Archmage Stats

[Powerhouse]

Unfortunately, my old mystic masters (4th edition) is at my mother's house so I don't have access to its stats on the archmage or his pupil.

 

I am looking to pick up the new mystic book though (too bad it's not at my local store... gotta special order it I guess). I was wondering if it had stats for any of the past arch mages (since there is none in the current 5th edition CU) or advice for how to create one?

 

On that subject, does anyone have advice for how to construct a proper arch mage for the CU? I remember that Mystic Masters used both VPP's and MP's... have anyone utilized this or found a better way to make a Dr. Fate or Dr. Strange?

 

Thanks!

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

No actual stats for the archmages. I'd suggest having 5e Archmages be centered around a bigass cosmic power pool, with a smaller pool having the Variable Limitation tagged on it to represent extra power accessible with rituals, concentration, foci, etc.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Some random thoughts:

 

A good sized VPP (Cosmic?)

A base, the base has various AID's to his powers

 

I will work something up over the next few days and post my worlds Archmage as an example (Give me 5-7 days)

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I would suggest making the VPP cosmic. It more or less says in Mystic World that one of the marks of an Archmage is cosmic VPP.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

This is a rough draft of a Dr Strange type character, note that the var lim is actualy a place holder it really should read "Must take -1/2 limitations on all powers", it is a house rule for VPP's similar but subtlly different from Var Lims

 

Skills & Perks & drawbacks were not done as they are all very setting specific...

 

 

 

Player:

 

Val	Char	Cost
15	STR	5
27	DEX	51
25	CON	30
14	BODY	8
28	INT	18
18	EGO	16
30	PRE	20
16	COM	3
10/25	PD	7
10/25	ED	5
6	SPD	23
8	REC	0
50	END	0
35	STUN	0

6" RUN02" SWIM03" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 186

 

Cost	Power	END
270	Variable Power Pool, 150 base + 120 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (300 Active Points); Variable Limitations (requires -1/2 worth of Limitations -1/4)
30	Cloak of the Traveler: Multipower, 45-point reserve, all slots: (45 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)
3u	1) Flight 15", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points)
3u	2) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Any Dimension, Any Location) (45 Active Points)	4
3u	3) Teleportation 10", x4 Increased Mass, Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (45 Active Points)	4
3u	4) Teleportation 15", Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) (45 Active Points)	4
	Amulet of Protection, all slots: IIF (-1/4)
36	1) Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points)
8	2) +10 Mental Defense (14 points total) (10 Active Points)
6	3) Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Only Works Against Magic Limited Type of Attack (-1/2)

Powers Cost: 362

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 548

 

 

Base Points: 500

Experience Required: 48

Total Experience Available: 50

Experience Unspent: 2

[Vorsch]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Strange that a supermage has dex27 spd6 and only ego 18.

 

This is a archmage type, isint it?

[GamePhil]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Strange that a supermage has dex27 spd6 and only ego 18.

 

Depends on the game. In a game where above-NCM DEX and SPD are fairly typical for superheroes, such stats might be necessary for the character to be effective and/or fun to play. Similarly, if most characters have an EGO in the 10-14 range, an 18 might be very effective and be considered quite strong-willed. If stats are typically lower, the Archmage's stats would likewise be lower.

 

Also, while I wouldn't go quite so high on the Characteristics, Doctor Strange was a low-end martial artist (it was part of his training), fully capable of holding his own even without his magic. The high DEX and SPD certainly aren't out of character for him, so they shouldn't necessarily be dismissed for similar characters. Doctor Fate, on the other hand, was a full-fledged physical powerhouse during at least some of his career.

 

My character, Dr. Powers, is in a similar vein, but has much lower Characteristics and higher Powers. Sort of: He only has a 75 pt VPP, but also has a 225 point Multipower for his greater magics. No Archmage (Sorcerer Supreme, what have you) should be without his 60d6 Dispel against any one spell

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Yeah, the "big multipower for main spells" is another option. I'd definitely favor a *much* higher Ego, though. After all, the Archmage has to routinely deal with powers and entities Beyond Human Comprehension.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I did him in 5 min. He is as I said rough...I would consider adding more Ego, more mental defence, etc... to him

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Yeah' date=' the "big multipower for main spells" is another option. I'd definitely favor a *much* higher Ego, though. After all, the Archmage has to routinely deal with powers and entities Beyond Human Comprehension.[/quote']

 

Thus the reason I gave him a high PRE (In my games the Max Human Presence is 30)

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Okay all this talk has got me wanted to start designing my worlds version

The stats are high, but he is a cosmic level character so it is to be expected

 

His VPP is where most of his powers come from, and trust me he will have a high skill level. It might seem low but in his base he will have an AID (or Succor) to increase his power level some (This makes him tough on his home territority, not so tough outside of it).

 

I really like what i did to the "Cloak of the travelor" with inc end cost

 

His Base will be in a pocket dimension (or an entire dimension, not sure yet)

 

It has been established that he has an apprentice, she will be her own character and chip in some points on the base as well. (Very High power character)

 

Loremaster

 

Player:

 

Val	Char	Cost
15	STR	5
27	DEX	51
25	CON	30
14	BODY	8
28	INT	18
23	EGO	26
30	PRE	20
14	COM	2
10/25	PD	7
10/25	ED	5
6	SPD	23
8	REC	0
50	END	0
35	STUN	0

6" RUN02" SWIM03" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 195

 

Cost	Power	END
5	See Magic: Detect A Class Of Things 15-
5	+5 Mental Defense (20 points total)
225	Magical Powers: Variable Power Pool, 125 base + 100 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (250 Active Points); Variable Limitations (requires -1/2 worth of Limitations -1/4)
3	Cloak of the travelor: Endurance Reserve (30 END, 2 REC) (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)
33	Cloak of the travelor: Multipower, 50-point reserve, all slots: (50 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)
3u	1) Flight 15", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points)
3u	2) Teleportation 10", Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (45 Active Points) (uses END Reserve)	4
2u	3) Teleportation 10", Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 2x END (-1/2) (uses END Reserve)	8
1u	4) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Dimensions, Any Location), x2 Increased Weight (40 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 4x END (-1 1/2) (uses END Reserve)	16
	Amulet of protection, all slots: IIF (-1/4)
36	1) Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points)
8	2) +10 Mental Defense (20 points total) (10 Active Points)
6	3) Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Only Works Against Magic Limited Type of Attack (-1/2)

Powers Cost: 330

 

 

 

Cost	Perk
25	Base (125 Base, 125 Disad)

Perks Cost: 25

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 550

 

 

Base Points: 500

Experience Required: 50

Total Experience Available: 50

Experience Unspent: 0

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I strongly recommend the general approach here - a substantial VPP, either Cosmic or close to it, allowing for a wide variety of effects, and from which primary offensive powers are drawn, plus one or more Multipowers containing a variety of general-utility spells (Defensive, Movement, etc.) - for a true Archmage/Mystic Master sort of character, ala Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate.

 

Another approach that tends to work well for less powerful magi is to have a big MP with lots of slots as the primary spells, then a smaller, highly flexible VPP to fill in little things as needed. The character doing this sacrifices some flexibility in terms of the big-cost and offensive powers, but at substantial point savings. This is definitely the way to go for starting-level super-mage wannabes in campaigns set at the typical Champions point range for starting characters. La Diabla, in my "Share the Wealth" thread, is an example of this approach; so is Witchcraft, though I don't think she's particularly well-designed.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I strongly recommend the general approach here - a substantial VPP, either Cosmic or close to it, allowing for a wide variety of effects, and from which primary offensive powers are drawn, plus one or more Multipowers containing a variety of general-utility spells (Defensive, Movement, etc.) - for a true Archmage/Mystic Master sort of character, ala Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate.

 

Another approach that tends to work well for less powerful magi is to have a big MP with lots of slots as the primary spells, then a smaller, highly flexible VPP to fill in little things as needed. The character doing this sacrifices some flexibility in terms of the big-cost and offensive powers, but at substantial point savings. This is definitely the way to go for starting-level super-mage wannabes in campaigns set at the typical Champions point range for starting characters. La Diabla, in my "Share the Wealth" thread, is an example of this approach; so is Witchcraft, though I don't think she's particularly well-designed.

 

Most defences should be outside the MP, it's a playability thing

[OddHat]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I'd suggest tons of skills and languages. The pool should be fully cosmic; the Arch Mage does not blow his skill roll. Also, this write up has no Magic Skill for changing his own power pool.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Has no skills whatso ever yet (working on that right now, the magic skill was set at 30-)

 

Also has 12 languages

11 KS

22 points in COntacts

 

Some of these are not yet defined...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Most defences should be outside the MP' date=' it's a playability thing[/quote']

It depends on the size of the MP and what defenses you're talking about. If you build one that has enough points for a basic or additive defense and a movement power, no problem. For example, you might have a MP built with a base cost large enough to cover both a decent level of flight and an adequate force field, then have other slots that provide decent levels of teleportation and extra mental defense, or what have you. If you value cost savings over flexibility, you could build each as U slots, but you wouldn't have to if you wanted to be able to bump up either movement or defense at the expense of the other. Another good idea might be to have the defense powers as Ultra slots and the movement not, in case you wanted to put up more than one defense at the cost of less movement.

 

What you don't want, especially for an archmage, is to be able to do either the movement or the defense, but not both. That can be acceptable for one slot, maybe - something like a big Force Wall for last-ditch group defense, which takes up the whole MP pool - but isn't functional as a constant either/or situation. Dr. Strange can always invoke the Shields of the Seraphim even while using the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak or the Images of Ikonn against his foes.

 

What you also don't want is to have essential defenses sometimes unavailable due to MP point allotments. It's fine to have a slot that boosts Mental Defense, but a competent archmage should always have at least some Mental Defense active - and thus outside the MP.

 

Alternately, one could do as you did with Loremaster and have different Multis, but that doesn't always make sense for character conception. In your case, it does make sense, as the construct reflects item-based multipowers - and that's fine, though in such cases I'd definitely do as you did and put them in separate MPs - but for characters for whom all the power is inherent to him/her, there's no thematic reason or point reason to not put both in the same Spell Pool MP.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I'd favor sticking primary defense and movement into a EC, unless you want to make a movement multipower or make the defense inherent ( "persistant protective spells" ). Likewise for any other powers likely to be activated simultaneously.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

It depends on the size of the MP and what defenses you're talking about. If you build one that has enough points for a basic or additive defense and a movement power, no problem. For example, you might have a MP built with a base cost large enough to cover both a decent level of flight and an adequate force field, then have other slots that provide decent levels of teleportation and extra mental defense, or what have you. If you value cost savings over flexibility, you could build each as U slots, but you wouldn't have to if you wanted to be able to bump up either movement or defense at the expense of the other. Another good idea might be to have the defense powers as Ultra slots and the movement not, in case you wanted to put up more than one defense at the cost of less movement.

 

What you don't want, especially for an archmage, is to be able to do either the movement or the defense, but not both. That can be acceptable for one slot, maybe - something like a big Force Wall for last-ditch group defense, which takes up the whole MP pool - but isn't functional as a constant either/or situation. Dr. Strange can always invoke the Shields of the Seraphim even while using the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak or the Images of Ikonn against his foes.

 

What you also don't want is to have essential defenses sometimes unavailable due to MP point allotments. It's fine to have a slot that boosts Mental Defense, but a competent archmage should always have at least some Mental Defense active - and thus outside the MP.

 

Alternately, one could do as you did with Loremaster and have different Multis, but that doesn't always make sense for character conception. In your case, it does make sense, as the construct reflects item-based multipowers - and that's fine, though in such cases I'd definitely do as you did and put them in separate MPs - but for characters for whom all the power is inherent to him/her, there's no thematic reason or point reason to not put both in the same Spell Pool MP.

 

If you want to cheese out make the spells of protection be Uncontrolled, this will allow them to be turned "on" then switch to another...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

If you want to cheese out make the spells of protection be Uncontrolled' date=' this will allow them to be turned "on" then switch to another...[/quote']

 

Not bad. Continuing charges also work well for this, and more cheaply (especially given the Advantage cost for Uncontrolled), but at the cost of less flexibility.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Good point, I forgot about Uncontrolled. Using it, you could use an 80 point VPP to produce a 20/20 force field, without occupying your own effort. . .

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

I'd favor sticking primary defense and movement into a EC' date=' unless you want to make a movement multipower or make the defense inherent ( "persistant protective spells" ). Likewise for any other powers likely to be activated simultaneously.[/quote']

 

ECs don't always work well for supermage sorts of characters, as "magic powers" isn't really a tight enough grouping or theme, any more than is "mutant powers." Mutant Body-Changing Powers or Magical Flame Powers, yeah, those are fine, but the more generic terms are essentially meaningless, as they could justify any set of powers. One might as well call it "Joe's Hero's Powers" or something.

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

ECs don't always work well for supermage sorts of characters' date=' as "magic powers" isn't really a tight enough grouping or theme, any more than is "mutant powers." Mutant Body-Changing Powers or Magical Flame Powers, yeah, those are fine, but the more generic terms are essentially meaningless, as they could justify any set of powers. One might as well call it "Joe's Hero's Powers" or something.[/quote']

 

Depends on the GM, in many cases the term "Magic" means "spells" which would be fine by me...

[JmOz]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

Not bad. Continuing charges also work well for this' date=' and more cheaply (especially given the Advantage cost for Uncontrolled), but at the cost of less flexibility.[/quote']

 

True but I prefer uncontrolled, charges is to D& D for me...

 

IIRC Uncontrolled is only a +1/2, not that bad really...

 

On Charges something like:

 

Spell of the enchanted crystal 20/20 FF, OIF (Prepared Crystal), 1 recoverable 20 min charge...

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

ECs don't always work well for supermage sorts of characters' date=' as "magic powers" isn't really a tight enough grouping or theme, any more than is "mutant powers." Mutant Body-Changing Powers or Magical Flame Powers, yeah, those are fine, but the more generic terms are essentially meaningless, as they could justify any set of powers. One might as well call it "Joe's Hero's Powers" or something.[/quote']

 

Arguably true, but there's repeated precedent in Hero source material. Just off the top of my head, both Witchcraft and Talisman have an EC of supportive spells, and I know they aren't the only ones.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Archmage Stats

 

With the "recovery" condition being recasting the spell??

 

Problem is, it won't work very well that way for VPP-based spells.