Just picked up 5th ed.

[Funksaw]

It was 1/2 price at the used bookstore, so I snagged it. I'll see how well my gaming group takes to it before picking up Revised, but new it means that I can buy Dark Champions, Fantasy Hero and Grimoire. Also means I might subscribe to Digital Hero.

 

I do have a question though.

 

One of the things I saw in Dark Champions was stuff like "Woo Gun Style" or something to that effect - essentially a stunt coded in as a point cost. I *really* like that - I knew Hero could emulated powers, but didn't realize how well it could emulate stunts - especially do-it-yourself stunting.

 

What's the best place I can find the following?:

 

• Action movie like stunts with prebuilt powers
  
• Asian martial-arts wuxia moves like those found in Hero
  
• Kung-fu comedy stunts like those found in Jackie Chan movies.
  
• Free-form magic systems
  
• Western gunplay schticks
  
• Asian-inspired sorcery
  
• Powers which meddle with fate and time.
  
• Powers which act as metagame mechanics, i.e., drama points/hero points/dramatic editing
  
• Odd and unusual non-superheroic settings for hero.
  
• Odd superhero settings for HERO.
  

[caris]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

I'd recommend starting with Ninja Hero, which is my favorite of the genre books. Lots of prebuilt MA goodness.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

These message boards. The search function will reveal a whole bunch of threads and topics on just about everything. Im sure theres even a post somewhere on how to properly model a pair of pants in Hero system.

Just look at old threads. oh and a couple of the hero prefab books wouldnt hurt eaither.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

At the moment I'm too tired to get into specifics of your request, but I'll return after I've gotten some sleep. In the meantime, one of the best places to start is Michael "Ninja HERO" Surbrook's incredible website, Surbrook's Stuff. It's probably the closest to one-stop HERO shopping on the 'net; much of what you've requested can be found there. You could spend literal hours surfing its bounty.

[Sociotard]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

Free-form magic systems

or

Odd and unusual non-superheroic settings for hero.[/Quote]Hidden Lands should be coming soon. It describes some weird joints such as Atlantis, the Empyreans, and Lemuria. till then,

[Funksaw]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

I thought the Grimoire books were just lists of spells.

[Steve Long]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

What's the best place I can find the following?:

 

Action movie like stunts with prebuilt powers

Asian martial-arts wuxia moves like those found in Hero

Kung-fu comedy stunts like those found in Jackie Chan movies.

 

Your best bets here are Ninja Hero and The Ultimate Martial Artist, in that order. NH sounds like it's more directly on point for what you're after, but UMA has a lot of relevant material as well -- including details and writeups for dozens of real-world martial arts styles.

 

Free-form magic systems

 

What do you mean by "free-form"? Do you mean "create your own spells on the fly"? If that's the case, there isn't any product that specifically features a system like that, but really all you need to do is give each spellcaster a Variable Power Pool, then let them pick spells as needed out of The Fantasy Hero Grimoire and The Fantasy Hero Grimoire II. They are, as you say, just collections of spells, but I think you'd still find them extremely useful and a real time-saver.

 

If that's not what you're talking about, let me know what you have in mind and we'll see what we can come up with.

 

Western gunplay schticks

 

By Western do you mean "non-Asian" or "Wild West"? In either case, your best bet is Dark Champions, but you won't find any discussion in it of the gun technology of the Wild West or such stunts as fanning the hammer. For that you'll have to wait for Western Hero, which is on our list of genre books to do someday.

 

Asian-inspired sorcery

 

We don't have any books specifically discussing Asian magic... yet. When The Ultimate Mystic comes out soon, it will cover this subject (or at least I'm guessing it will based on some questions the author's asked me, and his well-deserved reputation for quality work).

 

Powers which meddle with fate and time.

 

Check out the "Time Powers" section of The UNTIL Superpowers Database. In fact, I think you'll find that the USPD is, like the Grimoires, a really helpful book and will save you a lot of time.

 

Powers which act as metagame mechanics, i.e., drama points/hero points/dramatic editing

 

The HERO System doesn't have any rules for such things, though if you start a discussion topic about them specifically, I'm sure you'll get lots of ideas from the fans. The closest you'd come to anything "official" is my HEROglyphs column in Digital Hero #4, which discusses an optional new Power called Probability Manipulation.

 

Odd and unusual non-superheroic settings for hero.

Odd superhero settings for HERO.

 

It's tough to answer this one, since I'm not sure what you mean by "odd" and "unusual" -- one guy's "odd" is another guy's "ehhh, done that already." We have published setting books for Champions, Star Hero, and Fantasy Hero, which I'd recommend. And several fans have posted details about their own campaigns on various websites and such.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

Well, I'm back and rested. Nice to see you here on the Hero boards BTW, Funksaw. I hope you'll stop by more often.

 

Steve Long has given you some good advice and suggestions, although I have slight disagreement with him on one point. Like him I would also appreciate clarification on what you would consider "non-standard" settings, but I'm going to throw out a few that I consider particularly innovative and/or well done, and you can see what works for you. I'd also appreciate a definition of "freeform magic," although if it's what Steve Long is using as an operating assumption, there are three approaches to it that I've seen in HERO: Variable Power Pools into which you can slot any Power ability you wish (usually a very expensive option in Character Points); the Power Skill which lets you modify your Powers in new and improvised ways (but if you want to keep using a particular iteration regularly you need to buy it to add to your Character Sheet); or Powers with the Variable Advantage and/or Variable Special Effects Advantages.

 

For action-movie stunts using Powers, Dark Champions has a sizeable chapter on a new construct called "Super Skills" which uses that exact premise. If you'd like to see a number of examples created by fans here on the website, check out the Super-Skills Megathread.

 

For martial arts moves, I agree that Ninja HERO in combination with Ultimate Martial Artist would be just the ticket. The latter is a detailed listing and writeup of numerous martial arts styles, abilities and weapons (real, historical and fictional); while the former provides extensive guidelines and examples for running all styles and power levels of martial arts campaign from gritty to DBZ cosmic. For suggestions specifically relating to the movie "Hero", you might want to check this thread. If your concept of "martial arts moves" also includes stuff from the game Feng Shui, you'll benefit from Michael Surbrook's Fu Schticks For Champions article.

 

This would make a good seque to your other concern, comic martial arts moves. Mr. Surbrook has a very nice writeup of Jackie Chan, as well as Bruce Lee and various other action stars in his collection of Hong Kong Action Heros! The section on the movie Big Trouble in Little China also includes a few bits of "cinematic" Oriental magic, although not much.

 

Speaking of Oriental sorcery, probably the best treatment I've seen of it for HERO System was in the 4E Champions supplement, Watchers of the Dragon by Steven S. Long. Although it's billed as more of a martial arts campaign sourcebook/worldbook, the writeup of the sorcerous master villain Dr. Yin Wu includes a fairly large selection of spells based on abilities and motifs from Chinese legend. A few of them might be too powerful for heroic level games, but they're easy to tailor by lowering the Active Points and/or adding a few Limitations. Obviously WotD is no longer in print, but I could suggest retailers where you could find it if you'd like - it really is an excellent book IMHO, and almost wholly usable with 5E. (There is another minor source for Oriental sorcery which is part of a Setting recommendation).

 

There is another fine 4E sourcebook, Western HERO, with some good ideas for "Western gunplay schticks" as well as general campaigning in an Old West setting. Again, I could point you to good places to look for it, although I think that the combat Skills in the 5E rulebook, plus Dark Champions, will give you most of what you will need.

 

For time/fate powers, Steve's suggestion of the prebuilt Power constructs in the UNTIL Superpowers Database is a very good one. This is one of the most generally useful books in the Champions line, a great time-saver for character building and a vast source of ideas even if you don't use a particular build. If you'd like to see examples, there is a very large Online USPD with builds by both Steve Long and submissions by fans.

 

One point on which I respectfully disagree with Steve is the option for metagame mechanics in the system. If you check the description of the "Luck" Power in 5E, you'll see several options for using it to change the results of die rolls in-game which go against your character. You do have to have bought Luck for your character to be able to do that, though. OTOH there are house options being used in various people's campaigns, and I can direct you to a couple online. Amazing Adventures! which is a HERO pulp campaign using the setting from White Wolf's Adventure! game, adapts the concept of Inspiration points, while Thrilling True Tales, another pulp campaign, employs Action Points! (their exclamation, not mine ) as part of their House Rules.

 

I hope you find that useful. I'll be back when I have more time with setting recommendations; but in the meantime I recommend perusing the "Hero Links" link in the blue banner at the top of this page. Lots of great fan-created stuff out there.

[Funksaw]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

Thanks for the links!

[Funksaw]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

RE: Steve Long:

 

By Free-form, I do mean "create spells on the fly" much like Ars Magica or Mage. That said, I realize that VPP pretty much does the same thing, but figuring out the costs involved and the powers used on the fly tend to be problematic and slow down the game. Instead, I've decided to work on a "module" which should - I hope - be as integrated with the core rules as possible. Maybe a writeup for DH? That, is, ol course, once I get the damn thing written up and get someone more familiar with H5 to help me.

 

By western gunplay schticks, I do mean wild-west. Dark Champions will likely be my best bet, I agree.

 

If anything, I"m a bit confused about "The Mystic World" - I had assumed that it was a suppliment for Fantasy Hero or Champions - does this stand alone? Can it be used in modern campaigns?

 

By powers which meddle with fate and time, I'm thinking powers like transfering luck to another person up to seven generations, retroactively not being in the fight in the first place, being able to tell the best course of action... okay, you've got me - I'm thinking that maybe HERO might be the game system that can get my GURPS-oriented friends into trying Sidereal Exalted in a modern setting - though I won't call it that...

 

As for odd settings - one of my big problems with GURPS and why I became increasingly frustrated with them is they had a great system with lackluster setting support - Steampunk and Steamtech were great, but there was no Steamworld. Technomancer was a bit rough, GURPS IOU was great, but... very silly... and most of the other settings are licenced (and I can likely do those myself) Champions already has great support in settings, and I can see that HERO's got fantasy, sci-fi, and superhero settings to choose from. What I'm wondering is if HERO's going to develop something less along the beaten path, even if it's a DH article. Something like Starchildren, Fvlminata, even Aberrant. Now, one of the reasons I'm really into Vibora Bay is that it looks like a magic-in-modern-day setting, a la Hellblazer/Mage/Unknown Armies. The further away that Vibora gets from 4 color, the better, for this particular buyer (might not be better for your company, but hey.) I'm either looking for stuff way out there, or significant twists on old genres.

[Steve Long]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

OK, thanx for the additional info.

 

For your VPP-based "on the fly" spell system, I think you can probably accomplish the vast majority of what you want with pre-generated spell effects, such as those in the FHG and FHG2. After all, even highly free-form systems like Ars Magica and Mage feature a lot of pre-generated spells to make them easier to use. HERO's no different in that regard -- a little advance work goes a long way in terms of in-play utility. But if you feel like trying to develop a system on your own -- go for it! After all, we encourage tinkering 'round here. You're welcome to submit a proposal for a DH article when you're satisfied with whatever you create, but I'll leave it up to ace editor Dave Mattingly to decide whether to accept it or not.

 

The Mystic World is a look at the mystic side of the Champions Universe -- the movers and shakers, the Multiverse, the spells, and so on. But it's not restricted to that; it could easily be used for all sorts of things.

 

Re: fate and time powers, I think the system can handle that sort of thing just fine. It's just a matter of figuring out the ultimate game effect and simulating that in rules terms. I suspect you'll find yourself making a lot of use of Extra-Dimensional Movement, Usable On Others, and Transdimensional (the dimension here being "time," of course).

 

Re: settings, right now most of what we've got probably wouldn't qualify for "odd" in light of what you're describing. We start with settings that have more mainstream appeal, and based on how those do and our own general interests, we go on to do more unusual things. For example, some of our upcoming Fantasy settings, such as The Valdorian Age and Tuala Morn, aren't anything like any product currently on the market that I'm aware of (though I don't know if they'd qualify as truly "odd"). We don't have anything planned that would be as off the beaten path as, say, Tekumel or Jorune, but if the market demands it we'll get there eventually. I find designing settings like that a lot of fun.

[arcady]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

What genre(s) do you intend to focus on?

 

That will naturally shape your purchases. I think the second grimoire at least is more fitting to Champions than to Fantasy Hero (too expensive and too high of effects), but the concepts can be mined down to spells for Fantasy Hero.

 

The Fantasy Hero book itself has a section on magic system design that will tell you how to do free form magic systems. "The Gift" in particular is a good example.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

I've been experimenting with Luck in my Hell Trek game to perform the equivalent of cinematic tricks. I've got some idea for some "limited luck" talents based on the character archetypes to give a boost in the character's area of expertise (a Strongman talent might give bonus luck points when performing a feat of strength, a Swashbuckler talent might give bonuses when performing acrobatics or fighting with improvised weapons), etc.

 

I'll see if I can find some time tomorrow to write them up and post them in a separate thread.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Just picked up 5th ed.

 

All right, Funksaw, let me see if I can hook you up with some settings that are a little less mainstream :

 

Since you envinced interest in Hero Games's upcoming Vibora Bay sourcebook, you may be interested in The Kandris Seal, a very fully developed, focussed "super mage" campaign. It's a licensed HERO System product from Hartfelt Productions, available in e-book format on CD here on the HG Online Store, or as a download from RPGnow (link on the Hartfelt homepage).

 

For an innovative fan-created supers campaign, I'd suggest The Wild Hunt for supers with a strong fantasy-magic flavor.

 

There are a couple of distinctive supers settings upcoming from smaller publishers, like Scott Bennie's Gestalt for HERO and M&M, but they're not yet available.

 

As for other types of settings, there's a fairly wide selection. The Worldbooks section of "Surbrook's Stuff" which I mentioned earlier has several pretty solid settings, mostly based on or inspired by various manga and anime. Note that the samples of Kazei Five are taken from an actual published e-book, a unique anime-style cyberpunk sourcebook. It's also available from the Online Store.

 

Other parts of Mike's website detail settings which could be expanded upon for full campaigns, or cannibalized for your own setting. These include the anime series Cowboy Bebop (similar to the late Firefly TV series, Hellsing (vampire-hunting organization), and Striker (modern action/adventure). The Montauk Project has lots of stuff great for weird-connspiracy campaigns.

 

StarHeroFandom.com is a kind of central reference for sci-fi campaigns using HERO. There are a couple of things there that might particularly interest you. Guardians of Quartermain is set on an alien world which is the diplomatic hub for a cooperative of several races, including humans. It has a strong diplomacy/intrigue flavor.

 

Also, if you happen to be fond of the unique setting for the game Shadowrun, but are less fond of the actual mechanics of it, SHF.com contains a very thorough conversion of the Shadowrun setting and conventions to HERO System, under the title of Shadowpunk.

 

For a different spin on the post-apocalyptic genre, I recommend Keith Curtis's Savage Earth game world. It mixes ancient technology with rediscovered magic, with a flavor like a more serious version of the old Thundarr the Barbarian Saturday-morning cartoon.

 

These next few are interesting takes on historical gaming. First up is Sengoku for HERO System. This isn't a translation of the game from Gold Rush Games, but a complete web sourcebook in its own right, with maps, NPCs and adventures. Note that in the "Background" section you'll find a link to notes on the setting's magic system, which you may find suitable for other Oriental campaigns.

 

Continuing the far-eastern motif, Wuxia HERO not only provides lots of info for running Oriental-based martial-arts games, but a great deal of historical info and detail to base a campaign in China circa 1672: regional and cultural information, notable individuals and events, etc.

 

Regency HERO provides guidelines and rules options for campaigning in Europe in the late 18th - early 19th centuries. It's still in development and doesn't yet provide everything you would need, but there's quite a bit of useful stuff to build on.

 

I hope you find something here that interests you.