In order to prevent Munchkinish...

[SuperBlue]

Okay, I'm working on a Gun-Toting Merc/Villain type.

 

She has a special device concealed under her trenchcoat that can teleport her her weapons into her hands as long as she's 1 KM away from her Van.

 

A freind told me to build it as a Multipower (each slot is one gun built as an OIF and the Multipower itself is built as an IIF). I think this is munchkinish as hell, and thought about this:

 

Teleporation 10" Megascale 1 KM, Guns only, IIF; Fixed Location

 

Or would I build the Van as having the Teleportation Power, chaning the Fixed Location to "Gun Transporter"

 

Best way to do this?

[Guest Kolava]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I agree with your friend. You need to reason from effect here, and if the Van is only going to be teleporting guns to you then it really isn't worth buying the "teleportation" power. Just leave teleportation as a special effect, and add a "can only change when 1 km from van" limitation to the multipower.

[Intrope]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

Well, what is the van actually doing here? Is the armory van a teleport platform, that can send a weapon from the van to the character? or is it a teleportation projector, that can teleport tagged weapons from any point in the radius to her?

 

I'm assuming the former is the case. In that case, buy them as OIHID, with an additional -0 or -1/4 limitation 'only within 1km of van' (If she's a completely urban character -0 is probably the right value; if she might be in the bush at some time, -1/4). Restrainable might also be appropriate, if the number of weapons in the van is limited (if the van has lots of guns, she can just whistle up a spare every time she's disarmed).

 

If it's the later, then in most cases no limitation is appropriate; it'd almost be the same as just having an RKA for the character, not through a focus.

[ghost-angel]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I agree, Muiltipower is the way to go with this.. the focus already takes care of the "can be taken away" issue with the guns so teleporting them to you, one at a time, is just a special effect.

 

A limitation on the Mutlipower "must be within 1km of Van" will simulate the need for the weapons be stored there.

 

This way the GM, through dramatic sense, can take the weapons away from your storage area as well as from on your person.

[philnicau]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

i must admit i don't like a pc getting points for the limitation "must be within 1km of van" 1Km is a very large area in a urban based campaign, i would prefer a gadgetery power pool with all slots as ultra's, but without the focus limitation, but requiring the player to set up the pool each adventure, and only able to change it at her/his base.

the teleporting effect is therefore just a special effect.

[SuperBlue]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

Part of the thought behind it was that if someone takes a gun from her, she can just port in another one. And not all missions would be in an Urban Setting. Some could conceivable be miles from Public Roads. So how's this look:

 

48 Gun Transponder:

Multipower 60 pts

IIF -1/4

Only if 1 KM from van -0

 

2u - Modified Berreta 9mm

1d6+1 RKA

15 Rounds/Clip x2 Clips +1/4

STR Min 7 -1/2

OAF -1

Real Weapon -1/4

x4 Guns +10 Points

AP: 30+10

RC: 9+10

 

So if that were her weapon's pool, then if someone yanked one of her Berratas from her hand (via TK or Martial Disarm, she can just abandon the gun and have another one teleported to her, and she can do this 3 times before she runs out of Berratas. But would that allow me to have her pull out 2 Berratas at once and use a Multiattack?

[KA.]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I think this needs more examination.

Are the guns actually "real"?

Does taking one away actually make you lose the ability to do an RKA, or just make you waste a half-phase "summoning" a new one?

If you move more than one km away from the van while holding a gun, does the gun you are holding disappear? (It sort of looks like that right now.)

 

Why not build it as a multipower with a limitation on the base:

"Can only change slots within 1 km of van." (whatever that is worth: -1/4 ?)

Then buy the slots as appropriate:

Charges, OAF, Whatever.

 

That means that you can actually lose them, run out of charges, etc.

Which will not be a problem near the van.

But if you are ever far away from the van and run out of charges, get your gun stolen, whatever, you will be limited.

 

And, since you will only be saving significantly on the cost of the slots, this will keep the savings from being "abusive".

 

Just my opinion,

 

KA.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I'd say all the guns should be restrainable (-1/2). With that in mind, I'd probably scrap the IIF, as Restrainable and Focus always strikes me as double dipping, on the basis the van will generally be available, so it won't be removed often enough to justify a Focus. Alternatively, make each slot OAF (since the guns are obvious and accessible, even if the source is not) and give the pool -1/2 for either OIF (same logic as Hero with Gun Belt) or Restraiunable (since every slot is). Either limit is -1/2. Not a "purist" rules interpretation, but a reasonable representation, IMO, of the advantages and drawbacks of the power.

 

The individual slots should also have charges, real weapon, etc. etc.

 

What happens to the old gun if you switch slots? If it gets teleported back to the van, there's not a lot of point having multiple "copies" of the same gun. If it's left behind, then there's the logic gap that the Berreta won't fire because you've summoned the rifle (ie reallocated the MP pool). If you want all weapons potentially capable of working at the same time (eg. you can arm a small army), you'd need to buy each weapon separately (or maybe use a VPP instead of a Multipower). I would be inclined to make the weapons themselves Restrainable (if you're grappled, good luck aiming a gun!). As all slots will be restrainable, the limit will also apply to the pool.

 

I'd also apply an IIF for the teleportation rig the character wears (pool, but not slots), with an interpretation that, if the rig is gone, the gun in your hands becomes an OAF.

 

The van is only a special effect for this power, although you may want it as a vehicle for other purposes.

 

BTW, the berreta's AP cost is 35 (20 x 1.25 = 25 + 10 to get 4 = 35). RP of 9 + 10 is right. As the slot is an Ultra, 35 points of the pool have to be allocated to it, whether you "summon" one gun or several. Another approach would be to have four "Berreta" slots, each with one gun. If you have the AP in the pool, you could summon two by activating two slots. This is getting closer to that VPP, though.

 

PS: If we want to talk "abusive", how limiting is a STR 7 STR minimum compared to Restrainable or OIF, which get the same -1/2?

[Vondy]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I'd use a variable power pool with a hellacious list of limitations attached. Just my two active points. Harbringer of Justice Version One, anyone?

[casualplayer]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I wouldn't say this is Munchkinish...maybe Umpa-Lumpa-ish.

 

This looks much like the first salvo of a power that is eventually going to become a VPP for all things gun. So what would you give for May Only Change Points if Near (1KM>) Battlewagon? As others have said campaign flavor will affect this, from urban to cosmic, but somewhere in the -3/4 range sounds good.

 

I know that sounds huge but there is no way on this earth I would give you any Focus disad for this. If it has to be an obnoxiously big gun you could get OIHID, but it would have to be something completely unconcealable. A Baretta wouldn't fly. The power is basically "Point hand, make trigger-pulling motion, do RKA," which really doesn't justify any Focus disad. If you can only "castle" the weapons, replacing the current firearm with a new one, that might be worth the Focus.

 

Just as an aside, it seems odd that you would have unlimited guns and only 2 clips of bullets. Why change clips when you can just change guns and if you can tport guns why not always have a live round in the chamber?

[ghost-angel]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

Point - the +5 to double the guns must be bought OUTSIDE the Multipower. You're already getting a discount with the doubling rule and it shouldn't be further discounted by being inside a MP Slot.

 

Other than that it looks good.

 

Though you only get a Multiple Power Attack with slots of a MultiPower (or other framework) if the GM permits it - in many cases he will - and you can use both slots at once without going over the MP Reserve.

 

Also, a VPP maybe a be way to go with each slot requiring the same Limitations as a normal gun. (OAF, Real Weapon, etc..)

[Jarekk]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I'd use a variable power pool with a hellacious list of limitations attached. Just my two active points. Harbringer of Justice Version One' date=' anyone?[/quote']

 

Hear hear, with "can only change powers within 1km of van" if you really want.

[Dust Raven]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I'm a bit fuzzy on the teleportation: Do the guns get teleported back to the van? Can the van teleport them back from anywhere (within 1km), or just you? How does the van know where/then to teleport the guns, and can it conceabibly teleport other stuff (like taging an opponents weapon/focus and teleporting it to the van)?

 

The answers to these question might completely alter how this is written up (or just reinforce the above suggestions).

[SuperBlue]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

I'm a bit fuzzy on the teleportation: Do the guns get teleported back to the van? Can the van teleport them back from anywhere (within 1km), or just you? How does the van know where/then to teleport the guns, and can it conceabibly teleport other stuff (like taging an opponents weapon/focus and teleporting it to the van)?

 

The answers to these question might completely alter how this is written up (or just reinforce the above suggestions).

 

The van can only send guns. Once a gun is sent it can't return unless she calls for the van (it has a computer) and puts it back herself.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

The van can only send guns. Once a gun is sent it can't return unless she calls for the van (it has a computer) and puts it back herself.

 

So if you switch multipower slots, what happens to the slot you switched out? There's a rifle lying on the ground, but it won't fire because there's no pool allocated to it? Just to avoid that logic gap, I'd be inclined to have the guns teleported back to the van when you switch slots (a microcircuit in the gun, maybe, so the van can ID it and teleport it back?). Call it a safety feature in case someone takes your gun (and put Restrainable, not a Focus, on the guns themselves).

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: In order to prevent Munchkinish...

 

Actually, I think that some version (as has been suggested) of OIHID would be more appropriate. Why? Let's take a look at this:

 

1) The van can send and recieve weapons. Potentially this means the gun can be snatched by the van out of the hands of someone who took it away from her.

 

2) If someone takes away a gun, she can summon another one.

 

3) If they take it away, presumably then can use it while she's using the next one she summoned. Multipowers don't work that way. Game-mechanics-wise, the gun they swiped from her should become inoperative as soon as she switches slots to another gun.

 

All of this is really sounding to me like the Focus limitation shouldn't be a part of this at all...because if she can just summon another as long as she's within 1 km of the van, the focus can't really be taken away from her. Combine the 'must be within 1 km of van' with 'can only summon another gun so long as there's one available' and that sounds like about a -1/4 to me (depending on how many are available), maybe -1/2 if you really want to stetch it. That's comparable to "Only in Hero ID" at -1/4.

 

Another alternative, though it would take some GM hand-waving, is this:

 

1) Figure out the most expensive gun she'll have available. Make sure the most expensive gun has an attack at least as large as any other gun will, and make sure it has all the Advantages that any of the other available guns will have. (This may make it very expensive.).

 

2) Apply the '+5 points for double the number of items' rule several times, to get the total number of guns available. (Let's say 16 for a nice round number. )

 

3) Go ahead and write up the 'lesser' guns (i.e. the ones that are less powerful in some way [point-cost-wise] than the most expensive gun). Don't use any attacks with a higher number of dice than the most expensive gun, and don't use any Advantage that isn't on the most expensive gun. Declare that some of the '+5 pts. for double the number of items' guns are in fact these less powerful versions, despite technically being 'just the same as' the most expensive gun. This is a -0 Limitation.

 

4) Apply the IIF limitation to the construct. Unlike most cases in which the Focus would be Inobvious (it's not apparent the power is coming from an item) and Inaccessible (you can't take it away in combat), in this case the Inobvious means it's not apparent where the 'new' guns are coming from and the Inaccessible doesn't mean you can't take a gun away from her (and even use it yourself), but that you can't keep her from immediately getting another one to replace the one you took so long as she's within 1 km of the van and there are guns remaining. You might even be able to justify OIF (it's obvious the power to shoot things is coming from the gun, but taking the gun away won't disarm her for more than a half phase).

 

So there's my 2 cp's worth -- make it some version of OHID, or some version of IIF/OIF. The latter probably works better, mechanically, because it means the guns taken away or dropped can still be used by other people (they are Foci in this case) but that dropping one or having one taken away doesn't actually remove access to the Focus from the character (she can, in all probability, just get another one right away).