Mecha Modeling Advice

[Michael Hopcroft]

I was wondering if anyone had any luck modeling decent mecha for anime-stylre HERO games?

 

I'm trying to figure out how to do a Gundam-style spaceworthy combat mecha that wouldn't be outrageously abusive to the system.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

You could simply build them as Vehicles, state they are humanoid and go from there. No reason to restrict them in any way, especially since most Anime Mecha can all but do jumping jacks (actually, they do just that in the Patlabor TV Series... I digress).

 

Best bet - since Anime Mecha act almost exactly like a person build them the same way you would a normally powered character using Vehicle Rules (since they are) and go from there.

 

Multiform is good for transforming mecha since they normally change abilities dramatically. They probably won't be all that expensive when all said and done. But if you want to make sure they fit withing a specific power range limit the points (I could probably build a good Gundam with 350 points) and possibly the Active Points on powers.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Assuming you haven't seen them before, these discussion board threads may be of help to you, Michael:

 

First up, from the fertile mech-making brain of our own NuSoard Graphite, comes the Wing Gundam Zero, as requested.

 

NuSoard also provided these fine writeups from the Robotech/Macross series: the Veritech Fighter, Veritech Hovertank, and the Cyclone motorcycle.

 

Finally, here's Logan Darklighter's interpretation of the Phoenix from Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets, with some additional boardmate input.

 

Note that while a couple of these are written under 4E, the differences as pertains to vehicles are pretty small.

 

Hope these help.

[Lord Liaden]

Another Gundam

 

Again, courtesy of NuSoard Graphite:

 

-------------------------------------

 

GP01: Zephyranthes Full Vernian type

Size: 9 (18.2 meters tall)

Mass: 74 tons

STR: 60 (lift 100 tons/Damage 12D6)

DEX: 21 CV: 7

SPD: 4

BOD: 23

KB: -9

Size mod: -6

DEF: 16 hardx1

 

Movement systems

Walking: 20"(x2) 160"/turn 96kph/60mph

Leaping: 16"(x4) 32m/128m booster assisted

Flight: 47"(X4) 752"/turn 451kph/280mph 3.16G's of accelleration

 

Sensors

Screens: +2PER: +16Rmod: IR/UV modes

Radar: +3PER: +22Rmod: 360^ sensing.

Laser Rangefinder: +1OCV w/ranged +2Rmod

 

Communications

Laser Comms: Mind Link w/1 target at a time

Radio Comm: High Range Radio: +2PER: +28Rmod (range 1000km range)

 

Systems

Sheild: +3DCV vs attacks: DEF18hardx1: Body 15

Life Support: 50 man hours: No need to breathe, immune to heat/cold/vaccum/high pressure

Verniers: +8 w/turn mode

Core Fighter: See below

Power plant: 2045Kw power plant: REC 50: END 250

 

Weapons

60mm Head vulcans: +1OCV: +4Rmod: 4D6+1K: +0StunX: 1625hex range: Autofire-10: Ammo Type-APDS(AP): X2 cannons

 

.64MW Beam Sabres: +1OCV: 4 1/2D6K: StunX+1: STRmin-45: End-14/attack: Plasma based(APx2): 5 1/2D6K w/STR: Sabres X2

 

XBR-BOWA M-82A beam rifle: +1OCV: +6Rmod: 6D6K: +1StunX: End=18/attack: 4500hex range:

 

Core Fighter

Size: 6

Mass: 22.6 Tons

STR: 40

DEX: 18: CV 6

SPD: 5

Size mod: -4

Kb: -6

DEF: 16 hardx1

 

Movement

Flight: 96"(x8) 3840"/turn 2304kph/1431mph Mach 2.13 8.1G's of Accelleration

 

Sensors: Same as GPO1 above.

 

Systems:

Life Support

Verniers: +6 levels vs turn mode

 

Weapons:

Beam guns: +1OCV: +2Rmod: 4 1/2D6K(AP): StunX+1: 3500hex range: guns X2 note: these are the beam sabres when its combined with the GP01. They convert to beam guns when the Corefighter ejects

 

Gundam Mobile Suits are pretty barebones mecha. At least, up till ZGundam they are. As you can see, they are sensors light, having only the barest of necesary systems. I guess they are efficient for mass production that way.

 

Pretty self explainatory. The Beamswords do a significant amount of damage. Against Zaku they are terrible weapons, considering your average Zaku has a DEF of about 12 (not hard) The beam rifle does good damage vs Lunar Titanium (DEF 12-14) and even performs well against Gundarium (Def 15+)

 

The Full Vernian, as this variant is known as, is very agile compared to other Mobile Suites of the time (average Dex is 14 I think) and it shows.

[Brett]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I have never been very interested in vehicles, even though I do have the 5th edition vehicle books.

 

I may be confused about something from this Gundam writeup. Does the "+10 CV" on all the weapons mean + 10 to the combat value of attacks made with this weapon? With a +10 to attack and a -6 to DCV for the size penalty, how could they ever miss each other in combat?

 

Brett

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

There's a fair bit of discussion on mecha in The Ultimate Vehicle -- in fact, that book started life (that is, in my own conception) as The Ultimate Giant Robot.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I have never been very interested in vehicles, even though I do have the 5th edition vehicle books.

 

I may be confused about something from this Gundam writeup. Does the "+10 CV" on all the weapons mean + 10 to the combat value of attacks made with this weapon? With a +10 to attack and a -6 to DCV for the size penalty, how could they ever miss each other in combat?

 

Brett

 

Ah, of course: took me a minute to realize what you were seeing. Those notes don't say "+10 CV"; it's "+1 OCV".

 

You just mistook a capital "O" for the numeral "0". Easy to do, especially when the characters aren't separated by a space.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I wish I had a Hero Designer file for that Gundam laid out here. I'm sure it would help.

 

Of course, one interesting question is whether you make Amuro Rey pay all those points for the Gundam. In point-based systems, one of the big bugaboos for me has been when a character has to pay points for the mecha he is issued by the govnewrment or organization he is fighting for and when he doesn;t.

 

For example, Heero Yuy starts out Gundam Wing (try showing that one on television today) with a very powerful mecha, the Wing Gundam. There is only one of its kind. Eventually Heero self-destriucts it to keep it fromf alling into the hands of Oz but evertually gets his hands on other mecha, which turn out to be just as powerful (and one of which, when armed with thre Zero System targeting device, nearly drives him mad).

 

As i siad, just try showing Gundam Wing on American television today. the heroes are fighting for a just 9in their eyes cause), but many of their actions are remeniscent of terrorists. Their intial goal was to come to Earth at random points and detsroy military targets of the Earth government -- which were not easily distringuishable from civilian targets. Later on they attempt a decaptiation strike againstv the leadership of Oz, the organization they have sworn to defeta, but end up killing the only people in the Earth government who wanted peace with the Colonies due to an Oz deception. The moral abiguities range from the obvious to the subtle, bbut it's hard to find heroes or villains in GW -- just gifted idnivuals caught in a targic cycle of hatred and revenge.

[tgrandjean]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Of course the decision on whether to charge character points really does depend on the series.

 

In MS Gundam, 0080, 0083, Zeta (and Double Zeta), and MS Team, the mecha are military. Other than for rough balance purposes, costs are not an object. In addition I'd add Gundam SEED, F-90, and Sentinal. I have no idea about Gundam O, Char's Counterattack could go either way, F-91 I'm trying to forget, and a couple of other series might have slipped my mind.

 

In Gundam Wing and G Gundam however, the mecha are more super heroic. Each tends to have its own individual abilities and style. In this case, it's more appropriate to charge points (and provide a 'large' pool to do so).

As an odd side note, while Reana Peacecraft may not pilot a Gundam, she does have virtually unlimited resources and contacts. Admittedly, she'd probably be better off as a sponsor. =P

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Of course the decision on whether to charge character points really does depend on the series.

 

In MS Gundam, 0080, 0083, Zeta (and Double Zeta), and MS Team, the mecha are military. Other than for rough balance purposes, costs are not an object. In addition I'd add Gundam SEED, F-90, and Sentinal. I have no idea about Gundam O, Char's Counterattack could go either way, F-91 I'm trying to forget, and a couple of other series might have slipped my mind.

 

In Gundam Wing and G Gundam however, the mecha are more super heroic. Each tends to have its own individual abilities and style. In this case, it's more appropriate to charge points (and provide a 'large' pool to do so).

As an odd side note, while Reana Peacecraft may not pilot a Gundam, she does have virtually unlimited resources and contacts. Admittedly, she'd probably be better off as a sponsor. =P

 

Relena would be interesting to write up -- she is Hunting Lady Yune at one point in the series, later on she takes on the Social Limitation: In Love with Heero Yuy (which by the time of Endless Waltz might be reciprocated, although given Heero's upbringing he is not used to expressing positive emotions and may need considerable "lightening up").

 

No series has caused more non-canonical yaoi fanfiction to sport than Gundam Wing. The combination of extremely attractive male leads and some relatively weak female foils for some of them has led many writers and artists to assume that several, if not all, of the Gundam pilots are actually homosexual. There are other imterpretations, but the idea seems to have caught on. (There is reason to believe that one of the Gundam poilots, Quarte (who pilots the Sandrock Gundam) was actually meant to be gay by the series' creators.)

 

It is also inetersting to note that many characters change "sides" over the course of the series. The above-mentioned Maly Une is the most prominent exampole,m beginning the series as a ruthless staretgist and assassin for Oz and ending up an advocate for peace. Charatcer who should be mortal enemeis often find themselves aiding each other.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

whether or not to charge the characters points for the Gundam (or any mech in a mech based game) is up to the GM entirely.

 

But it depends heavily on how you handle the mechs in the game and at what point level you want to the characters.

 

Most Mech RPGs will have normal humans as the main characters (possibly gifted or at least talented but otherwise normal) and should probably be built on 150 or even 125 points. A good heroic modern campaign can easily fit 150pt Hero's in it. At that level you shouldn't make them pay for the Mech's they use as the Mech's are mostly Plot Points (big ones, but still, just plot). They most likely are organization issued (gov't if simulating Gundam, corporation if you're playing something like Armored Core) and the GM should hand them write-ups of the Mecha.

 

If you want to bump the points up to 250 and make the characters pay for the mech (100pts into Vehicle is a good baseline since that will give a 250 pt character a 300pt vehicle) then they should get some design input - possibly a choose from these lists of abilities or even total freeform design.

 

My input is if you plan on letting the players have some input on the design of the mech's they are playing then charging them for the mech, in whole or in part, is legitimate and should be acceptable. But the point level for the characters should reflect that cost being added in. If you don't plan on letting the players take part in the design process and plan on handing the mechs to them built and they will be working for someone as the campaign guideline then you shouldn't charge the characters for them. At least not initially, as soon as they start to modify the mecha then having them put points into it is fair - realizing that the Mech is now The Characters Mech and not "borrowed" from the parent organization at this point.

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Relena would be interesting to write up -- she is Hunting Lady Yune at one point in the series, later on she takes on the Social Limitation: In Love with Heero Yuy (which by the time of Endless Waltz might be reciprocated, although given Heero's upbringing he is not used to expressing positive emotions and may need considerable "lightening up").

 

No series has caused more non-canonical yaoi fanfiction to sport than Gundam Wing. The combination of extremely attractive male leads and some relatively weak female foils for some of them has led many writers and artists to assume that several, if not all, of the Gundam pilots are actually homosexual. There are other imterpretations, but the idea seems to have caught on. (There is reason to believe that one of the Gundam poilots, Quarte (who pilots the Sandrock Gundam) was actually meant to be gay by the series' creators.)

 

It is also inetersting to note that many characters change "sides" over the course of the series. The above-mentioned Maly Une is the most prominent exampole,m beginning the series as a ruthless staretgist and assassin for Oz and ending up an advocate for peace. Charatcer who should be mortal enemeis often find themselves aiding each other.

 

Yeah, that business with Lady Une threw more than a few curveballs during the

original series run on the Cartoon Network. I know they didn't have Newtypes

or anything similar in Gundam Wing (the mecha equivalent of Ronin

Warriors, to hear some of the anime fan community talk about it), but

at one point during the series, it looked like she was having a Newtype experi-

ence, at which point her personality apparently changed for the better.

 

As for Heero Yuy... Man, if ever there was a character who'd make a great drink-

ing buddy for Golgo 13, this kid would be it. Talk about your absolutely ruthless

b******...

 

Major Tom

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

As for Heero Yuy... Man, if ever there was a character who'd make a great drink-

ing buddy for Golgo 13, this kid would be it. Talk about your absolutely ruthless

b******...

 

Someone wrote a fan story about how Relena finally had to ORDER Heero to marry her to be an obedient solider. he ended up follwing Relena's orders explicitly in all areas, but training their daughter in commando tactics....

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Gotta love mecha.

 

I'm surprised that Steve isn't interested in doing a new Mecha genre book (well, maybe because it has limited appeal I guess) cause I did a search for "mecha" the other day and ended up with around 4 or 5 pages worth of discussions on the subject.

 

In any case, modeling mecha using the UV is pretty simple. Just follow the guidelines in the book and you're pretty okay. Though, I've come up with a lot of specific models for various weapons and effects over the years that I prefer to use over the suggestions in The Ultimate Vehicle.

 

Here are some suggestions and guidelines that I use myself:

 

First and foremost, for military-based mecha games like Gundam or Macross, don't worry about the point cost of the mecha or ships you are designing. Design them to perform as close to the source material as possible. Paying attention to the point costs will only give you headaches. There's nothing wrong with keeping track of the point costs, but don't freak out if a vehicle costs well over 1000 character points. (Well, probably not for early Gundam or Macross, but later mecha might approach those point levels)

 

Second, Be consistant. Decide how to model certain technology and effects and stick to it. For example, if you decide to use Missile Deflection to model point defense equipment like the Phalanx, then use that method for all your vehicles and equipment. Violate this rule only to represent equipment which uses a completely different set of rules, like alien equipment or a significant technological upgrade. Consistancy is the key to making equipment feel like equipment in Hero, instead of it feeling like Superpowers.

 

Third, decide on an average. The first mecha you design should be a typical one for your campaign, then use this mecha as a basis for all the others you design. For a Gundam campaign, a good one to start with would be a GM or a Zaku. For Federation Mobile Suites, the GM would be the basis. For Zion MS, the Zaku should be the basis. After designing those, design all the other MS in relation to the base mecha. For example the Gun Cannon, while not as agile as the GM is much stronger/tougher and does far more damage with its twin cannons. Thus you should give the Gun Cannon less Dex than the GM, but more STR, Body and Def. The Gundam RX-78 is superior to the GM in all categories, so using the GM's characteristics as a guideline, you can make the Gundam an obviously superior mecha. Once the base mecha is created, the rest should fall right into place in a reasonably short amount of time.

 

Next, if you plan to use hex maps to keep track of mecha movement, decide on a scale. 1 hex=2m is a bit small scale for mecha combat. My suggestion is 1 hex=20 meters. This is a scale of x10, which means you need to divide your mechas movement by a factor of 10 to get the upscaled movement. Example, a mecha that has a flight movement of 60"(x4) and a ground movement of 30"(x2) has a flight movment of 6"(24") and 3"(6") when using the x10 scale on the hex map. Round off to the nearest whole number if the math gives you a decimal of course.

 

Next you must decide on the complexity of your designs. How much to include in the writeups goes a long way to modeling the feel of the mecha. If its too complex, it may slow down the pace of the game as player look over their mechas extensive sheets to figure out what they want to do, so for a fast, action-packed campaign, keep the mecha stats-lite. For example, in most Gundam campaigns, you only need to write up the basic characteristics of the Mobile Suits, their sensors, defenses (which is mainly Defense and/or Armor) movement modes (generally just flight, running and leaping) and weapons. Some few MS might have ECM or unique equipment (like Incom Bits) but these are rare. This will keep the game running smoothly and allow the combats to pretty much stay in genre. Some equipment can be assumed and don't need to be written up (searchlights, ejection seats, cd-players etc) unless they tend to be an exceptionaly important part of the game and disabling the system could cripple the vehicles performance somehow (Lights might be disabled in an area where flying blind is exceptionaly dangerous)

 

Other than the guidelines above, the rest all comes down to Roleplaying and the GM's ability to present the game in such a way that it "feels" right. My only suggestion for this is for potential mecha GM's to saturate themselves in the appropriate type of show before running the game. Trust me, this helps immensely.

 

If there's anything specific you (or anyone) needs help with or want to discuss specific models of powers and abilities in relation to mecha, let me know, we'll get some discussion going.

[Little Ray]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I have my own questions for this board.

 

I am designing a military giant robot type mecha. Like most military equipment they are subject to modifications, upgrade kits, applique armor, etc. They are supposed to be extremely adaptable and able to fight anywhere... These mecha do service as everything from tanks on the ground to interceptors, space superiority, and anti-shipping strike vehicles in space.

 

1. The mecha has only a small interal weapon (a light VRF gauss gun for anti-missile / anti personnel work); the rest of the weapons are either carried or mounted on hard points. The weapons are pretty obvious: just build them as vehicles, with no movement. This gives the weapons, shields, vernier pods, ECM pods, drop tanks, etc., Def, Body, etc. I think that might even work better than just buying them as powers on the mecha (if someone has a better idea, i would LOVE to hear it!!!!).

How would you go about representing hardpoints, though? I figure there are four of them: two large hardpoints on the torso/backpack and two smaller ones on the arms / shoulders.

 

2. One of the weapons is a "cluster" warheard. When it gets to the target area, it disperses a bunch of submunitions; in the fractions of a second available, the submunitions try to acquire targets and detonate. The result is supposed to be an AP killing attack on the acquired target and blast for anything in vicinity. Since the actual device is a "SATuration NUclear Cluster" (SATNUC - stolen from Ogre) the blast is not trivial. How would you model that? I was thinking an RKA AP attack PLUS an explosive attack, but I was wondering if anybody had a better idea.

 

3. What about explosive effects in space? Most of the explosive effect of a weapon is not transmitted in vacuum. Explosive weapons have to rely kinetic effect of shapnel or flechettes; nukes rely on radiation effects (heat, light, and EMP ARE radiation effects...). Would "Only in an atmosphere -1/4" be an appropriate modifier for explosions in a campaign that included lots of space combat? Is there a better way to model this?

 

Thanks!

[Intrope]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I have my own questions for this board.

 

I am designing a military giant robot type mecha. Like most military equipment they are subject to modifications, upgrade kits, applique armor, etc. They are supposed to be extremely adaptable and able to fight anywhere... These mecha do service as everything from tanks on the ground to interceptors, space superiority, and anti-shipping strike vehicles in space.

 

1. The mecha has only a small interal weapon (a light VRF gauss gun for anti-missile / anti personnel work); the rest of the weapons are either carried or mounted on hard points. The weapons are pretty obvious: just build them as vehicles, with no movement. This gives the weapons, shields, vernier pods, ECM pods, drop tanks, etc., Def, Body, etc. I think that might even work better than just buying them as powers on the mecha (if someone has a better idea, i would LOVE to hear it!!!!).

How would you go about representing hardpoints, though? I figure there are four of them: two large hardpoints on the torso/backpack and two smaller ones on the arms / shoulders.

I might try making each hardpoint a VPP, with Only change in a service depot (-1/2) and Limited Class: only technological weapons and sensor systems (-1/2) limitations on the control cost. Then, pay 5 pts to double the number of hardpoints.

2. One of the weapons is a "cluster" warheard. When it gets to the target area, it disperses a bunch of submunitions; in the fractions of a second available, the submunitions try to acquire targets and detonate. The result is supposed to be an AP killing attack on the acquired target and blast for anything in vicinity. Since the actual device is a "SATuration NUclear Cluster" (SATNUC - stolen from Ogre) the blast is not trivial. How would you model that? I was thinking an RKA AP attack PLUS an explosive attack, but I was wondering if anybody had a better idea.

That sounds like an AP RKA Area of Effect Unselective linked to an RKA Area of Effect. I might put both Area of Effect and Explosion on the second effect, and declare that the 'Explosion' reduces in units of the original area rather than by hexes. That way, a large area is exploded and a small area is hit with seeking missiles.

3. What about explosive effects in space? Most of the explosive effect of a weapon is not transmitted in vacuum. Explosive weapons have to rely kinetic effect of shapnel or flechettes; nukes rely on radiation effects (heat, light, and EMP ARE radiation effects...). Would "Only in an atmosphere -1/4" be an appropriate modifier for explosions in a campaign that included lots of space combat? Is there a better way to model this?

 

Thanks!

I don't think most munitions would actually be seriously reduced in a vacuum. As I understand it, most Anti-vehicle weapons don't depend on overpressure as it is (they either peirce the armor and inject liquid metal/explosives into the interior, or explode sending out metal bits to tear up the craft). A Flechette grenade would probably be more useful against space suited persons than a regular explosive design. Only nukes would be noticeably altered (most nuclear damage is overpressure as I understood it). However, nukes also put out massive radiation; as I understood it, this can be tuned and shaped to allow the nukes to be primarily a radiation weapon. This would probably be the perferred solution in space at any rate.

 

Hope that helps!

[Little Ray]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Sounds great!

 

Might have leave out the "only in service depot" for the hard points - a friendly unit can help mount and dismount weapons, reload, etc. These things are supposed to be scary in their versatiltiy - they can also do combat engineering and other support work... The pilots never get enough rest!

The VPP for different types of hardpoints sounds great - I was going to create an arsenal anyway and this matches them to correct type of hard point (was wondering how to do that, too!).

 

You're right about space nukes: most of them should just be RKAs (X-ray lasers), maybe with autofire (multiple beams from a single burst). Ground nukes are relatively normal weapons used when you need an area of effect (otherwise, drop a crowbar on 'em.). You don't use a third (or fourth) generation nuke-pumped X-ray lasers to bombard the planet; you don't use bombarment nukes against ships (unless they're sitting ducks...).

 

Need to learn more about links to build SATNUCs but it sounds promising.

 

Gonna be a lot of things blowing up out there - Action, Romance, Giant Robot Combat!

 

Thanks!

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're trying to design an anime-friendly

version of a Clan OmniMech (from BattleTech).

 

Major Tom

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're trying to design an anime-friendly

version of a Clan OmniMech (from BattleTech).

 

Major Tom

I;ve never understood why BattleTech has never ackowledged its anime roots (down to stealing some mecha designs from Superdimensional Fortress Macross that they later had to remove). Was anime a dirty word to FASA?

 

That's almost as bad as what they doid to the Doctor Who license. I bet the people who wrote that game didn;t even like the show.

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I;ve never understood why BattleTech has never ackowledged its anime roots (down to stealing some mecha designs from Superdimensional Fortress Macross that they later had to remove). Was anime a dirty word to FASA?

 

That's almost as bad as what they doid to the Doctor Who license. I bet the people who wrote that game didn;t even like the show.

 

They also swiped -- er, excuse me, I mean adapted -- several mecha

designs from Fang of the Sun Dougram (specifically, the Battlemaster,

Griffin, Goliath, and the Shadow Hawk; I think there were a couple

of other designs from that anime that were used as well, but I can't remember

which ones they were). These are the ones that, along with the designs that

were taken from Macross, are currently being redesigned and made into

minis by the folks at Iron Wind Metals under the "Unseen" classification.

 

Major Tom

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

I have my own questions for this board.

 

I am designing a military giant robot type mecha. Like most military equipment they are subject to modifications, upgrade kits, applique armor, etc. They are supposed to be extremely adaptable and able to fight anywhere... These mecha do service as everything from tanks on the ground to interceptors, space superiority, and anti-shipping strike vehicles in space.

 

Oh, I love such mecha. Versatility = fun+

 

1. The mecha has only a small interal weapon (a light VRF gauss gun for anti-missile / anti personnel work); the rest of the weapons are either carried or mounted on hard points. The weapons are pretty obvious: just build them as vehicles, with no movement. This gives the weapons, shields, vernier pods, ECM pods, drop tanks, etc., Def, Body, etc. I think that might even work better than just buying them as powers on the mecha (if someone has a better idea, i would LOVE to hear it!!!!).

How would you go about representing hardpoints, though? I figure there are four of them: two large hardpoints on the torso/backpack and two smaller ones on the arms / shoulders.

 

This is Easy and its not anything as complicated as using a VPP either.

 

Simply build Hardpoints as Extra Limbs: Limited Manipulation(-1/2). Then build all your weapons that fit on the Hardpoints as OAF. Outfitting the vehicle for any particular encounter is simply a matter of preferrence. There's no problem with this if the game is a Heroic one, just treat the vehicles like you do characters where they are outfitted with whatever weapons/equipment they need at the time. Point costs be damned.

 

2. One of the weapons is a "cluster" warheard. When it gets to the target area, it disperses a bunch of submunitions; in the fractions of a second available, the submunitions try to acquire targets and detonate. The result is supposed to be an AP killing attack on the acquired target and blast for anything in vicinity. Since the actual device is a "SATuration NUclear Cluster" (SATNUC - stolen from Ogre) the blast is not trivial. How would you model that? I was thinking an RKA AP attack PLUS an explosive attack, but I was wondering if anybody had a better idea.

 

Hmmm. The submunition should be an AP/AE-Radius-nonselective RKA (or Pen depending if the warhead is HEAP or HESH) If there is potential for multiple submunitions to aquire the same target (which would be likely in mecha combat, depending on the size of the mecha involved) then add Autofire to this. That means any target in the Area of effect (the area over which the munitions spread) has a chance of getting hit by submunitions. Now, all of the submunitions exploding at the same time (or close to it) saturates the area with an explosive effect, so I'd do an additional AE-Radius Energy Blast (to represent concussive effects) with the same area radius as the munitions spread, that way even if a mecha/vehicle manages to avoid getting hit by a munition directly, it gets caught in the concussive wave of all the munitions exploding...if its Nuclear in origin, then throw some EMP effects on there as well. (Dispel vs Electronic systems. If the mecha doesn't have enough EMP sheilding [Power Defense] to protect it, it could lose sensors, communications, life support etc)

 

3. What about explosive effects in space? Most of the explosive effect of a weapon is not transmitted in vacuum. Explosive weapons have to rely kinetic effect of shapnel or flechettes; nukes rely on radiation effects (heat, light, and EMP ARE radiation effects...). Would "Only in an atmosphere -1/4" be an appropriate modifier for explosions in a campaign that included lots of space combat? Is there a better way to model this?

 

well, if you are going to have a lot of missions in both Space and Atmosphere, then yeah that would be at leat a -1/4 limitation. Possibly more.

 

How I would do it is that i would write the Heat/Radiation effects of the nuke as RKA-AE-Radius and the concussive effects as EB-Explosion. I'd slap the limitation "Only in atmosphere" on the concussion...that way in space only the Heat-based RKA is effective.

 

Thanks!

 

No problem!

 

When you write this stuff up, post some examples.

 

We love to see writeups around here

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're trying to design an anime-friendly

version of a Clan OmniMech (from BattleTech).

 

Major Tom

.

 

I am thinking more of Armored Core than battletech from his description...

[Little Ray]

Re: Mecha Modeling Advice

 

Definitely Armored Core (modular mecha concept - not to mention really cool looking!).

Mixed with:

Gundam (space and ground combat - mecha land in drop ships or using a Starship Trooper type orbital drop)

Cattlecar, uh, Battlestar Galactica and Homeworld (giant colonizer with industrial capacity and frozen colonists and pursued by an Evil Empire)

 

With other bits and pieces that seem interesting.

 

But they are NOT looking for shining planet known as... Earth.