Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

[tgaptte]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Or is Airborne just a special branch of the Rangers? Someone set me straight...I thought it was

 

Army-->Special Forces, Rangers

Navy-->Seals

Marines-->Recon

Airforce-->Airborne

 

What am I missing? Seems like Airborne is just a special branch of the Rangers...can anyone shed some light?

 

And...if Airborne is not the special branch of the Air Force, then what is?

 

Thanks.

 

Tim

[Slim_McCoy]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

And...if Airborne is not the special branch of the Air Force' date=' then what is?[/quote']

 

Airborne is an Army designation, but I can't give any specifics.

 

The best-known AF Spec Ops folks are Combat Control Coordinators and Para-Rescue.

 

COMBAT CONTROL APPRENTICE

 

The job of the Combat Control Apprentice is to set up assault zones in remote and sometimes hostile areas. To ensure that you can perform your job anywhere at anytime, you will receive training in precision parachuting, fast roping, rappelling and amphibious techniques. Survival training in various climates enables a Combat Control Apprentice to function under the most demanding conditions. The unique qualifications of Combat Control make them the farthest reaching communications, command and control asset for both ground and aircraft commanders

 

PARARESCUE APPRENTICE

 

When an injured soldier is down, the Pararescue Apprentice must penetrate hostile areas to rescue and recover the survivor. Specializing in Air Force and Special Operations Combat Search and Rescue/Personnel Recovery, Pararescuemen provide specialized aerospace rescue and recovery support for NASA’s Space Shuttle flights. This career field is restricted to males. Pararescuemen are certified scuba divers and skilled in surface water operations – both scuba and amphibious. They are trained Combat Medics and certified Emergency Medical Technician Paramedics (EMT-P). As a Pararescue Apprentice, you will also learn to perform emergency medical procedures in the field to correct life-threatening conditions.

 

Descriptions from http://www.airforce.com/index_fr.htm

[tgaptte]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Hey Slim, thanks for the info. Anybody else out there with Military experience who can give me a good idea about Airborne?

 

Thanks.

 

Tim

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

"Airborne", from what I can tell, just adds up to a Familiarity with parachutes. The training is supposed to be tough and physically challenging, so maybe some Characteristic increases are in order.

 

A lot of people have it, even those who don't really need it for their jobs, so I wouldn't go so far as to call it "elite", or make the package deal very expensive.

 

It is an important precursor to the elite package deals though. If there isn't some parachute experience built into the DC package deals, I'd add it. Most of the elite Army schools require Airborne training prior to attending, and from what I've heard, you actually have to parachute into the Sapper school.

[tgaptte]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

So "Airborne" isn't so much an elite unit itself, but a separate skillset learned. Whole units of "Airborne" would tend to work together because of this and would give the "appearance" that they were an elite unit. It would be the same if the army had "Waterborne" for those army soldiers amphibiously trained.

 

Thanks.

 

Tim

[pinecone]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Well airborne is sort of in between...If you visit Ft Brag and claim Airborne is Not Elite...the whole 82Nd airborne division is going to want to fight you......basicly an Airborne unit is the classic "paratrooper" there is also "Airmobile" who is the 101St....also known as "The air cavalry" deciding if they are an "Elite" unit has started many fights over the years...the "diplomatic" way to say they are Not is to point out they don't get jump pay...they then mention Flight pay...from there it goes down hill......

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Well if you want wrangle over semantic details, the whole damn Army is elite, because we wear berets, and Shinseki said so.

 

Any "eliteness" that comes from either 82nd or 101st comes from the improved mobility they have on an operational scale. Tactically speaking, they're no more elite than any other infantry unit, and less so than Rangers or Green Berets.

[pinecone]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

No arguments from me capt'n... I was posted to Ft bragg so I'm plenty familiar with the 82nd and their opinions. I was in Psy-Ops so I was in SOCOM and therefor got to hang out with "Elite" soldiers on ocasion. I remember back in the day we heard a rumor that MI was going to get berets and my quote was something like "How is dressing like a frenchman going to make me tougher?" It never happened so I still don't know the answer.....

[Vondy]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Airborn is a designation given to several light mechanized infantry divisions, such as the 101st Airborne, within the Army. The only real difference between these divisions and the regular infantry - other than a heightened state of readiness and hence a higher rate of deployment - is the fact that they are trained to jump out of airplaines and operate somewhat more independently of mainline elements. The Rangers are a specific airborne regiment that has additional training (triple volunteers), specifically in close quarters combat, hit and run tactics, ambush tactics, and small unit engagement - the rangers also have more HTH training than most soldiers, but few of them are probably "black belt level." They are essentially a form of special forces in their own right and are more likely to be dispatched for the tasks their trained for than the Special Forces are - because its what they exist for. Army Special Forces, AKA the Green Berets, are trained for a very different set of missions including deep reconassiance, intelligence gathering, insurgency, counter insurgency, military advising, sabotage, and the like. They also train in close quarters combat, but its not their primary task. The special forces has an extremely long training period (over a year) and each member of an A-Team has a specialization. The Delta Force (1st SOF Detachment) is specifically trained for hostage rescue, direct action, and "movie special forces work." They aren't particularly big, but they are extremely well trained. You will note in the mogue the two groups that got shot up were the deltas and the rangers - that's because these two groups are the "cinematic" army combat groups. There's also the 160th, which provides specially trained pilots for Army Special Forces.

 

The Navy has the Seals and the their UDT (underwater demolition techs) boys, the latter of whom go through the navy diving school with the SEALS, and from what I understand, are technically considered SEALS. The SEALS specialize in a similar set of duties as the rangers, but have additional training with advanced scuba, boats, shore landings, etc. Contrary to popular belief not all navy seals are counter terrorist experts. The DEVGRU - formerly known as Seal Team Six - is the counter-terrorism team for the Seals. They are essentially the Delta Force of the waves, though they've been regularly deployed on land missions when tasking or circumstances dictate. Like Army Special Forces SEAL training is long - over a year.

 

The Airforce has three Special Forces Designations, oddly enough. Pararescue, Combat Control, and Combat Weather Operators. Just like their Army and Navy counterparts these guys train for a very long time. Over a year. In the case of Pararescue its 18 months.

 

The marines do have an elite group. They aren't technically special forces because they aren't tasked to the Joint Special Forces Command, but they are extremely well trained - as in 18 months of ramp up training and then six months of deployment followed by six more months of training (most special forces have similar arrangements, though their deployment cycles tend to be longer and their training cycles shorter). That group is Force Recon. They do close and deep recon, marine interdiction, close quarters combat, and the like. They go through jump and scuba training like the "real special forces" and have an additional elite component that is extremely well known - the Marine Sniper.

 

All of these groups have great websites, but if you go here you will get all the answers you probably need: http://www.specialoperations.com/

[Pegasus]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Speaking as someone who has never been in the military (not that I would be accepted if I tried) this has been a very enlightening thread. Thanks everyone! Great info.

[G.W.Lerose]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

I too have found this an interesting thread. I come from a militrary heavy family(uncles, aunts, cousins, both grandfathers, etc) and my wife is an air force brat, so mostly this wasn't anything new, but still interesting. Just a side note, my Uncle who was a Ranger (until the training accident that left him in a coma for over a year) was very strongly encouraged to study martial arts on his own and became a black belt in (I can't spell it if my life depended on) karate. The impression I got from him is that the Rangers (particularly those who planned on making it a long term carreer out of it) took their rep very seriously. Many spending much of their "free" developing skills beyond the level the US felt was competent.

[PaRappaTheRappe]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

I did Airborne after AIT and was sent to 82nd Replacement at Bragg, where I was assigned to 82nd Signal. MOS 31R10. Airborne is the first step on 'the ladder', which is common at Bragg but nowhere else in the Army except maybe Benning. You see a lot of guys who have the shoulder patches in a stack: Airborne, Ranger, Special Forces. They also throw in an Air-Assault badge to go with their Jumpmaster.

 

Airborne is usually entered right after AIT and lots of guys try Ranger off the bat. As E-4(P) some go for Special Forces, but usually its at E-5 and above. It isn't hard to contact Delta to try Selection when you're at Bragg, but then again Bragg isn't anything like the rest of the Army.

 

To reiterate- Airborne is the first step on the elite track, gives you static-line jump and extra light-infantry skills. Ranger gives you air-assault, rubber-raft, and a whole lot more light-infantry oriented to raiding. Then you have a choice. You can go back to Bragg for Special Forces, where you learn long-term survival skills and insurgency / COIN for native troops. Or you can go back to Bragg, to 'Range 19', and try Selection for SODD. That's the classic direct-action HRT stuff, where you'd pick up more refined close combat skills, but always remember your points are going to be spread out over lots of different skills and HTH isn't much of a priority. You don't need to be overly athletic to get to this point, but you've got to have intestinal fortitude, so a prerequisite should be a high EGO or something similar.

[tgaptte]

Re: Martial Arts to represent "Basic Training"

 

Yes, thanks to all who participated, I got a lot more information out of this thread than the "Basic Training" packages I was looking for.

 

Very cool!

 

Tim