How to apply this Side Effect....?

[BobGreenwade]

This is a little something I can't quite figure out how to build in game terms. It's for an upcoming article for Digital Hero, so I'll need it to be as kosher as possible.

 

I have this helmet, an ancient artifact, with a variety of sensory abilities as well as defensive properties. The thing is, whoever wears it also suffers a gradual deterioration of personality -- somewhat like Gollum and the One Ring (though not quite that gradual).

 

The ways I can think of to do this are as follows (roughly in order of how "rules-kosher" I think they are):

 

1. Buy Mind Control as a Side Effect for the Armor Power.

 

2. Buy Mind Control as a Power for the helmet, Self Only.

 

3. Buy Psychological Limitations as an OIF, with Gradual Effect.

 

Some of this is covered in the rules FAQ -- especially the last item, which is exactly why it's the last item (see the FAQ for more). I would like to see what Herodom Assembled thinks, though.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

Some of the answer may depend on how gradual the effect is, and how great the deterioration of personality becomes. If it's a major deterioration you'll need a large Mind Control (perhaps with Gradual Effect) that may be too large for a Side Effect; perhaps a small one that's Cumulative would be better. But because Mind Control has to declare the level of effect you're going for when the attack is made, it isn't really set up to reflect a gradual change.

 

I hate to say it, Bob, because it's so often the course of last resort here, but I really think a Mental Transform is the way to go for this. Since partially Transforming a character is supposed to have a visible result before the Transform takes full effect, you have a justification for letting increasing signs of personality change creep into the victim's behavior.

 

As for the Side Effects approach: assuming that it's important that this ability be costed into the helmet, IMO that's a valid tack to take; but personally as a GM I'd be wary of making it part of a Persistent Power like Armor so that it's continuously affecting the character, unless the Armor is a Focus (which I'm guessing is the case here) which the character frequently takes off. If the helmet is worn all the time the effect is likely to be not all that "gradual."

 

Unless there's a pressing reason not to, I'd either chalk the deterioration up to GM's fiat, or else write it up as a game mechanic but not put it into the cost of the helmet, since it's not providing any benefit to the character wearing it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

OK, I'm going to answer a question with a question. Does the deterioration take place based on ownership of the object, or use of the object?

 

If the latter, I like the idea of a cumulative mind control side effect. Each time the objhect's powers are accesed, the user gets a little closer to the "target" personality. If he keeps using it, the personality shift gets harder to resist (more -1's to the ego roll). This is a bit of a fudge in that Cumulative normally sets its level at the outset, but big deal - it's a side effect so it doesn't have to perfectly accord with the Mind Control power to be workable.

 

I would also consider defining some "fade rate" for the cumulative points, for example perhaps 5 points fade each day, to allow the effects of the MC to gradually fade if the object's powers aren't used for a period of time.

 

If the intent is simple ownership causing deterioriation, perhaps this is a simple "game fiat" that the object automatically exerts some number of cumulative MC dice per day.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

OK' date=' I'm going to answer a question with a question. Does the deterioration take place based on ownership of the object, or use of the object? [/quote'] On its use -- specifically, wearing the helmet.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

On its use -- specifically' date=' wearing the helmet.[/quote']

 

So just wearing it, rather than using the powers. That would suggest a typical "side effect" won't do the trick. However, you mentioned defensive powers, so these presumably would be activated whenever the helmet is worn. What about a fairly large Side Effect computed with "gradual effect" in that it takes place over the course of a full day, and on the basis the side effect can only happen once per day. Take the helmet off, and no further side effect takes place until it's worn again. Logically, this reduces the value of the Side Effect limitation, but if the side effect itself is substantial, there should still be some limitation.

 

As an aside, how critical is it to stat out the value of the limitation? Is someone actually paying for the helmet?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

As an aside' date=' how critical is it to stat out the value of the limitation? Is someone actually paying for the helmet?[/quote'] It's not vitally critical at all -- and no, nobody's actually paying for the helmet. Right now I have the side effect written as something completely separate from the helmet's Powers, which is what I gather to be the "official" way to do this, but feedback on alternative methods would be very welcome.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

I honestly seeing this falling completely under Gameplay instead of Rules. My old GM loved to do this kind of thing with ancient artifacts and I don't think he once ever actually built the side-effect into the item itself but simply role-played out the effects as the artifact was being used.

 

Of course, in that game it was generally known that all artifacts had some form of mental side effect, shift or deterioration associated with simply using the item, or possessing in some cases. Since all artifacts and particularly strongs magics had this issue it was no longer a limitation on the items, but part of them ... and never needed to be "pointed out" as it were.

[Farkling]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

I don't have my books handy (long sad depressing story)

but I will give you my rules of thumb from Storytelling....

 

Write the helm up with the Side Effect limitation included, and the Side Effect is not rated in "dice" or "time of usage" , Seperately write up a "sample" low level cumulative transform to be used for it if computation is necessary. If I remember right, the Side Effect limitation includes AP ratings to be involved in the Side Effect creation.

 

As the transform "accumulates" it will apply penalties to EGO rolls that contradict the psych lim of the magic hat.

 

But I would just do it as a "gimme" in most cases. The write up would be for use against the "rules lawyer" and he doesn't play with us. MY preferred method is to tack it on as appropriate valued psych/phys limitations related to the AP of the Side Effect on the power.

 

Side Effect: Wielder of "Bloodsword of Clan Anthalia" acquires the Psych Lim: Hatred of Demons (15, U, T), and Distinctive Feature: Demonbane (10, small group, requires demonic magic or senses) for so long as he wields or possesses the sword.

Note that the character can make an EGO roll to resist/reduce the compulsion. He might need to push his EGO, which costs END, which means eventually (like Frodo) he will give in and fail the rolls.

 

If I was building a One Ring type of artifact, I might add a low level penetrating transform to slowly add these alterations to the character. "heee smeeeellls of the ssssword Castor, we must bring him to lorrrrd morrrrninnnngstarrrrrr" In my book, slow corruption is best played, not imposed.

 

More than you wanted I imagine...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

Reading the more recent comments, it appears this comes down to either a cumulative mind control or a transform, either of which would be resisted with ego rolls. Either one would fit the bill.

 

The real problem is that the mechanics are secondary to the effect. If you have a good player, he'll role play the effects. If not, he'll be looking for ways around it regardless of the mechanical construct. Some players will get into the role play aspect, and others won't, so it will succeed or fail based on the person playing the character affected by the side effects.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

I'm agree with Hugh, eventually it comes down to Role-Playing the idea out, whether or not the mechanic are built into the item in question.

 

So it really comes down to how much time you want to spend trying simulate this with game mechanics. I'd go with a Mental Transform myself.

[zornwil]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

If the focus itself inflicts this and that is independent of doing anything other than wearing it, I suggest the focus itself has an Independent power, possibly/probably Uncontroleld Continuous, that is either Mental Transform or Mind Control (I'm not quite sure which but do lean towards the former if the person remains changed permanently), Trigger by being worn, the turning off of the Uncontrolled Continuous attack being the removal of the helmet, though any sort of Transform effects of course linger, just the attack does not proceed when the helmet is off. Or suit to taste, of course.

 

Re the gradual effect, you could either use that Gradual limitation, I'm not sure of an altenative or even this one, not having my book here at work.

[Farkling]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

On Game Mechanics

 

Gradual Effect versus Cumulative::

 

Gradual Effect will slowly apply a large attack. It is not really designed with "modifier applications" as the gradual ..um... gradiates. There would also be some people who could shrug off the total effect of the attack unless it was HUGE.

 

A small cumulative mental transform, perhaps with penetration, would gradually corrupt anybody...AND transform is built with "inflictment modifiers" for gradual transformations....

 

That's the difference I see mechanics wise.

 

Also...Transform is a permanent change, until the "condition" to heal is met. You could actually just use the normal healing rate. It is also a natural and complete change. Mind Control is imposed, and cannot destroy/erase personality/memory, it can only temporarily (although a LONG temporarily can be built) change/suppress it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

Farkling sums up the Mind Control/Transform differences. I think a lot comes down to how fast you want this to go away when the pobject isn't there any more. Mind Control should dissipate fairly quickly once the object isn't exerting further control (and breakout rolls are getting time bonuses).

 

Absent a limitation on the Transform, such as setting "away from object for 3 days" as the healing condition, the effects will take some time to fade.

[pinecone]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

I'd build it as a transform, that heals normally so if you just Stop wearing the thing you slowly get better...dosen't Transform have a Gradual modifier that alows incrimental changes? If so them the slow change both to and back is easy to model...I'd throw in IPE defined as the wearer dosn't notice any change in him/her self.......(or considers it an improvement)......

[BobGreenwade]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

Thanks for everyone's input. With your help, I now have this worked out.

 

When you see the finished product (a Star Hero scenario -- not the Rigellian article, which should be in one of the next two issues), you'll see what I've been up to on this, and probably understand what I've gone through.

[Gary]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

You're allowed to take Character Disadvantages as side effects. So all you need is to assign as many points of Psych lims, Physical lims, Distinctive Features, Hunteds, and Enraged/Berserks as needed to fulfil the side effect.

[Farkling]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

ah, but if you want permanent corruption to set in (like with the One Ring) you need a mechanic for the rules lawyers. Because technically those disadvantages would go away when the object was removed.

[Gary]

Re: How to apply this Side Effect....?

 

ah' date=' but if you want permanent corruption to set in (like with the One Ring) you need a mechanic for the rules lawyers. Because [i']technically[/i] those disadvantages would go away when the object was removed.

 

 

Nope, those disads last as long as an equivalent amount of body damage would last. If the character takes 100 pts worth of side effects, those disads last as long as it would take the character to normally heal 100 body. And I don't think regeneration applies to this.