falling into water

[phydaux]

Need some help here.

 

Say a character is CON stunned and then falls into some water (lake, swimming pool, whatever, just so it's over their head).

 

Do they have to make some kind of roll to avoid breathing water amd passing out?

 

What if they are STUN maxed? At what point do they start drowning, and what effect does the drowning have?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: falling into water

 

I'd say a Stunned character would not have to roll or anything to avoid drowning. They're just shaken up... they're not quite that far gone. I don't believe there is an official rule, however.

 

An Unconscious character who falls into the water, OTOH, would start drowning (on their next Phase after falling in the water). The effects of drowning are listed in the rulebook. (I don't have my books at hand, so I can't give you a page reference. Just check the index under "Drowning.")

[Blue]

Re: falling into water

 

If you want them to cough and take in a little water, you can always give them a couple D6 of NND with the appropriate Life Support for the phase they're stunned on top of whatever impact damage. But Generally when the character wasn't KO'd, "You come back up coughing and spitting water" is enough to get the point across.

[RDU Neil]

Re: falling into water

 

Off the cuff ruling if this happened in my game...

 

When stunned character recovers from being stunned, I'd say, "Make an Ego roll" if they make it, they focus and control themselves and don't auto-breathe. If they miss it, they suck in water instinctively, and take a couple dice NND. Likely they could scramble out of the water after that. The danger would be a low Con character who rolled really high on the NND and Con stunned themselves again... then they would be drowning.

 

Basically how I've played that out in past games, and it has happened. Works pretty well.

[Trebuchet]

Re: falling into water

 

Off the cuff ruling if this happened in my game...

 

When stunned character recovers from being stunned, I'd say, "Make an Ego roll" if they make it, they focus and control themselves and don't auto-breathe. If they miss it, they suck in water instinctively, and take a couple dice NND. Likely they could scramble out of the water after that. The danger would be a low Con character who rolled really high on the NND and Con stunned themselves again... then they would be drowning.

 

Basically how I've played that out in past games, and it has happened. Works pretty well.

Good solution to the drowning question, RDU.

[Sean Waters]

Re: falling into water

 

I'd have thought that a stunned character wouldn't be able to take a breath before going under; they wouldn't have the necessary presence of mind. The effect of this would be that the character couldn't hold their breath, so the drowning rules would start immediately, with END then Stun then Body damage, and you wouldn't get the normal CON grace period before this starts. High CON characetrs would still bea ta na dvantage as they would have more END and Stun.

 

If someone actually breathed in water they would be in real trouble real quick. Being unconscious doesn't necessarily mean you breath in water, the body has some interesting defence mechanisms. I'd be inclined to give an unconscious character one CON (not EGO - it isn't willpower, it is inherent survival) roll to come round (and maybe hand out some additional drowning damage if they make it), for dramatic purposes, but I would leave a stunned character: they won't be stunned next phase anyway and they can strike for the surface.

[tracer]

If you want them to cough and take in a little water' date=' you can always give them a couple D6 of NND with the appropriate Life Support for the phase they're stunned on top of whatever impact damage.[/quote']

Speaking of impact damage:

 

Just how much damage should a character take from hitting the water at high speed? People who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, which is about 90 meters above the water, typically break their neck when they hit. (Such a 45" fall would result in a 21"-per-Segment impact velocity, for those of you keeping track at home.)

 

Should a water impact be treated just like a regular impact, except minus (say) 8d6?

[Blue]

Re: falling into water

 

Speaking of impact damage:

 

Just how much damage should a character take from hitting the water at high speed? People who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, which is about 90 meters above the water, typically break their neck when they hit. (Such a 45" fall would result in a 21"-per-Segment impact velocity, for those of you keeping track at home.)

 

Should a water impact be treated just like a regular impact, except minus (say) 8d6?

Not sure. How about this: Damge is halved until you get beyond a 10" fall, then you start having to make Breakfall roll to properly knife through the water. This means an unconscious guy falling 10+" will take the full brunt because he's doing a "cannonball".

[Dust Raven]

Re: falling into water

 

Not sure about the damage from falling into water. I've always rules that water is a "soft surface" for the purpose of modifying damage and Breakfall rolls and left it at that.

 

 

As for drowning when Stunned... That gets tricky. As a rule, I consider a character to be Drowning when they can't or don't breathe. I typically consider a character who is in a situation where they can't breathe to automtically stop breathing by default (unless they specifically act otherwise).

 

This actually came up tonight during a fight with VIPER agents. Two were knocked off a pier and into the water. Basically, the brick picked one up and threw him at the other. The impact knocked both out (-6 STUN) and they fell. Giving that it's possible I rolled to see if either of them managed to surface face up (Figured it was 50/50, and rolled it on 11- to be face up, and I know 11- isn't 50/50, but it's a heroic game). One was face down. On top of being Stunned and Unconscious, he was Drowning. That meant no Recoveries. Since he was KOed, he'd lost all his END. He immediately started taking BODY from Drowning (I figure the SFX of this was that the body desperately tried to breathe and inhaled water).

 

If he was only Stunned but no KOed, he'd have lost a point of END while recovering, but then have been fine. If he had already lost all his END in the fight, he would have lost STUN and remained Stunned as a result (involentarily breathing water or shock of not being able to breathe). Such a character would have to be pulled out, just as if he was unconscious already, but would be making more noise and have more time (and likely not need medical attention other than a good slap on the back to clear the throat).

[RDU Neil]

Re: falling into water

 

I'd have thought that a stunned character wouldn't be able to take a breath before going under; they wouldn't have the necessary presence of mind. The effect of this would be that the character couldn't hold their breath, so the drowning rules would start immediately, with END then Stun then Body damage, and you wouldn't get the normal CON grace period before this starts. High CON characetrs would still bea ta na dvantage as they would have more END and Stun.

 

If someone actually breathed in water they would be in real trouble real quick. Being unconscious doesn't necessarily mean you breath in water, the body has some interesting defence mechanisms. I'd be inclined to give an unconscious character one CON (not EGO - it isn't willpower, it is inherent survival) roll to come round (and maybe hand out some additional drowning damage if they make it), for dramatic purposes, but I would leave a stunned character: they won't be stunned next phase anyway and they can strike for the surface.

 

Con Stunned is not unconscious... the Ego roll is because you are making a conscious effort to fight the auto-breath reflex as you shake off the stunned.

 

Unconscious (0 stun or below) then yeah, this is purely a physical reaction, and I general start having the character take NND damage with their first REC... so their first allowed REC would be an attempt to gain stun, but they would take NND stun from sucking in water (assuming not LS), stopping the REC (there IS still the rule that if you take stun while trying to recover, you don't get the recovery, right?)... and then it is a downward spiral if they aren't pulled out.