Fuzzy Gnome Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Supreme My problem with the "X-Effect that makes super-powers possible" idea is this: If the x-effect is scientific in nature, then all the magical characters are not actually magical. They are people who are using ritualism to manipulate some kind of scientifically-based energy. This effectively means that they are deluded. I agree, it's a big problem when you're told your character's deluded. But any sufficiently advanced science will have to be able to explain magic or else it's incomplete. Or looking at it another way, if your magic is reliable and comprehensible enough that you can cast spells and huck energy blasts, it effectively is science. It's kind of thin, but we can say that the gods and sorcerors of legend used the x-effect or something similar themselves. That's better than being insane. Originally posted by Supreme If the x-effect is magical in nature, then all the technologically-based characters (i.e., the powered-armor types) are using wild-card-type tech. This means that their tech does not actually work, they just have a super-power which makes their pseudo-tech work. In effect, they are deluded. OK, magic gave me an IQ of 500 and instinctive knowledge of technology. No problem. It's only bad if the GM assumes that magic can't help a gadgeteer create technology, or that technology can never be improved much over what we have today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Supreme I see what you're saying, LL. That certainly works for me. Though that is an unusual form of the "unified origin" scenario. Most usually state some kind of energy field or incident of genetic manipulation. Quite right, but who's to say that either of those can't be the trigger to awaken human potential in all areas? Why can't an energy field alter physical laws within it? Why can't mutations allow people to channel ambient magical energy? Depending on how broad the parameters are that you're comfortable with, almost any kind of trigger will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 I have got to start hitting the boards on the weekend... It's an easy argument that unified origins make for narrow campaigns. It's not exactly an accurate one, however: the trick is how RECENT that unifying origin is. Take my Emergence campaign: it has a unified origin. However, that origin goes quite a way back: eventually the players discovered that "super powers" are just a modern manifestation of the same "magic" that existed before the 14th century. The "magic" was just an effect of the Dreamspace (also known as Limbo, the astral plane, etc.) "bleeding" into this universe, wizards/superheroes just have the ability to control it. End result? Superheroes just started appearing. There are magical artifacts the world over. Giant monsters empowered by the return of the "magic" have begun appearing. The increased flow of "magic" has caused the dimensional barriers to weaken, opening the doorway to alternate realities, super technology, etc... I won't say whether, or how much of, this is true in my current NeoChampions universe however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by Supreme My problem with the "X-Effect that makes super-powers possible" idea is this: If the x-effect is scientific in nature, then all the magical characters are not actually magical. I have a problem with this statement. The problem is this: what is magical? For a magician/wizard/mystic who understands what he/she/it is doing, can make predictions of the effect that will occur, magic is, well, engineering. Now if you want to say that magic is based on godly or demonic or infernal intervention and that all magic involves some form of summoning that power, then you may be right. But I don't think you want to go that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonHunter Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Having my cake and eating it too. In my campaign, I had ancient and modern being of power. The source of all powers is Talent- the cosmic energy the empowers psionics and magik. Talent has been with mankind since the begining of time. It created the mythic heroes of old, and a few people who posed as Gods. Over the milienia, the paranormals had fought for their own agendas. Around 1066, something occured that "broke" the flow of talent in the world. Those that had powered, now had less, and were at risk of retribution from mundanes. A great spell was cast, hiding the existance of paranormals. The flow of talent being what it was, messed with the spell, not only causing people to ignore the existance of paranormals, but actually altering physical evidence of their existance. Only a few books in a few mystically protected libraries have the true history and event of humankind. Over the next few centuries, talent flows came and went, steadily getting stronger every time. The paranormals continued to hide their existance as it gave them an edge over the world (there is an advantage in people not believing that monsters or paranormal powers or magik). The mystic lodges and other cabals continued to fight the same old fights. The werewolves lived in the shadows of humankind. In the early 1960s, a few things happened. The Cabals began to ramp up for the Appocolypse, so they began to recuit actively. The various cabals began to fight with each other with renewed vigor. There was a massive population explosion comming of age, and there was a massive increase in the percentage of people who had some degree of talent. For the first time since before 1066, several metas were born. A meta is a creature with marked increase of potential and ability, in its early days it is as powerful as an aged adept paranormal. They various cabals recruited these younglings and trained them. In the 70s, the fights continued. The number of paranormals and metas increased. In 1980 (the 2000 year clock started at birth), the forces of Good and Evil, clashed for the last time. At the end of those years, "The end of the world" came and went, and because of 2000 years of meddling, very little happened except the Great Game was over... or so people thought. The conflict broke the flow of talent again, yet this time, people fixed it immediately. While the higher powers no longer were keeping score, their pawns on the board of the Earth kept fighting it out. In 84, one of the more active metas, one who was there in the Great Conflict, noted that there were more and more metas and more were coming. Knowing that people hated and feared that which they did not know and did not fit neatly into their world, slipped on some spandex and saved some people at a bad crash on the Golden Gate Bridge. He went on Nightline later that week and explained in a very abbridged and very "couched" manner, the existance of paranormals and metas. He explained the reason he wore the costume with the cape was people understood the concept of Super Hero while they were a bit fuzzy on the concept of mystic guardian. SuperHeroes in this world use magik, psionics, or paranormal mutations (Werewolves, Hawk People, etc). Metas have powerful innate abilities that they don't have to learn how to use. Even if they don't think of their super strength as magik, it is powered by magikal energy infused in their muscles. Paranormals have to study and learn their few abilities. Metas could learn magik or diversify their abilities by studying a few mystic techniques, but very few cabals wanted more powerful metas, so they try to prevent that. Metas start at 250 (100+150 disads), while a paranormal would start at 175 (75+100 disads). See. I can have my cake and eat it too. If you wanted to be "old school" you could be. If you wanted to be a modern meta, you could be that too. MoonHunter Sage, Gamer, Mystic, Wit "The road less traveled is less traveled for a reason." Now posting 1100+ RPG Tips @ http://www.openroleplaying.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogzilla Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Unified origins don't have to be completely universal, though. My campaign has all the PCs gaining their powers by the same "event" - - however, one of them is also a being of "magick", which is what accounts for all the demigods, wizards, psychics, mystery-men, etc throughout history. So, the PCs are able to detect others who are similarly powerded to themselves, but unable to identify those who use "magick" - - except, of course, the one PC mentioned above (and I haven't yet clued her in on all she *can* do; ah, the joy of secret GM-added abilities ). -Yogzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by BarryB I have a problem with this statement. The problem is this: what is magical? For a magician/wizard/mystic who understands what he/she/it is doing, can make predictions of the effect that will occur, magic is, well, engineering. To paraphrase Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" That's another issue that the term "psionics" is useful for. It's the scientific form of "magic" (notice how often it shows up as a stand-in for sorcery in SFRPGs). Sure, it's just word games. However, I have to say that your post clarified the point I was trying to make considerably. Nicely put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by Arthur To paraphrase Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" That's another issue that the term "psionics" is useful for. It's the scientific form of "magic" (notice how often it shows up as a stand-in for sorcery in SFRPGs). Sure, it's just word games. However, I have to say that your post clarified the point I was trying to make considerably. Nicely put. Thank you. I agree with your point about the use of the term "psionics." I find it interesting that so many role-playing genres include a functional equivalent of magic. The only one that I think doesn't do that is modern mercenary/special ops role-playing. Even then, there might be high-tech devices (James Bond gadgets) that are the functional equivalent of magic. In some Champions games like my own, scientists are the equivalent of magicians. It would probably be possible to write a Ph.D. dissertation about the psychology of the need/desire for magic in role-playing games. I suspect that there are two reasons for it. The first and primary one is a desire for escapism, specifically the constraints of laws of physics/chemistry/etc. This allows a player to make unfettered use of his or her imagination and makes possible any desire that the player may wish to live out. The second is a desire for superior firepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 A proposal I made to my players for a potential campaign that never came about actually had a unified origin of sorts... The characters had real world Dark Champions level characters and a cyber-world "superhroic" level equivalent. The idea being that they logged-on in order to "fight the power". Of course this was proposed a year before the matrix came out. After the matrix came out, it just felt like it had been done. But their origins would technically all be the same; their heroic forms were programs hacked together to represent them on the net. But I actually considered for the existing campaign forcing everyone to have the same event; namely introduction of a chemical that enhances a rare few individuals, ignores most people, and is toxic to a few others. Instead it just wound up being a background element in the current campaign, and anyone who wants to use that element as their origin can get a free and easy "susceptibility" to it as a result of their initial exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by Yogzilla Unified origins don't have to be completely universal, though. My campaign has all the PCs gaining their powers by the same "event" - - however, one of them is also a being of "magick", which is what accounts for all the demigods, wizards, psychics, mystery-men, etc throughout history. So, the PCs are able to detect others who are similarly powerded to themselves, but unable to identify those who use "magick" - - except, of course, the one PC mentioned above (and I haven't yet clued her in on all she *can* do; ah, the joy of secret GM-added abilities ). -Yogzilla I think it does. "Unified" by definition means all in one. If you have an "event trigger" that explains some powers, but then you also have magical beings who came to be what they are by a separate magical process, then you have an un-unified -- or multiple -- origins campaign. This is what I do. Since in the real world what we wind up with when we debate the big (and not so big) questions is a bunch of people debating various theories, none of which fit quite right. So in my campaign I present the various theories, about ten of them, which range from the religious-based, to the scientific, to the cuckoo-based. I present the theories in simplified form, and give the summary arguments for and against. Theories include: An unidentified xeno-virus An unidentified capacity for all living things to subtly alter the fabric of reality A race of mysterious aliens who implanted the super-potential in Homo sapiens for reasons unknown, but ominous The will of (insert deity of choice here) No such thing as supers, it's all a Jewish-Zionist Hollywood-made conspiracy like the Moon landing and the Holocaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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