Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

[Dr. Confoundo]

One of my players is one of those guys who some GMs dread: though he has only played the game for a few sessions, he has proceeded to take apart every mechanic in the rulebook, looking for ways to tweak and cut points. (FYI, he does this for every game we play; D&D, City of Heroes, Frag!, whatever... so it comes as no big surprise that he'd do it in the game that is the king of the rules loophole. He's just one of those guys who likes to math out everything.) I've had quite a rough time trying to hash out his character with him, because every time he gives me a version, I need to make a dozen changes to make it workable, then he changes his view of the character, and we start all over again. So now we come to Version 8.0:

 

[some background to get started: Born in an dystopic future where Superhumans have become fascist warlords lording their powers over the unpowered masses, his character was sent back to the past (our present) to stop the future from coming true. When he arrived, armed with future tech, martial training, and a wrist computer for info, he decided that his best bet was to become what he hated in order to get to the problem - he became a Superhuman.]

 

What the player has decided on for this version is a Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit - able to analyze and suppress the powers of any Superhuman he chooses, be the powers Magical, Mutation, High-tech, whatever.

 

So what we are looking at (and I am doing this without my book, so forgive the math) is a two-fold mechanic: Analyzing and Supression (or Drain, we haven't decided which)

 

Analyze: His computer has a whole suite of Analyze skills, from a basic Analyze Superpowers, to more precise Analayze Magic, Mutation, Technology, (basically all of the possible origins). Asuming he has never encountered a villian (and has no info on them), his first action will be to Analyze Superpowers, allowing him to narrow down which subtype powers the villian (for example, Mutation); then he will use his secondary Analyze skills to determine the extent and ability of his specific power set (for example, a Mutant psionicist).

 

Supression (or Drain): Now that he knows which origin and power set the target has, he can move to mechanic two... a multipower of Adjustment powers to reduce (or eliminate) the powers, one by one. For example (and without worrying about active/real points or DCs), one slot in the multipower might be a 5d6 Drain vs. Magical Powers, another a similar Drain vs. Mutant Powers, and so on. All would be able to affect any single power of that specific Special Effect, one at a time.

 

This brings me to my questions:

 

1) Would you GMs allow this? It's a lot of work, but due to active point caps, he really won't be able to do too much power adjustment, especially after having to spend two turns fine tuning his Supression Unit (letting the computer make two Analyze rolls back to back).

 

2) I know that it's a +2 Advantage to allow Adjustment Powers to affect all powers of a given Special Effect, but what about any single power of a given SFX? He could Adjust the mutant's Flight one turn, and his EB the next, but not all at once (even if the mutant bought it in an 'EC: Mutant Powers'). What kind of Limitation would you use?

 

3) How many different slots would he need in his Adjustment multipower to enable him to cover all of the supers he meets? Anybody with natural powers (like Martial Artists or Detectives) should be largely immune to his Adjustments, as would any Aliens. What is left? Magic, Mutation, Technological... Would he also need Radiation powers, and Fire/Heat, Cold, etc?

 

Thanks for any input!

[Jhamin]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

Skipping to your numbered questions:

 

1) Sort of. I'm willing to buy that a plot device computer from the future can supress powers. So we are good there. What I'm less ok with is the idea that in the future he comes from there is a computer that can supress anything. Do they really have that level of control over magic there? Or psionics? Are mutant powers that well understood?

 

If it were my player, I would create a set of special effects he can and can not supress. I would personally go with technology (the easy one), mutant abilities (ample presendence in X-Men), and psionics (super tech worlds often find way to deal with psis in fiction).

I would not personally not allow training or inborn alien powers to be suppressed. I would also not allow magic (if there really is no difference between Plate +5 & Iron Man armor why bother with special effects at all?), or abilites created through genetic or chemical manipulation (how do you supress stuff like that with a computer?)

 

2) When you buy supress you buy it against one power that cannot be changed. Having the ability to change which power of an effect you are affecting is a +1/4 advantage . See P75 of FREd.

 

3) If he can really affect almost anyone, I would buy variable special effect for the suppress. If he can only alter 2-3 special effects I would get him the smaller version.

If he goes with a multipower he needs to buy a slot for each special effect you agree on. This is where campaign limits come in. If Radioactive Spider bites and mutant genes are considered different, he will need a slot for both. If they both fall under "generated by the body" then he will only need one.

If he needs to affect everyone, you have to figure out how many origins there are in your world & tell him to buy a slot for each.

[Vorsch]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

A computer from the future that supresses all powers, not a snowballs chance in hell.

 

I hope hes not your best friend cos this players sounds like bad news.

 

Be warned.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

A computer from the future that supresses all powers, not a snowballs chance in hell.

 

I hope hes not your best friend cos this players sounds like bad news.

 

Be warned.

 

Oh, I know he's bad news... See the first paragraph of my post.

 

Well, he's not *bad* news, per se... He's just kind of frustrating news. Vaguely annoying news, perhaps. How about 'news thats not really that bad, but I like him as a person, so I'm willing to do a little bit of extra work'.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

In response to Jhamin:

 

1) Those were my feelings as well, but I may be a little more lenient regarding Altered characters. Take the traditional Marvel characters, for example: without that category, I wouldn't be able to affect Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America, Daredevil's senses, etc. I'll have to think on it more.

 

2) For some reason, I totally missed that part of the Variable Effect thing. I guess I wasn't paying attention or something. Thanks for pointing out something that should have been completely obvious to me.

 

3) Would Variable Special Effects be allowed on Supress to enable the power to affect anything? The FAQ implies that it would not.

 

Thanks for your input!

[Jhamin]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

In response to Jhamin:

 

1) Those were my feelings as well, but I may be a little more lenient regarding Altered characters. Take the traditional Marvel characters, for example: without that category, I wouldn't be able to affect Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America, Daredevil's senses, etc. I'll have to think on it more.

 

In my opinion characters like that don't really have a common power source. They each have to be dealt with seperatly. If you have created a spray to negate Super-Soldier serium, great. It won't help you against someone whose powers come from radioactive spider venom or was standing too close to a gamma bomb. It gets dangerous to create a category called "other" then allow people to affect them like they are all the same.

 

Your milage may vary, but I personally would not allow it.

 

3) Would Variable Special Effects be allowed on Supress to enable the power to affect anything? The FAQ implies that it would not.

 

You are quite correct. My bad.

 

Your multipower solution is probably the way to go.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

This brings me to my questions:

 

1) Would you GMs allow this? It's a lot of work, but due to active point caps, he really won't be able to do too much power adjustment, especially after having to spend two turns fine tuning his Supression Unit (letting the computer make two Analyze rolls back to back).

In short, no I wouldn't. Nothing wrong with the Powers or anything, but the concept wouldn't be allowed for overall balance reasons. If you wouldn't have any balance issues with a character able to Drain ANYTING then go for it. If you keep everything in a Multipower it shouldn't be too bad. There should be logical limits though. If he shouldn't be able to Drain the DEF of an ordinary rock or hunk of concrete, he shouldn't be able to Drain the DEF of character's with those SFX, regardles of whether or not they are mutant/magic/whatever.

 

2) I know that it's a +2 Advantage to allow Adjustment Powers to affect all powers of a given Special Effect, but what about any single power of a given SFX? He could Adjust the mutant's Flight one turn, and his EB the next, but not all at once (even if the mutant bought it in an 'EC: Mutant Powers'). What kind of Limitation would you use?

What Jhamin said.

 

3) How many different slots would he need in his Adjustment multipower to enable him to cover all of the supers he meets? Anybody with natural powers (like Martial Artists or Detectives) should be largely immune to his Adjustments, as would any Aliens. What is left? Magic, Mutation, Technological... Would he also need Radiation powers, and Fire/Heat, Cold, etc?

 

Thanks for any input!

If you really want him to be able to Drain ANYTHING, then you need a VPP. A Multipower isn't infinate and all encompasing enough.

 

As I said before, there should be some balancing issues. Only allow him slots to Drain stuff you feel he has the technology to actually Drain. If he should encounter something completely new, he shouldn't be able to affect it until it's analysed, categorized and research has been done on how to affect it (which would require him have those skills, or know someone with those skills). Of course, he could just be a human Sentinel with his computer figuring out everything for him, but then he should actually buy the Computer as a Follower then.

[zornwil]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

(snip)

 

This brings me to my questions:

 

1) Would you GMs allow this? It's a lot of work, but due to active point caps, he really won't be able to do too much power adjustment, especially after having to spend two turns fine tuning his Supression Unit (letting the computer make two Analyze rolls back to back).

 

As such? No. It sounds like there's no loopholes at all for the GM, or, if there are, he doesn't like them and will get upset whenever you say "oh, your power didn't work in this circumstance."

 

However, if you can control the amount of change and don't have to worry as he gains XPs and scales it up, perhaps it's workable. The main thing is to have some control over the situation, so if this really achieves it, cool. See more below.

 

2) I know that it's a +2 Advantage to allow Adjustment Powers to affect all powers of a given Special Effect, but what about any single power of a given SFX? He could Adjust the mutant's Flight one turn, and his EB the next, but not all at once (even if the mutant bought it in an 'EC: Mutant Powers'). What kind of Limitation would you use?

 

See below -

 

3) How many different slots would he need in his Adjustment multipower to enable him to cover all of the supers he meets? Anybody with natural powers (like Martial Artists or Detectives) should be largely immune to his Adjustments, as would any Aliens. What is left? Magic, Mutation, Technological... Would he also need Radiation powers, and Fire/Heat, Cold, etc?

 

Thanks for any input!

 

I would definitely make sure he gets that "natural" powers aren't going to be analyzed and stopped, I'm not so sure he gets that. To him "it's a power" I imagine. Also, if you're going to make him buy each type separately, then I'd create the "any power but one at a time" limitation as between "any power of SFX" and "all powers o SFX", I don't have the book so unsure what that is. Also, this should help control the power so I guess it's okay, and probably safe enough in your game.

 

I have a character somewhat similar. If he can extract samples from characters, he can do an analyze and determine their greatest power or ability or weakness sort of thing, based on their biochemistry. This seems to work okay, he has to get the sample in the first place, and beyond that it's a limited degree to which he can drain, usually centering on an EC or a particularly strong power.

[zornwil]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

In short' date=' no I wouldn't. Nothing wrong with the Powers or anything, but the concept wouldn't be allowed for overall balance reasons. If you wouldn't have any balance issues with a character able to Drain [i']ANYTING[/i] then go for it. If you keep everything in a Multipower it shouldn't be too bad. There should be logical limits though. If he shouldn't be able to Drain the DEF of an ordinary rock or hunk of concrete, he shouldn't be able to Drain the DEF of character's with those SFX, regardles of whether or not they are mutant/magic/whatever.

 

 

What Jhamin said.

 

 

If you really want him to be able to Drain ANYTHING, then you need a VPP. A Multipower isn't infinate and all encompasing enough.

 

As I said before, there should be some balancing issues. Only allow him slots to Drain stuff you feel he has the technology to actually Drain. If he should encounter something completely new, he shouldn't be able to affect it until it's analysed, categorized and research has been done on how to affect it (which would require him have those skills, or know someone with those skills). Of course, he could just be a human Sentinel with his computer figuring out everything for him, but then he should actually buy the Computer as a Follower then.

Dust Raven, one thing I would add though is that his MP concept helps limit this character. By nitpicking each type and making the PC buy a slot for each, he's definitely enforcing balance more than he can with a VPP. And I don't think this player is trustworthy with a VPP.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

Just an observation:

 

The character concept sounds like a warped reversal of an old comic character named OMAC (One Man Army Corps). He had a satalite/computer that could boost his abilities as needed from orbit in a similar manner.

 

I agree with others that the character should probably be limited in some way as to what meta-special effects his computer can affect like magic and psi.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

Of course, as is par for the course for this particular player, he has now decided that he doesn't want any of these Special Effects oriented Draining powers, and will instead buy a Speed Drain and an Entangle instead.

 

My head hurts.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

Of course, as is par for the course for this particular player, he has now decided that he doesn't want any of these Special Effects oriented Draining powers, and will instead buy a Speed Drain and an Entangle instead.

 

My head hurts.

Don't let him buy the Entangle.

 

No special reason. Just say it interfered with game balance and you don't see it fitting in with his concept. Allow a SPD Suppress though. In fact, suggest it. Say it costs half as much as Drain and works at range. Don't mention it costs END every Phase though. Let him find that out during game play.

[nexus]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

Personally, I wouldn't allow it, for the same reasons stated above. As an aside, I've never "gotten" this type of player. Whats the fun in being able to render 90 percent of your opponents helpless without any effort? Where the excitment? Where' the heroism? You're basically nothing but a bully and when your one trick fails, you're a target.

[Vorsch]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

I suspect this player will get very upset if his universal ( take out galactus ) computer fails to affect some one, he will then ditch the character and make someone with at least 24DC attacks.

 

Im serious

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: Computer Assisted Power Supression Unit?

 

I suspect this player will get very upset if his universal ( take out galactus ) computer fails to affect some one, he will then ditch the character and make someone with at least 24DC attacks.

 

Im serious

 

I think one of the reasons he did dump the idea is because I was trying to pin him down on what powers he would or wouldn't be able to affect. He was seeing that he wouldn't be able to affect everyone, and decided against it.

 

As for the 24DC attacks, luckily for me I gave him an Active Point Cap to think about.