[Iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

[The Hyborian]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

The words "status quo" came up in this thread. I think silver age comics often were guilty of supporting the status quo in many ways, but were at their best when they defied it. Stan Lee, theat egomanical carnival barker of the comic world, love him or hate him, wrote some genre reversing stories in his day. Spiderman, the super with problems and doubts, driven as much by grief and shame as anything else. The Fantasic Four, supers with disfunctional family issues and self esteem problems.

 

And to jump the other side of the fence into the DC world, How about Green Lantern/Green Arrow. Take a chin up chest out old timer like the Lantern, and put him in a book with Green Arrow, who up to that point had been a silly batman ripoff with a cave under a mansion, a youthfull ward, and a yellow submarine, and turn them into a socially conscious exploration of American cultural divisions and race (ok, with supervillians).

 

My point being that each age of comics has innovators and status quo writers who write what is popular without depth. There is great storytelling in the Silver Age, although much of it was crap. Same with every other age of comics.

[Mentor]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

What a great discussion, people.

 

I think RDU Neil and Storn touched on many of the points that I observe, but all of you have made this a tremedous topic. Any way, to sum up, even though I tend to prefer Silver Age, the fact that issues of the appropriateness of killing, questioning authority, dealing with institutionalized injustice and the like don't make change the genre to Iron Age but merely expand the heroes into believable characters, IMHO. Batman and Spiderman dealt with tough issues and broke many molds without losing their iconic status.

 

My only experience with the phenomena of Iron Age was Wolverine, the always angry, angsty, loner who, despite being relatively invulnerable, disemboweled his opposition as a matter of course. Only after the entire universe became a giant anti mutant witch hunt was there anything approaching justification, but then the X Men were all embattled victies of society and lost any semblance of realism when every combat was "High Noon" with our abandoned heroes fighting for their lives and not for society. This went beyond "a more gritty reality" for me.

[Funksaw]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

The problem with the silver age was that the writing was hackneyed. You had good guys and bad guys, no one in between, good was victorious and powerful, evil always lost.

 

There are a number of iron-age comics who do this (Millar's Authority, for one) but in the Silver age, due to the Comics Code, it was unavoidable. You couldn't show characters with moral ambivolence, and you couldn't show characters questioning authority - because authority could not be portrayed as corrupt.

 

Fine if you're writing "Beowulf," but not so much if you're trying to tell an engaging story. In short, the code was too limiting.

 

Keep in mind, great writing makes up for much of this - look at the Justice League cartoon, for example. (Before the "U.S. Army conspiracy" storyline undertaken last season.) Silver age in pretty much all respects, but the dialogues and subplots (and who ever heard of a subplot in a silver-age comic!) keep it from becoming dull...

[GamePhil]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

but then the X Men were all embattled victies of society and lost any semblance of realism when every combat was "High Noon" with our abandoned heroes fighting for their lives and not for society.

 

There may be hope there: while all I've read are the first few issues, Joss Whedon's run on the Amazing X-Men (I think) basically starts with Cyclops giving a speech to the effect of, "We're superheroes. Let's get out there and prove it for once."

 

I loved that.

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

Because it tends to do stuff that violates my sense of suspended disbelief. In particular' date=' I *reallyreallyreally* hate it when killing a villain in self defense/defense of another under extreme circumstances is not only viewed as a failing on the part of the hero ( good idea, depending on character ), but as an *actual prosecutable crime* ( bad, bad, BAD idea ).[/quote']Maybe, but it happens in the real world. Depends on how the authorities view the use of deadly force by other than "government sanctioned" agents.If we're grumping about Silver Age is being "unrealistic", then this isn't the best way to go about it. Being prosecuted for killing in self defense is a possibility in the real world. Being sued even more so. I can cite many examples, if you're curious, but in the real world, killing is generally frowned upon.

[nexus]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

Ya didn't see Ali talking much during the fight. Maybe a line here or there, but a mouthpiece makes it difficult. And btw, that is not a fight. That is a sport. Huge difference. The possiblity of dying for Ali was about the same as crossing a Manhatten street... sure, its definitely there. But it is not the same as watching your friends being turned into hamburger during an artillery barrage... or a superhuman barrage.

.

 

There is (or so I have been told by combat verterans) such a thing as a combat high, but I've never experieneced it myself so I find it difficult to imagine.

 

I really don't have much a problem with character "enjoying", or at least not suffering as much from combat stress as real people. The alternative isn't as much fun, IMO. Counselling and therapy sessions don't make good adventure fodder.

 

And all role playing characters are somehwhat irrealistic in their ability to deal with stress. Look at their lives. Friends, family memebers and loved ones threatened on an almost weekly basis, constantly injured or threatened and put in situations where if they screw up hundreds, perhaps millions die. They should be walking basket cases.

[ShinDangaioh]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

The Comics Code Authority was a pain. Before it showed up, you did get some interesting stories. Like the time Star Boy killed someone in self defense.

 

He was put on trial by Brainiac 5 for killing and not using his powers to stop this assassin in a non-lethal manner. Superboy was on Star Boy's side that the Legion should have the option to kill, since they aren't invulnerable like himself.

 

Of course there was the Spectre comic that showed two viewpoints. One from the Spectre and the other from the reporter chasing the Spectre. How that comic got past the CCA, I'll never know.

 

As to the Iron Age. Isn't that the age of the company wide crossover events and multiple covers?

[Funksaw]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

I'd like to talk about something. Somewhere in my still-packed book collection is the Graphic Novelization of Kirby's New Gods. I couldn't get through it.

 

I really couldn't - it did a poor job of introducing characters and concepts, there were these four human characters tacked on for no good reason, and the writing was completely comic-book cliche.

 

I'm sure if someone took the entire New Gods mythology and rewrote, redesigned the entire thing, it'd play better today. And I'm sure there's a great story in there (it was said to have inspired Star Wars) but as a modern reader, I just can't cut through it.

 

During the silver-age, comics were semi-literate kiddie fare, and because all conflicts had to be posited in a good vs. evil -- so be good! -- background, it couldn't evolve beyond that.

[Starlord]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

This is a difficult question for me because I would think a true comics fan wouldn't make a blanket statement such as disliking a certain age because a good story is a good story no matter what 'age' is the backdrop.

 

If forced to pick one I'd say I dislike it for most of the reasons listed above such as its overall lack of realism. But then, that's also why I like it.

[Blue]

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

 

I agree with the "why choose" statment. While I know and appreciate each of the subsets of the genre, I'm likely to pull from any one of them I feel like pulling from at the time.