L. Marcus Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Well, it was a while ago, so time to actually do something that actually relates to Hero . . . I'm assembling a little magic system for my sort-of Sword & Sorcery/Low Fantasy campaign, an interresting little thing, if I may say so . . . I'd just like to know what you people think. The system's called Knot Magic, and basically the caster ties a certain knot and hey presto! Magic results. It is not a very highly regarded way of working magic, but it works, and Knot Magic practicioners are respected by the common folk. The Knotters, as they are known, can be found in just about every village; maybe a stable hand knows just the right knot to make the horses trust him, or a goodwife knows how to tie you good healing . . . The effects of the spells in Knot Magic are not large, and not very spectacular, so they are bought with a maximum of 20 Active Points, and no flashy stuff like fireballs and such are allowed. Each spell must take IIF Fragile (knotting material of opportunity; -1/2), Extra Time (full phase; -1/2), Concentration (-1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (both hands; -1/2), and Requires a Knot Magic Roll (-1/2), for a grand total of -2 1/4. Fading: This knot is a great aid in times of trouble; it helps you hide, either yourself or someone or something else. When the subject of the spell moves, the spell is broken, and it has to be recast if the caster wants to hide something again. +3 Skill Levels to Concealment, Usable By Others (+1/4), Uncontrolled (spell ends when subject moves; +1/2); 16 APts; Common Limitations (-2 1/4); 5 RPts. Knot Of Recuperation: A very useful knot, known and practiced in all Undermount. It helps the body's own healing work, and can relieve tiredness and fatigue. The subject can only benefit from the spell when lying down; if he stands, the enchantment is broken. +4 REC, Usable By Others (+1/4), Uncontrolled (spell ends when subject stands; +1/2); 14 APts; Common Limitations (-2 1/4); 4 RPts. Knot Of The North Star: The North Star, in Imperial tradition, is the source of all luck, and that is a fare of which you cannot have too much! This knot makes you lucky! 2d6 Luck, Usable By Others (+1/4), Uncontrolled (spell ends when at least one six is rolled; +1/2); 17 APts; Common Limitations (-2 1/4), Nonpersistent (-1/4); 5 RPts. Actually, I'm not perfectly happy about these spells. I don't like that the breaking condition (the Uncontrolled) - that's basically a limitation on the spell - ended up on the plus side, but I don't know how else to model that "when you do this, the spell breaks." Does anyone know where I go wrong? Well, that's about the gist of it. This system is mainly there for the flavour; a bit of hedge magic, that might come in handy. I doubt any of my players will want to play a Knotter, but one or two tricks up the sleeve has never harmed anyone. Except perhaps the focus of the tricks, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger3k Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I like the idea. It can add some character and color, and offer some RP possibilities. When I looked at the title, I thought of the quipa of the Inca - they used knotted strings to record information. You never know - somebody may use it (I keep putting little things like this in HD for my game, but most don't use them. Someday...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Very cool idea. I like it! It's the subtle uses of magic that people tend to forget. I once had a villian take out one of my characters through using magic to cause food poisoning... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Very cool idea. I like it! It's the subtle uses of magic that people tend to forget. I once had a villian take out one of my characters through using magic to cause food poisoning... Ouch . . . That must've hurt - your pride, if nothing else! I like the idea. It can add some character and color' date=' and offer some RP possibilities. When I looked at the title, I thought of the quipa of the Inca - they used knotted strings to record information. You never know - somebody may use it (I keep putting little things like this in HD for my game, but most don't use them. Someday...)[/quote'] Yeah, I like these little flavour things in the background. And btw, the quipa knottings is probably where this system comes from. That and the Celtic knot decorations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Actually, I'm not perfectly happy about these spells. I don't like that the breaking condition (the Uncontrolled) - that's basically a limitation on the spell - ended up on the plus side, but I don't know how else to model that "when you do this, the spell breaks." Does anyone know where I go wrong? Well, in Hero, there are many ways to achieve the same effect. I would have gone with Continuous Charges and then a limitation based on how likely difficult/annoying avoiding the ending condition turns out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Well' date=' in Hero, there are many ways to achieve the same effect. I would have gone with Continuous Charges and then a limitation based on how likely difficult/annoying avoiding the ending condition turns out to be.[/quote'] I thought about this, and didn't use it because with Charges you can only cast the spell so many times a day. But if the Charge was Recoverable . . . Hmmm . . . ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joen00b Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Very unique idea, I dig it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Very unique idea' date=' I dig it![/quote'] I thank you, kind sir! Keep it coming! Seriously, the Continuing Charges thing has got me thinking . . . And how much would a Limitation like Spell Breaks If Subject Moves be worth? I figure -1/4, since Concealment supposes that you're stationary, anyway . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! There's actually a precedent for this sort of thing in Norse magical tradition, sometimes called "rope magic" or "cord magic". Some spells were written up quite similar to yours for the 4E "Campaign Classic" supplement, Vikings, from ICE. I hope that news is encouraging; if it's disappointing, I'm sorry. I'm certain you came up with it on your own, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! There's actually a precedent for this sort of thing in Norse magical tradition' date=' sometimes called "rope magic" or "cord magic". Some spells were written up quite similar to yours for the 4E "Campaign Classic" supplement, [b']Vikings[/b], from ICE. Aha? Never heard of it . . . I think. But it was a long time ago that I read the sagas and the Edda . . . But I agree that it would fit the flavour of Norse mythology. I hope that news is encouraging; if it's disappointing, I'm sorry. I'm certain you came up with it on your own, though. Ah, no big deal. Great minds, and that . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I do know, however, that people carved runes well into the beginning of the 20th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Great idea! I really like magic that is more subtle and creative than the deendee fireballs etc. I do stuff like this all the time in my FH campaign (though not with knots, yet - I'll probably borrow this idea soon). And don't forget the Law of Double Nodulation: Tie the exact mirror image of a knot to Suppress/Dispel the original knot. Can anyone identify where I got that idea from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! Great idea! I really like magic that is more subtle and creative than the deendee fireballs etc. I do stuff like this all the time in my FH campaign (though not with knots' date=' yet - I'll probably borrow this idea soon).[/quote']Why, by all means! Go right ahead! Do you have any suggestions on improvements? I think I'll do the Continuing Charges thing in the final version, but do you have any other way? And don't forget the Law of Double Nodulation: Tie the exact mirror image of a knot to Suppress/Dispel the original knot. Hmmm . . . Can anyone identify where I got that idea from? Dunno, but it sounds like math . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I don't think you need the Uncontrolled at all. Concealment, REC, and Luck don't require END to use and are in a sense, already constant. Just a limitation -1/4 or -1/2 "Spell ends when you do X" or "Spell lasts only as long as you do X." As written, I might rule that the Luck one should only work once, since you didn't buy continuous. You might also take a look at the Lingering Advantage from FH. Perhaps these magical knots have a tendency to unravel after a minute or so... A few ideas that occur to me (but you'll have to work out the mechanics yourself): Knot of Freshness: Tie this knot in a piece of string around some food, and it will never spoil. Knots of Communication: Two strings must first be attuned to each other. You tie a knot in one, and the same knot appears in the other, miles away. This signals to your buddy that you need him. Different knots could signal different kinds of messages. (Mind Link, limited types of messages available). Knot of Contemplation: Tie this knot and display it to your enemy. He will stare at it trying to figure out how to untie it, giving you a chance to run away. (Mind Control, one command "stare intently at the knot", spell ends if you attack the target or directly endanger him.) Knot of Bolstering: This knot will temporarily strengthen inanimate objects that might otherwise break under strain of use. The rickety rope bridge won't hold your party's weight, but if you tie this knot, it can "borrow" the strength of the knot for as long as it holds. When the pursuing orcs reach the bridge, untie the knot. (Aid/Succor to BODY, objects only [perhaps only on objects made of rope, string, or similar materials]) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I don't think you need the Uncontrolled at all. Concealment' date=' REC, and Luck don't require END to use and are in a sense, already constant. Just a limitation -1/4 or -1/2 "Spell ends when you do X" or "Spell lasts only as long as you do X." As written, I might rule that the Luck one should only work once, since you didn't buy continuous. You might also take a look at the Lingering Advantage from FH. Perhaps these magical knots have a tendency to unravel after a minute or so...[/quote']Agreed on the Uncontrolled . . . I'll work on this during my vacation. And the Ending Limitations should be about that large, but I can't trust myself to pick the right amount . . . Ah, well. I'll know how wrong they are ater a few castings . . . GM's Fiat allows for backpaddling, right? And I think Luck is Persistent, so therefore 'automatically' Constant. I like that it will guaranteedly work at least once, and that the knot won't be a waste of thread. A few ideas that occur to me (but you'll have to work out the mechanics yourself): [snippety]I like these . . .They'll come in handy, I suspect. Knot of Freshness would be a Transform, perhaps? 1d6 Functional Transform, 'food to food that won't spoil' (standard effect). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! This kind of reminds me of a character from Lord of the Isles by David Drake. Some of the effects I remember were EDM, paralysis, mind control, and RKA. I am sure there were more but I don't remember them. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I really think this is a cool idea. Very nice. Here's a suggestion (I think this was mentioned, I know it was ... but maybe not in this way, I'm tired and my brain is melting). Limitation: Knot only works during "X" condition, I'd keep it at a -1/2 just in general and to be consistent. For the Knot of Fading - "Only works while standing still" Knot of Recuperation - "Only works while lying down" etc. Basically each knot has a condition under which it will work and if that condition is either not met or broken somehow the knot ceases to work. Other than that this really is neat-o. I need to add this kind of magic into my Fantasy games, low level magic of this nature is fun flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyst13 Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Re: Knot Another Magic System! I've totally been thinking about doing a knot-magic system in a steampunk campaign. I was inspired by contemporary mathematical explorations of knots. I also read Brian Greene's two books about string theory in which the fundamental qualities of the universe are determined by the way in which the superstrings are 'knotted'. I pictured my knot-magic system as being focused on teleportation and telekinesis. Essentially, it would be super-genius mathematicians manipulating the super-string fabric of the cosmos through a form of sympathetic magic. Toss in some smooth rubber-science to glide over logical gaps and it sounds pretty cool. It's knot really the same thing that you came up with, but I find it fascinating that we could independently develop two different magic systems based on tying knots. Magic would be so awesome if it were real! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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