New To Hero: Character Advancement

[awall]

Playing City of Heroes online has made me consider running a heroes game. A while back I picked up the Sidekick, Champion, powers, and gadgets books at someones recommendation. Hero's take on things kinda stunned me and my campaign never really got off the ground. Now I am willing to take a 2nd look at things and after glancing through the rules again I kinda missed something. I didn't see the section on Character Advancement. Did I miss something or would someone please point me to where (page number) it can be found?

 

Thanks for your help.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Playing City of Heroes online has made me consider running a heroes game. A while back I picked up the Sidekick, Champion, powers, and gadgets books at someones recommendation. Hero's take on things kinda stunned me and my campaign never really got off the ground. Now I am willing to take a 2nd look at things and after glancing through the rules again I kinda missed something. I didn't see the section on Character Advancement. Did I miss something or would someone please point me to where (page number) it can be found?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I don't have SIDEKICK, but I suspect you can find what you're looking for by going to the index and looking up "Experience." Advancement in HERO isn't a matter of levels and such, but merely a matter of earning experience points (XP) and spending them (as Character Points) to improve/purchase Skills, Powers, Characteristics, etc.

[Reneshat]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

I'm not sure about page numbers, but you just award a few points (generally between 2 and 5) after each mission.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

It is on page 81 in Sidekick (near the bottom of the left column), and yes, it is easy to miss. It takes up less than half of one column on the page, including the table.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Its a standard point based progression.

 

Each point of XP = 1 Character Point to spend on an ability. What it's spent on is between the Player & GM and is relative to the character.

 

 

Thus if you had a session where you awarded 3 XP to a character, they could spend that 3 pts on a new skill, 3 pts of STR, 1 pt of DEX, 3 STUN, or anything else 3 points can purchase.

 

Whether some period of training or development is required is up to the GM.

[Rapier]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Whether some period of training or development is required is up to the GM.

Yeah, I just had a character come back from hiatus. He was off running around the wilderness learning to use his new shapeshift power. His player was running another somebody with a little bit of TK.

[awall]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

It is on page 81 in Sidekick (near the bottom of the left column)' date=' and yes, it is easy to miss. It takes up less than half of one column on the page, including the table.[/quote']

Thanks. I always hate asking for something that I know should be in the book because I looks like I am too lazy to look for it. It's nice to know that it's there. I was fearing there wasn't a system setup to handle Advancement, and an RPG without advancement of anykind is a system I don't want to play.

Thanks for your help. Now I can get started.

 

Awall

[Steve Long]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Good luck with your campaign, Awall! You've already found one of the best resources around -- these boards. If you have any questions, feel free to post 'em here to get all kinds of great advice from fellow players and GMs. And you're always welcome to e-mail 'em to me at SteveL@herogames.com if you prefer.

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

I've just started playing Hero, but the XP rate we receive from our GM is only 1 per gaming session.

 

Is that pretty low? It seems like it to me.

 

In other games I've played D20, Rolemaster, Gurps, it seemed you could do more with your development points.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

no 1 point per session is fine depending on how long your sessions are and how often you meet and how much of a challenge you over came.

 

I tend to give out 1 point per session then bump it up if people did an exceptionally good job at roleplaying their character, used solid tactics and strategy and were very challenged by an encounter, etc. Or if I know there are a limited number of sessions in the campaign and want to emphasize character growth or some such. regulating how those points get spent can be fairly important to make sure you have characters that are more than 1 dimensional combat machines. I've also given out contacts as rewards, or specific skill familiarities, etc.

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

alas...seems like a flat rate of just 1 per.

 

I do like HERO, but I must say, the development point aspect of it (at this rate anyways) is pretty lame. However, the character seems to be more potent at the start...so perhaps that's the balance?

[Zeropoint]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Don't be too quick to dismiss a single point. One point will get you a point of STR or two points of COM, or a new familiarity. Two points will increase a skill. Three will get you a point of DEX, or a single-attack combat skill level.

 

 

However, the character seems to be more potent at the start...so perhaps that's the balance?

 

That's a big part of it. A level one D&D character pretty much sucks, especially if it's a magic-user. A starting HERO character (depending on genre and point level) might be able to ignore bullets and punch through a reinforced concrete wall.

 

Also realize that the rate of character advancement is not set by the system, but by the individual GM, so it will vary from game to game.

 

Zeropoint

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Yeah, I guess it can vary from game to game.

 

I'm pretty generous with the Rolemaster group that I GM, so it's kind of the opposite situation for this HERO campaign where I just run a character.

 

Problem is...there are some very basic skills that I had to pass over in order to make this guy potent enough to survive any combat encounters.

 

Can't swim, can't climb, can't do a lot of basic stuff. That's the rub I guess. I suppose I could have built the character with more skills, but then sucked during combat...

I guess I'm still too much of a newbie to be able to find the right balance. In the meantime I'll have to keep rolling -8 or under to keep breathing/walking etc. ;-) I hope to have accumulated enough points for that stuff in another year or so...

[Zeropoint]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Are you playing Fantasy HERO? Or some other genre? Also, have you put your character through any combat in the game yet? It's possible that your GM is making the encounters too hard--if you have to ignore non-combat skills completely just to survive, then I'd say that game isn't balanced quite right.

 

As far as swimming goes, you get 2" of swimming for free, so unless you sold it back, your character can swim just fine already.

 

Zeropoint

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Yeah, we are playing Fantasy Hero.

We were allowed to start with 75 points and 75 points in disadvantages.

 

So far have been doing quite well in combat...I developed an Archer and also took penalty skills so that called shots are more easily successful. (I mitigated the -8 against head/vitals shots by developing the penalty skill to +5, so now just a minus 3 to aim for the head or vitals.) Came in handy when shooting at some trolls gonads recently. The 2x Killing damage makes a huge difference.

 

But the character limitations on other stuff due to a minimum array of skills is starting to rear it's head.

 

Kind of coming to the conclusion that my character will be unbalanced this way for a quite a long time, as at this rate of XP development it will be a long time before I can round out the character correctly.

[Blue]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

My group would feel ripped off by 1 pt. But then a game session for us is as much as 12 hours (minus dinner break).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

IMX, 1 XP/session is the absolute minimum. That's what you get just for showing up and not disrupting the game for the other players. Pretty much no matter how badly you screw up (the ambassador you were supposed to protect got killed, you accidentally blew up an innocent old lady's house, killed a dozen innocent bystanders and a dog, you said, "Hey, you in the evil-looking skull mask! Is this your nuclear bomb? Here you go!" and wet your pants in front of the national news cameras), you still get the one point. If you actually succeed in your mission, you get another point. If you make a particularly important contribution to the effort, another point. If the adventure was particularly difficult, another point. etc.

[Rapier]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

1 XP is a little low, but not tragically so. Maybe there is something you are missing with your character that could free up some points. If you got HD you should post your character, maybe there is something we can see that will help out.

 

 

Does everyone get only 1 XP? THAT would seem more strange than anything. It's Socialist Roleplaying! From each according to his ability, to each 1 XP.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

The reward should equal the rate of advancement you want to experience, based on play schedules and what not. I generally reward 2 pts/4 hour session, +1-3 at the conculsion of each adventure based on how well the group did.

 

If I'm using a fate/xp system, then that can change, but my players like a little more advancement than 1 per. Now, if the characters could not realistically spend time working on their skills (i.e. deep in a dungeon), I don't give them anything... until they get out. Then if the dungeon was 3 sessions long, and a conclusion of the adventure they might get 3x2 = 6 + 1-3 = 7-9 pts total in one shot. Considering that 10pts can get you +1 with any skill roll, that's a pretty big deal.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Yeah, I guess it can vary from game to game.

 

I'm pretty generous with the Rolemaster group that I GM, so it's kind of the opposite situation for this HERO campaign where I just run a character.

 

Problem is...there are some very basic skills that I had to pass over in order to make this guy potent enough to survive any combat encounters.

 

Can't swim, can't climb, can't do a lot of basic stuff. That's the rub I guess. I suppose I could have built the character with more skills, but then sucked during combat...

I guess I'm still too much of a newbie to be able to find the right balance. In the meantime I'll have to keep rolling -8 or under to keep breathing/walking etc. ;-) I hope to have accumulated enough points for that stuff in another year or so...

You might want to look up "Everyman Skills".

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Hmm...I'm a newbie, but I thought the GM determines what can be picked as "everyman" skills? I could be wrong tho? I'll ask my GM about it.

[mattingly]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

There's nothing wrong with 1 XP per game. Especially in a Fantasy Hero game, where character can get more powerful by the stuff they find and keep. Sure, you could get more XP, or you can take this magic sword. Just think of it as the GM pre-spending XP on cool stuff to give you.

 

Anyway, compared to lavel-based gaming systems, Hero's progression might seem smaller/slower, but it is continuous. Instead of playing through 4 or 5 game sessions in order to "level up" and get enough XP to buy a new spell or two, or a new weapon familiarity and combat level, Hero lets you spend XP the instant you earn it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Hmm...I'm a newbie' date=' but I thought the GM determines what can be picked as "everyman" skills? I could be wrong tho? I'll ask my GM about it.[/quote']

Yes, the GM determines the list, but basic stuff like Stealth and Climbing that any idjit can attempt are pretty universally included.

[Skouser]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

We can't use the XP unless we train. 1 month of training per XP point.

 

We didn't get charged experience for the treasure from the last dungeon though, so I can see that being an added benefit?

 

Regardless, I still think character advancement in this system is pretty much at a snail pace compared to the other systems I've played. Good or bad, that seems to be the case. I don't have enough experience with the system to judge whether that is designed to maintain game balance, but whatever...it's still fun.

[Zeropoint]

Re: New To Hero: Character Advancement

 

Regardless, I still think character advancement in this system is pretty much at a snail pace compared to the other systems I've played. Good or bad, that seems to be the case. I don't have enough experience with the system to judge whether that is designed to maintain game balance, but whatever...it's still fun.

 

As I said before, this isn't the system, it's your specific GM and game. If I was running a superhero game that I expected to last for about six months to a year, I'd be giving out 2-3 XP per week, or maybe a little more. For a 75+75 fantasy game where the players don't have to pay points for equipment, that might be a little much. [edit: On the other hand, only giving 1 point per session AND requiring a month of in-game training is pretty harsh]

 

1 point per session might seem a little low, but you can get +1 OCV with a specific attack (all longbows, for instance) for only 2 XP. Does D20 let you get a +1 to-hit every other session?

 

Regarding Everyman skills, it is true that the GM gets to decide what will be on that list, but both FRED and the genre books give sample lists, and if the GM isn't letting you have those skills, he's ignoring an optional but important part of the game--Everyman skills are the equivalent of D20's "usable untrained" skills: things that anyone can attempt, whether they've practiced it or not, and have some chance of success.

 

Finally, if you could post your character here, whether as a Hero Designer file or in text, we (I feel confident in speaking for the entire board here, as this is an uncommonly helpful bunch) could perhaps point out a way to get more for your points.

 

Zeropoint