Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

[FenrisUlf]

Not the PCs, but maybe to help show just /how dangerous/ some villains and organizations are in the Champs Universe (or your own), deliberatly making up a hero or three who get on the bad side of VIPER or Destroyer, make some DUMB mistakes, survive long enough to have some history with the PCs -- and then get killed in horrid fashion.

 

Just to help get the idea across that these people are truly as dangerous as shown in their soucebooks. And maybe so the PCs won't do anything too recklessly stupid (and get a reason to personally dislike the villains).

 

Good idea, bad idea, or what?

[Blue]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

I've killed off heroes as a matter of course, but not inserted one so that deliberately I could nuke him later on. I prefer to have this happen more organically than deliberately.

 

But if you need for something like this to happen in order to further your plot then I say go for it. I know I tend to look for existing NPCs to take out.

[Rapier]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

Not the PCs, but maybe to help show just /how dangerous/ some villains and organizations are in the Champs Universe (or your own), deliberatly making up a hero or three who get on the bad side of VIPER or Destroyer, make some DUMB mistakes, survive long enough to have some history with the PCs -- and then get killed in horrid fashion.

 

Just to help get the idea across that these people are truly as dangerous as shown in their soucebooks. And maybe so the PCs won't do anything too recklessly stupid (and get a reason to personally dislike the villains).

 

Good idea, bad idea, or what?

Well, we've been playing a long time. After a couple years (sometimes only a couple months) we tend to get tired of playing the same character. In cases like this the player and I discuss things and decide on an exit strategy. Sometimes the hero goes to join another super team/moves away, sometimes they retire, sometimes they lose their powers, sometimes they die.

 

I have also killed off players, not deliberately. When we were getting close to the close of the Champs campaign, Iconic Knight threw himself in front of a plasma cannon. His theory was that the plasma cannon would vent its fire on him and not destroy the Dallas/FW Megaplex. I should have had his sacrifice in vain. I mean, his DEF/BODY wouldn't even change the colour on the plasma blast. I had intended for the heroes to just take out the power supply/pull the plug. In this case I couldn't really get around it. IK made the decision to stand in front of the cannon. It would be wrong of me to cheat him out of his noble sacrifice.

 

I've also killed characters off for REALLY stupid things...but that is pretty rare. If you egg on Dr Destroyer and call him a pansy...you got to expect to take a lot of damage. (Sorry, Chad. I know I said I wouldn't mention it...but I couldn't resist!!)

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

I've killed off heroes as a matter of course, but not inserted one so that deliberately I could nuke him later on. I prefer to have this happen more organically than deliberately.

 

But if you need for something like this to happen in order to further your plot then I say go for it. I know I tend to look for existing NPCs to take out.

 

Well, I figured on having the character around long enough for the PCs to take an interest in them, to become a part of their world -- and THEN he gets nailed. I don't know about others, but when a character gets introed only to get killed a minute later? Personally, I think that's a wasted effort.

 

Think like how the animated Batman set everything up with Harvey Dent in their first season, making him Bruce's friend in a couple of storylines before turning him into Two-Face.

 

And with allthese people that VIPER, especially, is Hunting, sometimes it pays to remind PCs why they are such a nasty Hunted to have w'out doing anything permanently scarring to them. (That, or giving them a /warning/, as one may prefer.)

[tenscales]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

Guess I am from the old-school concept of superheroes.

 

Examples of Superhero death:

Superheroes dont die, only their popularity when they retire.

The costumed hero dies and a mundane arises in a business suit.

 

The superhero faces great odds and dies in his attempt, whether it be a failure or not, to only arise again in a new form (whether it be a new hero with amnesia, a new hero with new powers or a brainwashed hero now serving the bad guy) --OR--

he returns as his old self YEARS and YEARS later in a time where he is barely remembered.

 

Villian and minions kill the hero, however like some insecure villians who have nothing to do if they cant challenge a suitable rival, manages to keep the hero under ice until the villian gets bored.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

My thought is that this is exactly the kind of story you should be telling.

 

It is dramatic. Organic is good, I am myself a freeform GM ...most of the time... but i have a few ideas where this character or that organization is going to go. This is really no different.

 

Work it well and you and your troupe will think back fondly on the 'Ikarus Incident' for many many years.

 

Cheers

 

Hawksmoor

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

I had a villain set off a nuke (in Detroit, ironically) because the players decided to laugh off her reputation for never bluffing and try gangpiling her instead of being clever.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

Well, we've been playing a long time. After a couple years (sometimes only a couple months) we tend to get tired of playing the same character. In cases like this the player and I discuss things and decide on an exit strategy. Sometimes the hero goes to join another super team/moves away, sometimes they retire, sometimes they lose their powers, sometimes they die.

 

I have also killed off players, not deliberately. When we were getting close to the close of the Champs campaign, Iconic Knight threw himself in front of a plasma cannon. His theory was that the plasma cannon would vent its fire on him and not destroy the Dallas/FW Megaplex. I should have had his sacrifice in vain. I mean, his DEF/BODY wouldn't even change the colour on the plasma blast. I had intended for the heroes to just take out the power supply/pull the plug. In this case I couldn't really get around it. IK made the decision to stand in front of the cannon. It would be wrong of me to cheat him out of his noble sacrifice.

 

I've also killed characters off for REALLY stupid things...but that is pretty rare. If you egg on Dr Destroyer and call him a pansy...you got to expect to take a lot of damage. (Sorry, Chad. I know I said I wouldn't mention it...but I couldn't resist!!)

No problem, but it wasn't me.

 

[Koshka]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

I'm having enough trouble getting "four-color heroes don't kill people" across to one person in my current game. If I killed off an NPC, his reaction would be "OK, killing that villain is now legit".

 

Now, if you have players with a better grasp on the genre (or you're running a little darker game than I'm trying to), this would probably work.

[Guest rbezold]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

I'm having enough trouble getting "four-color heroes don't kill people" across to one person in my current game. If I killed off an NPC' date=' his reaction would be "OK, killing that villain is now legit".[/quote']

 

I would second that. I would also offer one more bit of advice: if your players suspect that the hero is 'disposable', they will lose interest in the scenario. No one likes to be in a no-win scenario, and if they think that the only reason the pc hero is there is so he can croak, then it's going to look like a no-win situation. Expect your gamer's enthusiasm to take a nose-dive if that happens.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great story idea, but it needs to be handled _very_ carefully.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

To me, this kind of files down to being in-character.

 

In-character, unless the villain is a proven harmless nutbar like Foxbat, they should consider him to be a deadly threat, even if they know, out-of-character, that they have X defenses and that the genre of superheroes means that they only die in interesting, dramatic ways and have a chance of coming back.

 

I had this problem in my SAS d20 game ... I told the players that being dropped to 0HP didn't mean death, and one player promptly took that to mean 'I can use lethal force on NPCs despite it not being in character'. He was metagaming, basically ... acting on the idea that his character knew that, in Silver Age stories, death is a rarity.

 

Another thing I feel compelled to mention ... if you've ever watched Star Trek, you're familiar with the concept of the Expendable Crewman; the poor red-shirted bastard who beams down with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy for the sole purpose of getting killed to show just how big and bad the villain of the week is. Did it ever work?

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

 

Usually, if it is a Silver Age game, the NPC hero in question is hospitalized, after having bones broken, serious internal damage, and generally not-quite-dead but in a world of hurt. Usually this works better than death, since you can keep visiting the hero and learn how long it takes for him to heal.

 

"Well, he's lucky to be alive."

"Well, you can talk to him, but don't make it long."

"Well, he's eating solid food."

"Well, we can put in the pins for his pelvis, but he's going to be in that full body cast for awhile. Luckily, he didn't have any spinal injuries."

 

If you want to be really cruel, the NPC could gain a new Physical Limitation (perhaps only temporarily, but you never know). Can't see, can't walk, lost a limb, in a coma, weak heart, requires medications. Overcoming these new limitations can help better define an NPC.