Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

[Susano]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

What pic in what book are you referring to' date=' please ?[/quote']

 

*thinks*

 

See the page for Missile Reflection.

[Vondy]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

1) I want an Israeli team that doesn't have someone named "Sabra" on it. Its like having a hero named "Natural Born American!" or "Red Blooded American!" Dumb. Metzada (fortress), which has deep meanings of national consciousness, and Macabbe (the Macabbes from the Chanuka stories); would probably occur due to their commoness of these themes in all Israeli sectors. Israelis tend to be less touchy about general religious themes in secular situations, and more parochial in their general outlook, than Americans are.

 

2) I want an Israeli team that's as diverse as Israelis really are. Some laborniks (left and progressive), some likudniks (center-right and nationalist status quo), some secular, some traditional (the israeli middle ground and majority), some religious (though the hassidim wouldn't participate in a national team unless it was a lubavitcher). The Druze serve in the IDF (the current commander of the Military Border Police is Druze), and beodouins have done so as well (bedouin trackers are highly regarded by the IDF). As a result, one or the other, or both, of these people's could be represented on a national team.

 

And David Ben Israel need not apply. He would be regarded with some suspicion by the GSS and most hero's who stayed at home to fight the good fight, or to change things from within the system (especially considering Israel's traditional relationship with the UN, which is approached with a great deal of caution by Israel); and his write-up included a lame political stereotype common among westerners looking from the outside in, but highly atypical among Israelis, including left-leaning Israelis. Such a man might well exist, but he'd inspire a great deal of reserve among many of his countrymen, especially those who were patriotic enough (even if they want things to change) to stay here.

 

3) Realistically, Israel should probably have no unsanctioned crime fighters. All of them should be a part of a special sayaret (special forces group) or work for the General Security Service, where they can be shunted to the different intelligence agencies like the Mossad, Shin Bet (similar to the FBI, but not so much law enforcement), and MI units as needed. National service is a big deal and highly regardedin Israel - as a result, the national police are likely to recruit such individuals if at all possible. Also, they aren't likely to be very four color. Their code would be much more soldier or police officer oriented. The cultural underpinnings that lead to a four color mindset aren't well supported here.

 

4) Realistically, Israel should have a few religious supers: about 25% of the population is orthodox and an additional 60% of the population identifies themselves as being traditional (they make kiddush and then flip on the television on shabbat, or don't do business on shabbat, but drive to the beach, etc). And over half of the junior officer corps is religious. As a result, there's probably one super from the national religious camp on their team.

 

5) A cabal of secretive low-key supermages (all nebulously orthodox practical kabbalists) would also be apropos, and could function underground among the religious community for the most part. The ultra-orthodox community and even the national religious community can close ranks very tightly when they want to. It comes from having Shin Bet plants in your communities (no joke: the shin bet's been sued and lost three times for violating the security codes and doing some very underhanded things with its own citizens in the past five years) - even the national religious who are pro-involvement and pro-government tend to be circumspect with outsiders, or new comers. So its completely possible they could operate without much government interference. If they were national religious they would probably have some tenuous tie to the government in the event they were needed, but would largely keep to themselves and eschew general involvement. If they're chassidim - all bets are off - they're keeping to themselves unless there's a full blown war underway.

 

These aren't so much things I want to see as it is an expression that I want to see what you write actually reflect Israel in a realistic way. Also, as old as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, the specific circumstances change so vasty and so rapidly that touching on it lightly without going into detail or having characters too wrapped up in it would probably be a good idea (especially since its a hot button issue for a lot of people who have nothing to do with it for some reason). And there's a lot more to Israel than the one thing people see in the news, so there's a lot for supers of an Israeli or Palestinian stripe to do without ever running into eachother, or fighting. Maybe there's even an Israeli and Palestinian super who work together on occassion (and have learned to respect one another). A druze super would also be cool; amnd russian organized crime is pretty much organized crime in Israel (its the first real wave of it the country has ever had) so a Russian mafia reference with an associated super would work. And some of the news about the russian mobs is truly sensational. They've gone so far as to assassinate one judge and a few police investigators. I'm happy to help with Hebrew and the organization of the IDF/GSS and general cultural references if you want.

 

Personally, I'd stand up and applaud if there was a suit and fedora wearing, or robed and turbaned and sunglasses wearing (iraqi-syrian jews) hero with beard who went out and kicked major bootay on Israeli evil doers (all the while returning lost objects to their owners, feeding and clothing the poor, giving his fellow man a good word)! Asking too much, but it would make me happy.

 

BAM! "Now that Esav is defeated I can turn to the bystanders! You there, good man: have you donned your ritual phylacteries today?" I kid. I kid.

[Kirby]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I'd like to see Pantera as part of a new pair-team. Maybe her and some near invulnerable baby brick boyfriend who can control her because she can't hurt him. An Italian man with density increase called Pesante.

Maybe give him some Lack of Weakness and Regeneration.

 

Sorry to add on again, but I really like this.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

1) I want an Israeli team that doesn't have someone named "Sabra" on it...

 

3) Realistically, Israel should probably have no unsanctioned crime fighters. All of them should be a part of a special sayaret (special forces group)...

 

 

Well, it's "Worldwide" in about 160 pages, so there probably won't be as much on any one country or even region as some would like- it's a character book with some local color, not an in-depth study of politics in the CU. However, I can tell you that the sole Israeli superheroine is called "Ha'Pele," not "Sabra," and from the rest of what you wrote it sounds like she might appeal to you (I saved out your quote because I wanted to note that I had a superhuman sayaret before this post- I wrote the Middle East chapter about six weeks ago, and I didn't want there to be questions of attribution.) There's also one Israeli villain ("Glamor"), one Palestinian living in Israel who's a bit gray in his motivations ("Abd al-Mughni"), and of course a wide range of assorted Arab supers surrounding them. dw

[Vondy]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Well' date=' it's "Worldwide" in about 160 pages, so there probably won't be as much on any one country or even region as some would like- it's a character book with some local color, not an in-depth study of politics in the CU. [/quote']

 

Makes sense. I just wanted to throw out as much information as possible for you to consider or use (or not) because I didn't know what the scope of the book was.

 

However' date=' I can tell you that the sole Israeli superheroine is called "Ha'Pele," not "Sabra," and from the rest of what you wrote it sounds like she might appeal to you (I saved out your quote because I wanted to note that I had a superhuman sayaret before this post- I wrote the Middle East chapter about six weeks ago, and I didn't want there to be questions of attribution.) [/quote']

 

I'll look forward to seeing her.

 

Do you mean you had a superhuman named "sayaret" or a sayaret team of superhumans? Just curious.

 

I don't think you need to worry about me complaining you stole my ideas or throwing out the P word, though I understand why you might be concerned based on the recent, spurious mechanon-metalla debacle. At the same time, now I can't claim that, like Steve, you are my mental puppet, doing my bidding and tailoring your books to my every whim! Lame.

 

There's also one Israeli villain ("Glamor")' date=' one Palestinian living in Israel who's a bit gray in his motivations ("Abd al-Mughni"), and of course a wide range of assorted Arab supers surrounding them. dw[/quote']

 

Cool. Can I write-up some of the other ones for Digital Hero?

[Vondy]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

What pic in what book are you referring to' date=' please ?[/quote']

 

5ER, P182, Missile Reflection Illo.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

 

Do you mean you had a superhuman named "sayaret" or a sayaret team of superhumans? Just curious.

 

 

A sayaret specifically devoted to "superhuman affairs"- Ha'Pele has an elite unit supporting her activities.

 

 

Cool. Can I write-up some of the other ones for Digital Hero?

 

Sure, I think that'd rock. dw

[Vondy]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

A sayaret specifically devoted to "superhuman affairs"- Ha'Pele has an elite unit supporting her activities.

 

Do you have a specific name for it? If not, would you like a volunteer to help come up with one in Hebrew. Usually they're Sayaret /name of specific unit/. For instance: Sayaret Miktal or Sayaret Yamag are actual units.

 

Sure' date=' I think that'd rock. dw[/quote']

 

Should I just make up my own, or do you have names and a corresponding sentence I should work from?

[Libra]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Just a quick question, but I hread about a book being created that was specifically devoted to we inhabitants of the Sceptered Isle(or indeed Isles if you count Ireland. It is theoretically one of the British isles, if not one of the United Kingdoms.) What will this book be like, and just what exact area will it cover?

 

I ask, you see , because Britain usually gets the tossers and useless ******* of the Superhwero world and I would like to know how they are being potrayed, and if this book really exists, even if it is only in potentia at the moment.

[MitchellS]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Just a quick question, but I hread about a book being created that was specifically devoted to we inhabitants of the Sceptered Isle(or indeed Isles if you count Ireland. It is theoretically one of the British isles, if not one of the United Kingdoms.) What will this book be like, and just what exact area will it cover?

 

I ask, you see , because Britain usually gets the tossers and useless ******* of the Superhwero world and I would like to know how they are being potrayed, and if this book really exists, even if it is only in potentia at the moment.

My guess is that it would be very similar to the 4E British sourcebook called Kingdom of Champions. The 5E world even has some of the same groups which are presented in the 4E sourcebook.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Some coverage, even if it's just a mention, of the countries where you usually don't see heroes, like Eastern Europe (aside from Russia).

 

The Middle East seems to be begging for coverage, especially the Islamic lands. Howzabout an honorable Muslim super who happens to live in a not-so-honorable country for that whole conflict between faith/honor and duty?

 

India must have supers coming out the wazoo. Something about Ushas and/or Rashindar would be nice. They _are_ supposed to be some of the most powerful heroes on the planet; let's see what that means. Some Indian villains would be nice too -- and seeing as how Doctor Destroyer has his major base in the Himalayan kingdoms, then how do India and Pakistan and China all deal with having him on their border? Even if no one knows just who's running Javangari (though someone should suspect), having a technological and economic powerhouse with some nasty politics on the border isn't good for peace of mind.

 

Something on Mexican supers would be nice too. Super-luchadors!

 

Basically, something beyond the 'usual suspects' of North America, Western Europe, and Japan would be nice.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

And David Ben Israel need not apply. He would be regarded with some suspicion by the GSS and most hero's who stayed at home to fight the good fight' date=' or to change things from within the system (especially considering Israel's traditional relationship with the UN, which is approached with a great deal of caution by Israel); and his write-up included a lame political stereotype common among westerners looking from the outside in, but highly atypical among Israelis, including left-leaning Israelis. Such a man might well exist, but he'd inspire a great deal of reserve among many of his countrymen, especially those who were patriotic enough (even if they want things to change) to stay here.[/quote']

 

If it's not going OT, what 'lame political stereotype'?

 

BTW, talking Middle Eastern supers, how do you suppose a returned god (like Marduk or Ishtar) would be received in Israel or the rest of the ME?

[Vondy]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

If it's not going OT' date=' what 'lame political stereotype'?[/quote']

 

I'll PM You.

 

BTW' date=' talking Middle Eastern supers, how do you suppose a returned god (like Marduk or Ishtar) would be received in Israel or the rest of the ME?[/quote']

 

At first blush: extemely badly?

At second blush: extremely extremely badly.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Wow' date=' that's interesting - I had never heard of Benandanti being credited the ability to assume animal shape. Thanks for the info! And yes, a Benandante would make for a wonderful concept.[/quote']

 

Well, there were so many different versions of 'Benandanti' in Europe, you could probably find almost anything if you look hard enough. I.e, there were the eskari, the calusari (who were dragon-shifters from Romania if I remember right), the 'night goers' of eastern Germany, the Baltic werewolves who fought witches and demons to defend the harvest, the Greek callicantzoroi...

 

Myself, I've always wanted to use the Benandanti as an organization that worked against evil mystics and monsters, with werewolf 'field agents' and more scholarly sorts running support (yes, very BtVS inspired).

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I know it is a sensitive subject, but I would like to see some sort of treatment of 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Champions Universe feels kind of...off...without them. After the Battle of Detroit did an attack that 'only' claimed a few thousand lives have less of an impact? Did the Sentinels or other heroes save the day (in my last 4th ed. campaign, the Champions kept one of the towers from collapsing by slowing down the aircraft and shoring up the structure...the other fell). Did covert military supers fight a clandestine war in the Middle East? While we're on the topic, did last year's devastating tsunami occur in the CU? If so, how was it different? I know these questions come up. I'm not looking to 'game' these tragic scenarios, but a great many current issues are related to them and I'm not sure ignoring them is more respectful than including them.

[MitchellS]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I know it is a sensitive subject' date=' but I would like to see some sort of treatment of 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Champions Universe feels kind of...off...without them. After the Battle of Detroit did an attack that 'only' claimed a few thousand lives have less of an impact? Did the Sentinels or other heroes save the day (in my last 4th ed. campaign, the Champions kept one of the towers from collapsing by slowing down the aircraft and shoring up the structure...the other fell). Did covert military supers fight a clandestine war in the Middle East? While we're on the topic, did last year's devastating tsunami occur in the CU? If so, how was it different? I know these questions come up. I'm not looking to 'game' these tragic scenarios, but a great many current issues are related to them and I'm not sure ignoring them is more respectful than including them.[/quote']

I would guess that many of these things are more likely to be address in next year's Champions Universe Update. Also keep in mind that the CU was written after 9/11 and there is no mention of terrorist attacks on the WTC/Pentagon or a war in Afghanistan or Iraq.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I would guess that many of these things are more likely to be address in next year's Champions Universe Update. Also keep in mind that the CU was written after 9/11 and there is no mention of terrorist attacks on the WTC/Pentagon or a war in Afghanistan or Iraq.

 

Current events will be touched on in CWW (there's a whole chapter on the Middle East, frex), but this is a character book, not a gazetteer, so there won't be a lot of detail. 9/11, the Second Gulf War and the tsunami all did happen in the baseline CU. Much more detail will be provided in the CU Update.

 

CU was written after 9/11, yes, but not very long after. We didn't feel we had enough perspective on the issue to deal with it then, as it was definitely "current events" in the spring of '02 when CU was written. dw

[MitchellS]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Current events will be touched on in CWW (there's a whole chapter on the Middle East, frex), but this is a character book, not a gazetteer, so there won't be a lot of detail. 9/11, the Second Gulf War and the tsunami all did happen in the baseline CU. Much more detail will be provided in the CU Update.

 

CU was written after 9/11, yes, but not very long after. We didn't feel we had enough perspective on the issue to deal with it then, as it was definitely "current events" in the spring of '02 when CU was written. dw

Well that's cool then. I just hadn't seen any mention of it in any of the CU material. Hopefully the JS and Sentinels were able to save the day in New York [maybe the Golden Avenger died in the Pentagon attack? ]. I tend to not get too involved with "real" wars in my games. I figure VIPER, DEMON, and the various supervillains cause more destruction and terror then "real" organizations.

[Steve Long]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I can't speak for Darren, but I've refrained from mentioning 9/11 because doing so seemed to me as if it would somehow trivialize or exploit the event. It seems to me like something that stands pretty well on its own. But as Darren says, it definitely happened in the CU, pretty much as it occurred in real life -- I'd just rather not emphasize it any.

[zornwil]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

FWIW, I definitely agree with that approach. Enough time has passed to broach it, but not enough for more than just that.

[Kirby]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I know it is a sensitive subject' date=' but I would like to see some sort of treatment of 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.[/quote']

I personally would like to see it mentioned; however, I would not want it to be trivialized as saying terrorist supers were involved in it or that a super was on the plane that crashed into the ground in PA. That would really, in my opinion, trivialize (for the attacks) or depreciate the effort of those involved in it (for those who resisted and the rescuers).

 

I don't mind the Tungungen, Siberia blast being treated as a supers event, as it was very long ago and no one died in it, but treating the September 11, attacks as a comic plot line would really turn me off. And even from a comics point of view (especially Astro City), everyday citizens are capable of great things -some terrible, yes, but great things.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

I can't speak for Darren' date=' but I've refrained from mentioning 9/11 because doing so seemed to me as if it would somehow trivialize or exploit the event. It seems to me like something that stands pretty well on its own. But as Darren says, it definitely happened in the CU, pretty much as it occurred in real life -- I'd just rather not emphasize it any.[/quote']

 

Thanks, just knowing it went down pretty much like it happened in real life is all the background I really need, as I have no plans to take my campaign to Iraq or Thailand.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Getting away from the real-world -- will the book cover Destroyer's Himalayan kingdom of Javangari to any extent? Even a paragraph covering just how he became ruler, why they accepted him, and how the rest of the world is reacting to this medieval kingdom turning into a technological powerhouse virtually overnight would be welcome.

 

Myself, I'm wondering if Doctor D convinced the locals he was the most current incarnation of their God-King (I seem to remember that being a common form of leadership in the Himalayas, not just in Tibet), and then proved it by using his powers and tech to fight off the Chinese when they tried 'reunifying' with Javangari.

 

I mean, this is the good Doctor's most important base, and it's an entire country. Surely it deserves even some minimal coverage?

[MitchellS]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

Getting away from the real-world -- will the book cover Destroyer's Himalayan kingdom of Javangari to any extent? Even a paragraph covering just how he became ruler, why they accepted him, and how the rest of the world is reacting to this medieval kingdom turning into a technological powerhouse virtually overnight would be welcome.

 

Myself, I'm wondering if Doctor D convinced the locals he was the most current incarnation of their God-King (I seem to remember that being a common form of leadership in the Himalayas, not just in Tibet), and then proved it by using his powers and tech to fight off the Chinese when they tried 'reunifying' with Javangari.

 

I mean, this is the good Doctor's most important base, and it's an entire country. Surely it deserves even some minimal coverage?

I believe the people of Javangari consider Dr. D to be an incarnation of Shiva and worship him accordingly. I'm not sure Javangari is Dr. D's most important base [i assume that would be his submarine base - He also has one in Russian and in orbit] but It would be nice to see the area mentioned in the book.

[Steve Long]

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want?

 

will the book cover Destroyer's Himalayan kingdom of Javangari

 

No. If and when we give expanded coverage to Dr. D's resources, it would probably be either in a book devoted specifically to him, or to detailing the master villains of the CU.