High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

[Chuckg]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

A Cosmic Skill VPP would be significantly cheaper, and even more powerful.

[OddHat]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Actually' date=' didn't Star Hero have the "Computer-Net Galactic Library Database" of all human knowledge, with KS and SS and AK at 60-, with the "-5 per category stepped down" rule allowing you an effective 15- for any detailed roll?[/quote']

 

The thought that it might have is almost enough to make me look for a copy of Star Hero. I based the above on the Impossible Use of Skills rule in FRED (for -10 you can use your skills to perform impossible feats) and a character in Galactic Champions built with KS:All The Knowledge of His People at 30 or less.

 

I'd only allow that "skill" or the above version in a very silly campaign.

[Chuckg]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

*finds his own copy of Star Hero*

 

Yup, it's in there, in the sidebar under adjudicating what sort of things a high-tech planetary infonet can provide.

 

Similar text is repro'ed re: the Galactic ComputerNet in Terran Empire.

[Gary]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

What is the point of rules raping and munchkining 1000 pt characters into 350 pts? If it's an NPC, points don't really matter and it's a lot cleaner and simpler to simply build them on 1000 to begin with. If it's a PC, it's completely irrelevant since no GM in his right mind will allow such a munchkined character in the first place.

 

If you want a NPC with every skill, why not simply pay 200 pts to buy each skill, instead of paying 10 or so for an abusive skill VPP?

[nexus]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

What is the point of rules raping and munchkining 1000 pt characters into 350 pts? If it's an NPC, points don't really matter and it's a lot cleaner and simpler to simply build them on 1000 to begin with. If it's a PC, it's completely irrelevant since no GM in his right mind will allow such a munchkined character in the first place.

 

If you want a NPC with every skill, why not simply pay 200 pts to buy each skill, instead of paying 10 or so for an abusive skill VPP?

 

I think you might need the VPP to cover obscure KS, PS, and Sciences if you literally knew EVERYTHING humanity has ever known and can perform it as well. But otherwise, yeah, I can see your point.

[Gary]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

I think you might need the VPP to cover obscure KS' date=' PS, and Sciences if you literally knew EVERYTHING humanity has ever known and can perform it as well. But otherwise, yeah, I can see your point.[/quote']

 

 

A friend of mine has extended the Universal Translator talent to other skills. For 15 pts, you can purchase Worldly Scientist which gives a 8- roll with any science skill that you haven't purchased already and which it's plausible that you would have a passing acquaintance with. It also gives an additional 1 pt discount on any science skill on top of the Scientist perk. For 20 pts, the perk is upgraded to Universal Scientist, and the roll becomes 11-.

 

Skill levels of any kind cannot add to this 8- or 11- roll.

 

There's also a Worldly and Universal equivalent of Scholar, Traveller, and Jack of all Trades. These cost 5 pts less than Scientist since in his game, the sciences are generally more useful.

 

He also allows you if you've bought Universal Translator, to spend just 1 pt per language for native fluency.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Okay, definately power pool...

 

Telepathy: Normal Telepathy. And aid to Telepathy. And cumulative telepathy. etcetera. He'll have _something_ to fit the situation at hand.

 

Mind Control: A nifty trick here vs crowds is 'broadcast telepathy' + gargantuan PRE. Vs individuals, well, see telepathy. Add in transformation. Might take more than 'instaneous' sometimes... then again, time is fairly arbitrary.

 

Astral Projection: Well clairsentience is useful. EDM (Astral Plane) actually fits the Cinematic Effects... and transdimensional is cheaper than affects solid world.

 

Aiding/Supressing Powers: Well, buying the normal power with mental SFX isn't too difficult. Not sure how, precisely, this works for X though...

 

There's a lot of scope for 'omnipotence' with power pools. Bonus Fun Fact: Telepathy without Telekinesis is a limited form of a Psionics Power Pool... so you get a limitation.

 

The real trick is figuring out how powerful he maxes at ( active point total of pool ), and how much ease he has of use ( cosmic or semicosmic, and possibly reduced END ).

 

And there's always my old "supplementary +VPP with limitations. . ."

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

From what I have seen of the show' date=' I'd give cartoon supes less DR against Energy. Or at least less ED. Energy attacks seem to drop him faster, at least somewhat faster. Or it seems.[/quote']

 

True. Either that, or everybody in the entire series has x2 Stun from Electricity. . .

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

And he is mildly telekinetic as well. At least enough to levitate his chair and telekinetically screw with people's brains (releasing chemicals' date=' popping blood vessels, stuff like that).[/quote']

 

Ultimate Xavier only, though; normal Charles has no TK. And releasing chemicals in the brain is just as readily a telepathic trick ( controlling certain lower brain functions to trigger endocrine system ).

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

To build cleanly and simply, probably. But I habitually aim for 60 AP as the ceiling for any given effect, so I have some creative workarounds...

Thats way below what either Xavier regularly does. Normal humans have no shot at resisting his effects.

 

As for Endurance Costs... I always thought reduced END went inside the pool, not on the pool. As such, it doesn't cost that much (due to powers being bought with many advantages, in accordance with The Third Law of Point Squeezing).

You can buy 0 End on the control cost to allow for higher AP ceilings. I prefer that route.

 

Not really a massive expense, though. IIRC, 'Nobel Prize Winner' is like 20pts in skills. Skills only cost a lot when you have Action Hero or SuperGenius level competence.

The thing is, in terms of some areas ( mainly mutant genetics ), he *is* supergenius level. He built Cerebro, after all.

 

He's probably better rounded (Defenses for example). And he actually IS the CU Xavier, built without _much_ in the way of point trickery, and with the nifty power bost of being The Bad Guy. All of that adds up to a higher points cost.

 

I disagree, I do not see Menton having any more raw power than Xavier. Granted, he does have TK powers that Xavier doesn't.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

I thought the chair hovered 'cause it had some kind of flight device built in. (Or at least is like Cerebro; gives him capabilities he doesn't naturally have)

 

And tk brain screw could either be 'my mind over your matter' (i.e. humans have the capability to do that to themselves), or just 'my powers affect the mind only, but ANY part of the mind'.

 

Either way, he can't use his colossal powers to erect a force bubble or throw around helicopters, so he is limited. Which was the point.

 

Actually, I think Ultimate Xavier can at least break cars in half with TK. . .

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Chances are a 200pt character who can take on a 350pt character is a walking deathtrap with either life threatening limitations or worsre charges, which are fine unless the battle is prolonged. I too can build a scary low point high yield character, but the point is a character that isn't point widgited. As for ring slinger being a one trick pony, he's basically Green Lantern or Iron Man. Although I didn't give him a specific name, he is a well thought out character. As for beating him, If I was playing the ring slinger, I don't believe that you could beat him with a 200pter, but that's not the point. The fact is that neight your 200pter or my 450pter are what could be called high enders.

 

As for going head to head with DD or Tak, I was implying that either's goons could wipe the floor with the Sentinels or the Champions. I'm not even sure the aforementioned teams can take on Euro Star or Gravitar.

 

Champions, definitely not. Eurostar outnumbers them and outpoints them by a fair margin, and Gravitar is designed as a teambuster. Sentinels, well, *my* Sentinels could take either on, but the canon current ones, simple answer is: We don't know. All we know about the current Sentinels are the names, and one or two have some background known.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Plus' date=' I think magnetic levitation technology is within the SHIELD tech base -- and Lord knows that no matter how secret the lab is, Ult Xavier would just pick their brains anyway.[/quote']

 

I don't know, they might have sufficient antipsi shielding to keep him out. OTOH, they are probably the *only* ones.

 

As for brain-popping, frankly, whether TK or TP, I'd still do it as a BOECV RKA.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Oh' date=' quite. I was just addressing whether that simidgen of TK took his powerset out 'No TK'. IMO, not really... it's still a 'tele-hypno' type power.[/quote']

 

I'd probably do his TK as a separate power, maybe a small EC. From what I've seen, its nowhere near as powerful as his TP.

 

Even if it were full telepathy and telekinesis, I'd still say its worth a -1/4 limitation. There's still plenty of stuff you can't do with that, barring truly cosmic "I can move molecules around one by one" telekinesis and "My mind is one with all life in the cosmos" telepathy.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

That Telepathic skill Power is just...nasty. When you think about the implication of being to steal basically any human ability at the level of its greatest experts. That is one awesome ability. If I could get a Super Power that would be pretty high on the list.

 

If I were writing him up, I'd probably make the teleskill an entirely separate VPP, just so as to make sure it stays under a certain amount. Then again, Ult Xavier might just be able to mimic any skill possessed by any human to any level. . .

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Actually' date=' didn't Star Hero have the "Computer-Net Galactic Library Database" of all human knowledge, with KS and SS and AK at 60-, with the "-5 per category stepped down" rule allowing you an effective 15- for any detailed roll?[/quote']

 

Yep. OTOH, those skills had to go down a couple more category steps, due to being galactic in scope; if it were limited to just humanities collective knowledge, it might be a step or two cheaper.

[Metaphysician]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

What is the point of rules raping and munchkining 1000 pt characters into 350 pts? If it's an NPC, points don't really matter and it's a lot cleaner and simpler to simply build them on 1000 to begin with. If it's a PC, it's completely irrelevant since no GM in his right mind will allow such a munchkined character in the first place.

 

If you want a NPC with every skill, why not simply pay 200 pts to buy each skill, instead of paying 10 or so for an abusive skill VPP?

 

Well, in this case, because 200 points wouldn't buy "every" skill. Yeah, all the basic ones listed, but not all the permutations of KS, PS, SS, AK, and so on.

 

In some cases, its justified by special effect, though I agree that under most circumstances, skills should just be bought.

[Nightfire]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

A friend of mine has extended the Universal Translator talent to other skills. For 15 pts, you can purchase Worldly Scientist which gives a 8- roll with any science skill that you haven't purchased already and which it's plausible that you would have a passing acquaintance with. It also gives an additional 1 pt discount on any science skill on top of the Scientist perk. For 20 pts, the perk is upgraded to Universal Scientist, and the roll becomes 11-.

 

Skill levels of any kind cannot add to this 8- or 11- roll.

 

There's also a Worldly and Universal equivalent of Scholar, Traveller, and Jack of all Trades. These cost 5 pts less than Scientist since in his game, the sciences are generally more useful.

 

He also allows you if you've bought Universal Translator, to spend just 1 pt per language for native fluency.

 

 

And its a very fine system too It even encourages the purchasing of the skills at the discounted price to be the master of many disciplines, Since the problem with having only a passing knowledge is that just like Universal translator, you cannot actively use the sciences, Knowledges, etc, only either in relation to what you already know, or in conjunction with people who actually have said skill. The perfect exampe is JAred from the pretender. He seems to be capable of performing any job, but only when he is with people who actually know what they are doing.

[freakboy6117]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

just curious would the akashic record thing work for building john doe from the tv show? ive been trying to figure out hwo to do that without it costing the earth

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

 

1. Thats way below what either Xavier regularly does. Normal humans have no shot at resisting his effects.

 

2. You can buy 0 End on the control cost to allow for higher AP ceilings. I prefer that route.

 

3. The thing is, in terms of some areas ( mainly mutant genetics ), he *is* supergenius level. He built Cerebro, after all.

 

4. I disagree, I do not see Menton having any more raw power than Xavier. Granted, he does have TK powers that Xavier doesn't.

 

1) 'Irresistable' Mental Powers are often better bought as non-Mental Powers. Also, if normal humans have no shot, then so do 90% of supers... unless, of course, normals are weakened in some way. (4pts of ego is often the only differance...)

 

2) (shrug)

 

3) So +7 pts or so for a 20- on his 'MetaTechnology' skill roll. Or something. He's no Reed Richards; this still won't cost that much.

 

4) The structure which my 'average CU campaign' fits will have our "Professor Z" (the PC X-clone) acknowledged as having as much non-com ability as Menton (and really, after a certain level of Power Pool, there is zip all difference)... and actually be able to go head to head with him when it's time for the GM to turn to his character sheet page.

(Of course, in _theory_ Prof. Z never powered up... but we know better, yes we does... ))

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

What is the point of rules raping and munchkining 1000 pt characters into 350 pts? If it's an NPC, points don't really matter and it's a lot cleaner and simpler to simply build them on 1000 to begin with. If it's a PC, it's completely irrelevant since no GM in his right mind will allow such a munchkined character in the first place.

 

If you want a NPC with every skill, why not simply pay 200 pts to buy each skill, instead of paying 10 or so for an abusive skill VPP?

 

Well, the point of building on 350 not 1000 is clear: It's so they can be PC's, and to avoid giving Players 1000pts to spend. (Btw, I HATED having 1000 points to spend because I have to spend so freaking long just spending the points...). And they're 'munchkined' so that they can be high end, _and still able to be given experience meaningfully_...

 

Well, _I_ never advocated Skills in power pools. I advocated stuff like:

SuperClimbing: Clinging, Usable by Others (OIF: Climbing Gear)

and

BeenHere: Clairsentience, only to know locations of places. (Options: Retrocognition, Only to know back history, Precognition: Only to know what's gonna happen here...)

[Gary]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

Well, the point of building on 350 not 1000 is clear: It's so they can be PC's, and to avoid giving Players 1000pts to spend. (Btw, I HATED having 1000 points to spend because I have to spend so freaking long just spending the points...). And they're 'munchkined' so that they can be high end, _and still able to be given experience meaningfully_...

 

Well, _I_ never advocated Skills in power pools. I advocated stuff like:

SuperClimbing: Clinging, Usable by Others (OIF: Climbing Gear)

and

BeenHere: Clairsentience, only to know locations of places. (Options: Retrocognition, Only to know back history, Precognition: Only to know what's gonna happen here...)

 

 

If you want to play a higher level campaign, why not simply give the players more points to begin with? And give more XP if you want them to grow faster. It's a lot easier and cleaner than having everyone with -2 in meaningless limitations.

 

Since you seem to be the only one who thinks that Professor X can be built on 350, then I challenge you to do so. Show us your 350 pt version of Professor X who can do all the things that Professor X can do, and do it without using cheesy stuff like Charges of End Reserve or Area Effect Selective Megascale. Use 5th edition rules.

 

I'm genuinely curious to see what you come up with.

[Agent X]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

There is nothing wrong with running a 350 point character or 1,000 point character.

 

But if you think you can model to exact scale most or all major superheroes in the comic books with 350 points, you need to go reread the comics.

[Nightfire]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

There is nothing wrong with running a 350 point character or 1,000 point character.

 

But if you think you can model to exact scale most or all major superheroes in the comic books with 350 points, you need to go reread the comics.

 

I have to agree with you there, a concervative version of Batman is about 800 points, I have a Batmanesque heroine named Artemis who tops the scale at 1450 and she's not even what one would consider over the top, just happenes to have almost 800pts in relevant skills to reflect how she (or Bats) conducts business.

 

The main character Conan from "Cased CLosed" is supposed to be a six year old boy, but the necessary skills, the knowlege skills, the physical skills, and the gadgets put him as a 150+ character, and he doesn't even have powers.

[The Watcher]

Re: High End Cannoical Character in Champions Universe

 

As has been said before some of the people involved in this this isn't a comic book' date=' its a role playing game. Somethings that work in comics don't work in this medium. In my experience, this has been one of them. YMM (and clearly does)V.[/quote']So you've never run or played in a Spiderman-level campaign set in the Marvel Universe or a reasonable analog thereof?