Prophetic Insight

[Vondy]

I'm building a character who has flashes of prophetic insight. This doesn't manifest itself as sensory information, however. It manifests as a sudden, crystal clear knowledge. An example might be: the character is walking down the street and sees a perfectly healthly young man and knows, just knows with absolute certitude, that the young man will die a violent death today, or they just know the market will crash, or they just know so-and-so they haven't seen for years will show up in the morning. Its not detailed information - but it is always accurate. My issue is: precognition is built as a subset of claristience, which is sensory bases. Would you just assign the "mental" sense group and call it a day - or is there another way to build this power.

 

As it is I'm toying with: claristience (mental), precognition, no conscious control, information is accurate but narrow in scope.

 

Any other ideas running around in herodom assembled?

[Eosin]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

How bout a Trandimensional (through time) Detect (expanded class of things (The Future Stuff))? You could buy an RSR/Activation roll with it and be up and running.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Hmmm. Always accurate - which means you wouldn't be able to do anything about it? Sounds more like SFX, or maybe a real good justification for maniac depression. Seriously, I'd be inclined to build this as a disadvantage, probably a combination of physical and psychological limitations - after all, what it is is a condition that limits your choices or puts you ina situation where you have to make them.

 

If you reason from effect then what do you want it for? To be in the right place at the right time? More of a plot device than a power, I'd have thought. To know what to do when the time comes? Read on...

 

Whenever I have a player who wants this kind of thing, I'm inclined to just build it with overall levels. You can add no conscious control, or activation rolls for flavour (even if you saw what was going to happen, you could have interpretted the situation incorrectly.)

 

You could even build it with Luck. Either way, you get an advantage when you need it as a result of your prophetic insight, which is probably what you are after?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

My first thought would be to build it as Deduction Skill with a very high roll. Deduction is described as being "the ability to take several facts and leap to an inobvious conclusion" - that's not a far stretch from what you want to do.

 

You might be able to justify a small Limitation for the whole Skill to represent the limited circumstances under which it works; but regular Deduction is already a GM-controlled ability to a large extent, so if you do Limit it I don't think it should be by much.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Here's a slightly different take on it...

 

You say the character just "knows" future events when he gets one of these flashes of insight, rather than sensing them in some way. Normally, things a character knows would be simulated with Skills.

 

So what if you took KS: Future Events, bought up to some ridiculously high roll (so you virtually never missed it, and could take hefty penalties for applying such a general category of skill to specific cases), and than applied No Conscious Control.

 

Something like this...

 

Prophetic Insight: KS: Future Events 30- (Active Cost: 21 points), No Conscious Control (-2). Real Cost: 7 points.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Nothing to do with game mechanics, but you'll need to know if you are living in a world where everything is fated - if it is you can potentially know the future (by whatever means you decide to employ) but you can't do anything about it - any effort you make will just become a part of whatever you know is going to happen. The future will be no more mutable than the past. It is knowable, but not changeable.

 

On the other hand, if you live in a world where freewill is all (or everything is predetermined, but there are multiple possible futures - always difficult to justify on a conservation of energy argument, but...) then you can change the future, but not know it, beyond the immediate and obvious.

 

It is a bit like Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in physics: The more precisely the position (of a subatomic particle) is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known, and vice versa.

 

http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/

 

OK, this doesn't help you with your problem, but it makes a darned interesting discussion after the game over a small sherbert. I've always thought the social aspect of gaming is neglected.

 

BTW I thought that Derek's idea was an interesting one, even if it does shade toward the 'fated universe' side of the argument, but I preferred the Lord Laiden approach (my own personal universe is less deterministic).

 

I would ask you this though: what do you want the effects to be? So far you have only described the SFX.

[Vondy]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Hmmm. Always accurate - which means you wouldn't be able to do anything about it? Sounds more like SFX, or maybe a real good justification for maniac depression. Seriously, I'd be inclined to build this as a disadvantage, probably a combination of physical and psychological limitations - after all, what it is is a condition that limits your choices or puts you ina situation where you have to make them.

 

If you reason from effect then what do you want it for? To be in the right place at the right time? More of a plot device than a power, I'd have thought. To know what to do when the time comes? Read on...

 

Whenever I have a player who wants this kind of thing, I'm inclined to just build it with overall levels. You can add no conscious control, or activation rolls for flavour (even if you saw what was going to happen, you could have interpretted the situation incorrectly.)

 

You could even build it with Luck. Either way, you get an advantage when you need it as a result of your prophetic insight, which is probably what you are after?

 

 

Yes, its largely a plot device power, but you're assuming the character, having had the flash of insight, wouldn't be able to do something about it if you were so inclined. One might argue: if no one knew in advance it would happen this would be absolute, but now you know so what will you do? Ah, the moral delima: to tamper with fate or no? Additionally, not every piece of information will be action oriented. Some of it would simply be to give the character the growing rep among his fellows: hmmm... liberty lass is pregnant, I'd better get her some sort of shower gift. Shows up with the gift and liberty lass reacts: but how did you know, I just took the test 10 minutes ago. Some effects would be similar to danger sense, but its realy broader than danger sense and I'm not happy with danger sense as written - most characters who want it have high perception rolls anyways. Still pondering it.

[Vondy]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Here's a slightly different take on it...

 

You say the character just "knows" future events when he gets one of these flashes of insight, rather than sensing them in some way. Normally, things a character knows would be simulated with Skills.

 

So what if you took KS: Future Events, bought up to some ridiculously high roll (so you virtually never missed it, and could take hefty penalties for applying such a general category of skill to specific cases), and than applied No Conscious Control.

 

Something like this...

 

Prophetic Insight: KS: Future Events 30- (Active Cost: 21 points), No Conscious Control (-2). Real Cost: 7 points.

 

This, or Lord Laiden's suggestion, intrigue me. I think I'll play with them as an idea.

[Vondy]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Nothing to do with game mechanics, but you'll need to know if you are living in a world where everything is fated - if it is you can potentially know the future (by whatever means you decide to employ) but you can't do anything about it - any effort you make will just become a part of whatever you know is going to happen. The future will be no more mutable than the past. It is knowable, but not changeable.

 

On the other hand, if you live in a world where freewill is all (or everything is predetermined, but there are multiple possible futures - always difficult to justify on a conservation of energy argument, but...) then you can change the future, but not know it, beyond the immediate and obvious.

 

It is a bit like Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in physics: The more precisely the position (of a subatomic particle) is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known, and vice versa.

 

http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/

 

OK, this doesn't help you with your problem, but it makes a darned interesting discussion after the game over a small sherbert. I've always thought the social aspect of gaming is neglected.

 

BTW I thought that Derek's idea was an interesting one, even if it does shade toward the 'fated universe' side of the argument, but I preferred the Lord Laiden approach (my own personal universe is less deterministic).

 

I would ask you this though: what do you want the effects to be? So far you have only described the SFX.

 

I guess my assumption is the that the idea that the power is prophecy based includes an implicit assumption that future events are not set in stone and that our freewill can have a direct impact on the future - the character is a trained supernormal operative who has several low end powers based on "divine providence" - luck, combat luck, etc.

[JMcL63]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

How about trying this as Analyse built as a sense with temporal orientation? The idea being that the character is analysing the future timeline(s) of the objects into which he has insight. Also, how about making it continuous, to generate a cascade effect to give you the unerring aspect? I don't know if this would work because I'm not consulting the rules, but these are just some suggestions. Hope they help.

[Black Rose]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

I have a character I have been working on for the last month, who originally had some absolute knowledge of the future of the ficton to which they were going, and all the nearby fictons* as well. However, something happened midtransit, and not only was the character sent to the wrong host body (wrong age, wrong sex!), but most of the specific information is now completely unavailable due to "hysterical amnesia)**. I finally decided to use:

 

Flashes Of Knowledge: KS: Various Ranma 1/2 Timelines 30- (21 Active Points; 5 Real Points); Only On First Meeting Or During Dreams (-1 1/2), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1)

 

I like this because, there's almost no chance I won't get an answer, but the NCC makes sure it's going to be scattered and all-but-useless info that I'll have to put together.

 

* Coined by R.A.H., I believe, to represent all the various possible timelines created by writers unconsciously tapping into the multiverse for their stories.

 

** Is there such a thing? I seem to recall such a thing, but I could be wrong. In any case, here it refers to actually knowing a thing, but being unable to consciously access the knowledge. Much like hysterical blindness means your eyes work find, but you "refuse" to see.

[zornwil]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

VDM, I define specifically which senses the precognition takes place with, i.e., is it just a "vision" (no sound, no reading of thoughts) or is it sound and vision only, so it's like a TV, or what? I would in this case follow the orthodox Sensory adds to Clairsentience. I just helped a player with a build we could mutually agree on for multi-dimensional Clairsentience where he can look into past, present, and future in parallel Earths and try to figure out possibilities/ideas. I wrote it as:

 

"Precognitive, Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group and Normal

Hearing), x128 Range (54,400"), Related Group of Dimensions (120 Active

Points), Side Effects (-1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate

Constant or Persistent Power, -1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate Through

Use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV, -1/2), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)"

 

My notes to him, in part (there was a lot more, but this is enough for this instance):

 

"The problem is that putting in "Retrocognition", "Precognition", and "Group

of Related Dimensions" (which would be "all similar to ours") puts it well

beyond your MP Active Points. I might suggest you reduce the range, meaning

that a built-in limitation is when researching you have to fix your point of

reference not too far from where you need to research. Thus in the build

above I limited that range accordingly. I don't think it's that great a

trade-off and allows the power to work pretty well I think, as it means you

have to focus more closely on an area across dimensions, that seems to make

sense. That's why the range is only x128.

 

Naturally, the new lim for "Vague and Unclear" simulates that the answer may

not be direct or certain.

 

What I will normally provide for you is a range of probabilities and/or

certain notable facts.

 

What I'll expect is that you indicate generally what you're looking for."

[jackalope]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Any other ideas running around in herodom assembled?

 

When I build characters with that power, I do it as Sight and Hearing and leave it at that. I wouldn't do it with Mental.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

...hehehe...if you want to do it the long way round, how about a transdimensional temporal teleport into the past. The character actually lives the future, then goes into the past and does it again. It may work out different each time but you are learning, new stuff until....

 

 

Oh no, hang on. That's Groundhog Day, isn't it...

[OddHat]

Re: Prophetic Insight

 

Personally I'd keep it simple. Either that very cool KS:All Future History 60 or less, NCC, -45 or so to find a specific even = 15 or less roll, cost = 17 points, or just a Detect Fate Enhanced Sense for 15 points or so, down to 5 points as it's NCC.