Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Magnus: Robot Fighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Very cool! If I have any quibbles (and my knowledge of Magnus was not great) was that I thought he was more indestructible than Strong...Neat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Very cool! If I have any quibbles (and my knowledge of Magnus was not great) was that I thought he was more indestructible than Strong...Neat though. Thanx! His father was Torque, a Harbinger who had superhuman strength, but wasnt very tough -- he was killed by Rock, who used a corkscrew to kill him. Magnus regularly shatters advanced metal alloys in his barehands or smashes them with a simple forearm sweep, but wears an armored costume. So, his damage dealing trumps his defenses. Still, he doesnt do a lot of heavy lifting. So I gave him a 45 STR with reasonable natural defenses or 15/8 hrDEF -- pretty tough, but some armor would still be a good idea. I expressed his damage dealing as his Multipower, and handled some of his general durableness and scrappy-ness with LoW, KB Res, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Heres one of my favorite Magnus illos: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter I'm only familiar with the valiant appearences when they started up. But he did things like punch swords on the edge to shatter them and his arms never get all torn up by that jagged metal he's ripping through, but he still gets messed up some. I'd say the resist def you've given him fits the bill. I do note that you built him at the 250 point level and then added experience. Interesting choice in that, as an NPC or display character, it helps establish where you feel he belongs and his relative power level to that "world." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Some more good ones: http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Magnus/magnus16.jpg http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Magnus/magnus34.jpg http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Magnus/magnus53.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter I'm only familiar with the valiant appearences when they started up. But he did things like punch swords on the edge to shatter them and his arms never get all torn up by that jagged metal he's ripping through' date=' but he still gets messed up some. I'd say the resist def you've given him fits the bill.[/quote']Thanx! I do note that you built him at the 250 point level and then added experience. Interesting choice in that, as an NPC or display character, it helps establish where you feel he belongs and his relative power level to that "world." Yeah, the Valiant Universe was lower powered in general than most Comic universe of its era. I think the 250 point range is good as a base, with some notable characters like Solar and Harada having experience points to bring them up to the appropriate power levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Major Tom Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Magnus, Robot Fighter... Man, I haven't seen an issue of that since Gold Key Comics had the title. Major Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Magnus' date=' Robot Fighter[/i']... Man, I haven't seen an issue of that since Gold Key Comics had the title. Major Tom Wow. So how is that senior citizen discount working out Good characters never die, they just get liscenced.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Magnus' date=' Robot Fighter[/i']... Man, I haven't seen an issue of that since Gold Key Comics had the title. Major Tom What, you mean Gold Key lost the title? MRF was one of the things I read when it was marginal that I could read at all... In fact, I probably couldn't, when I started. The titles available in a provincial city in Australia at the time were a bit haphazard. My first introduction to the Marvel characters was a promotion an icecream company did, where they produced glider toys that had pictures of people like the Hulk, Thor, and other non-entities I had never heard of on them. My "kid era" experiences of comics included DC, the Phantom, Magnus Robot Fighter, Archie(!), various Disney comics (including Super Goof - don't forget him!) and, of course, a whole bunch of war comics. The fact that a lot of them were Australian reprints meant that I got to read a lot of Silver Age classics well after their original publication, and before their republication. In particular, I developed a love of the JSA, very late in the 60s/very early in the 70s. But then my comics habit died. Even then, you see, I was selective. I missed a lot of the finest and weirdest stuff. I actually remember the covers of some things I am currently kicking myself for not having bought and sealed in really cool plastic, because I would really love to read them. In fact, I would even take up smoking non-tobacco (again) just to appreciate them properly. These days, I spend more money on reprints than on current stuff. I didn't get back into comics until until after I started playing Champions. I did a good job of doing it though, since, fortunately, some of my fellow players and sometimes housemates had really good collections. I've read the New Teen Titans. And, a fair bit of the second series of Teen Titans. And bits of the Secret Society of Super-Villains. And a fair slab of Green Lantern/Green Arrow. And, of course, the new X-Men, including the Phoenix saga. And, of course, Frank Miller's run on Daredevil.... Blah blah. You know. Lots of the good stuff. A lot of it is in my collection now. Oops. BTW, in your opinion, is there going to be a third X-Man movie, and, do you think, do you think, will Jean Grey make "an appearance", do you think?? I do. Well, duh. If they can pay the actors enough cash for a guaranteed blockbuster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Jim Shooter founded Valiant after getting out bid in his attempt to buy out Marvel. A big fan of Solar, Magnus, and Turok he acquired the liscences for them shortly before founding Valiant, and Magnus was the first comic published in the Valiant Universe. In the Valiant version it was revealed in Unity that Magnus was displaced from the modern age as a baby by direction of the Geomancer and made possible by Solar. His father was a Harbinger with super strength (Torque), thus explaining Magnus' superpowered status in a future that mostly lacked superpowered people that werent science based. (*All of the Harbingers left Earth after the Harbinger wars of the early 21st century in Valiant continuity) (*Harbingers are basically mutant parrallels, but without all the anti-mutant hysteria of Marvel. Their powers are all Psionic in nature at some level (similar to WildCARDS), and most 1st generation Harbingers only had one ability, though some were more multi-purpose than others) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim_McCoy Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Valiant had one of the better universes I've ever seen with regard to continuity and cross-over. I like their idea for H.A.R.D. Corps as a Champions team. Each character has a brain implant that can generate nearly any Harbinger (mutant) power... one at a time. Need to switch out? Call back to HQ and they'll download a different power to you. Better be prepared for teamwork. The series also inspired one of the better tag lines: "Valiant Comics. Where dead is dead." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Valiant had one of the better universes I've ever seen with regard to continuity and cross-over. I like their idea for H.A.R.D. Corps as a Champions team. Each character has a brain implant that can generate nearly any Harbinger (mutant) power... one at a time. Need to switch out? Call back to HQ and they'll download a different power to you. Better be prepared for teamwork. The series also inspired one of the better tag lines: "Valiant Comics. Where dead is dead." Yeah, HARD Corps was one of my favorites too. If anything, I thought the deathrate should have been higher. It was like Dirty Dozen done supers style. The "Psi-borg" concept was pretty neat. I might just have to do a HARD Corps write up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Actually, in reflection, it just occured to me that the Magnus run with the Malevs who put humans in little bubbles to draw off their "ectotheric energy" was kind of like the "copper top" human battery bit behind the Matrix. I wonder if the W-ski Brothers were Magnus readers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Hmm ... shouldn't Magnus also have his own style of martial arts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Hmm ... shouldn't Magnus also have his own style of martial arts? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Major Tom Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Wow. So how is that senior citizen discount working out Good characters never die, they just get liscenced.... I'm not that old. Major Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter I'm not that old. Major Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Hmm ... shouldn't Magnus also have his own style of martial arts? Why? As Shrike wrote him up, he's got a Dex of 25, Spd of 5, +2 DCV, +4 HTH, Analyze:Robots, Defense Maneuver 4, Rapid Attack & Two-Weapon Fighting (HTH). This in addition to his 6d6 HKA x2 AP & around 17d HA, x2 Penetrating (w/Str) gives him some pretty nice combat options. 'Sides, he's not much for the fancy legsweeps, nerve strikes & joint locks. He doesn't need them, since he's capable of driving his fist through most bots in one shot. He never seemed to be too martial-arts based in his Valiant run anyway, just a one-man wrecking crew. Rai, his Japanese counterpart was more of a martial artist, fighting style-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Why? As Shrike wrote him up, he's got a Dex of 25, Spd of 5, +2 DCV, +4 HTH, Analyze:Robots, Defense Maneuver 4, Rapid Attack & Two-Weapon Fighting (HTH). This in addition to his 6d6 HKA x2 AP & around 17d HA, x2 Penetrating (w/Str) gives him some pretty nice combat options. 'Sides, he's not much for the fancy legsweeps, nerve strikes & joint locks. He doesn't need them, since he's capable of driving his fist through most bots in one shot. He never seemed to be too martial-arts based in his Valiant run anyway, just a one-man wrecking crew. Rai, his Japanese counterpart was more of a martial artist, fighting style-wise. Yeah, that was my thinking as well. The only possible exception is he's not much of a grappler under my current build, but then he wasnt much of a grappler in the comics either. He's the epitome of the big striker. I could see giving him a few grapple based manuevers offensive & defensive from a character balance standpoint, but as I said I dont recall him being a good grappler. The only person I can remember him "owning" in a grapple was Weasel and other non-superstrong types, and his 45 STR would be enough to cover that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Why? I always saw the character as someone who had a unique style to him and some refinement ... not just a random brawler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter I always saw the character as someone who had a unique style to him and some refinement ... not just a random brawler You dont need an MA for that. Many "martial artists" are bought with Multipowers, or just a lot of CSLs. Id call a 12 OCV pretty "refined", and his MP accomplishes the net effect of making him an extremely powerful striker. Also, his ability to put his flesh thru metal makes for a "unique" style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter You dont need an MA for that. Many "martial artists" are bought with Multipowers, or just a lot of CSLs. Id call a 12 OCV pretty "refined", and his MP accomplishes the net effect of making him an extremely powerful striker. Also, his ability to put his flesh thru metal makes for a "unique" style. I agree to disagree KS Personally, when I look at characters that are hand-to-hand experts, I usually try and find a martial art style that would work with them (or for that matter make one). With Magnus, since he was trained in the martial arts by 1-A, I'd create a style of martial arts probably called Robot Fighting that centered around things like Killing Strikes and Offensive and Defensive Blows. Whenever I look at someone with just raw striking ability (ie: high OCV/DCV, powers emulating strikes, etc), I see a brawler ... like many superheroes are ... and not someone truly refined in the art of fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter I agree to disagree KS Personally' date=' when I look at characters that are hand-to-hand experts, I usually try and find a martial art style that would work with them (or for that matter make one). With Magnus, since he was trained in the martial arts by 1-A, I'd create a style of martial arts probably called Robot Fighting that centered around things like Killing Strikes and Offensive and Defensive Blows. Whenever I look at someone with just raw striking ability (ie: high OCV/DCV, powers emulating strikes, etc), I see a brawler ... like many superheroes are ... and not someone truly refined in the art of fighting.[/quote'] Well, obviously what you do in your own campaigns is up to you, but the basic idea behind the HERO System is SFX. Reasoning from effects, not mechanics. Theres more than one way to build a martial artist in the HERO System than just picking a bunch of Martial Manuevers. Many "martial artist" characters, particularly superhero style MA's, are built on powers rather than MA's. The strike MP is a pretty common element, and you could even have a purely "CSL" based style, where the character's advanced combat training is expressed via their high combat levels. My build of Magnus has both -- he has attacks that are far more punishing than Martial Manuevers would be without a lot of damage classes, and enough raw statistics and CSL's to easily hit most foes while avoiding most hits in return. In an Effects based system like the HERO System, the SFX of his CSL's and exaggerated striking power is easily defined as "Martial Arts as taught by 1-A combined with natural Harbinger ability". As far as an actual manuever based MA Style for Magnus, youre working against the intended effect to build his strikes w/ Martial Manuevers. Robots are usually (EDIT: meant Automatons, not AI's) and thus dont take STUN, so all the Normal Damage attacks are practically useless vs them. Meanwhile, Killing Attack as a Manuever costs a lot to raise -- 8 pts per DC rather than the normal 5. And because its a Martial Manuever it will also do less KB than a pure HKA/RKA. So its basically inefficient to make a "Robot Fighter" with Martial Manuevers. What Manuevers could do well for Magnus are Martial Throw, Martial Escape, and Martial Grab, or a Throw, Escape and Grab based manuever of choice, and one or more FMOVE based Manuever. But, on the otherhand, you dont see Magnus grapple much in the Valiant continuity -- he usually just does his trademark straight-arm thrust or forearm smash or crushing grip which are all easily covered by one power -- HKA. Thus I didnt give him the grapple set, even though from a Champions perspective it makes sense to cover such an obvious weak area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter Oh ... I understand the premise behind the Hero system, as well as the various ideas behind martial arts. Personally, I would give him a style for panache ... just like I would with anyone that's a martial artst But like I said, I agree to disagree I imagine that we'd build characters very differently, and that's okay as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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