Questions about VPP's and MP's

[Powerhouse]

Thanks everyone for looking into this thread. Just a quick question or three:

 

1. In the Mystic Worlds Book (forget the real name right now), it's noted that the Skarn character, unlike others with VPP's, can use his VPP to agument his multipower spells? Was this a mis-statement or true? That gives him about a 250 active point attack potentially! Since he already has high stats and a defensive MP he just needs to point to crack a small planet. By the rules, can someone add the points into a VPP into another power with the exception of an aid or succor power? Even then, that could be asking for trouble.

 

2. Witchcraft's example powers for her VPP notes a boost to endurance and REC. Again, is this correct? I've heard someone state it was a misprint and that using a pool to get stats is illegal.

 

3. On that note, ala Ultraboy, can someone use a MP slot to enhance stats (as Jo Nah does with his ultra strength?)

 

Thank you.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

1. I can't remember what the exact construct was, but I don't recall it being just a straightforward "Add points to any multipower effect."

 

2. Taking characteristics inside a VPP is a stop sign, like any other non-standard power, but its not illegal AFAIK.

 

3. Don't see why not.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

1. I don't have the book, so I don't know what you mean by "augement". Typically, you can't have a Power in one Framework that directly adds to a Power in another Framework (or even to a different slot in the same Framework). But you can use Adjustment Powers to increase the Active Points in any applicible Power/Characteristic regardless of where it's purchased.

 

2 & 3. Perfectly legal to put Characteristic in a Framework. The only rule is that Primary Characteristics cannot add to Figured Characteristics (but do get the Limitation if applicable). I can't remember the comic, but I recall a character than had some weird power that could make him super strong, invulnerable, or able to project a powerful blast of energy, but only one of these can be on at a time. Sounds like a perfect example of a MP with three fixed slots, one of which is STR.

 

I've written up some weird energy manipulators with MPs or VPPs that do nothing but add to Characteristics (or have Characteristic-like Powers, like Regen). Might have STR, SPD, DEX, REC, Defenses, Running/Leaping/Swimming all in it. Legal.

 

Of course, the key is for the GM to take a close look and see if it's balanced. Legal doesn't mean balanced.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

Officially:

 

1. The way to add from one power construct onto another is to have the first construct buy an adjustment power, ie Aid or Succor. It is not legal to add directly, ie:

 

60 Cheesy Powers MP:

6u Gouda Bolt 12d6 Energy Blast

6u Sharp Cheddar 4d6 Ranged Killing Attack

 

45 Fondue VPP, 30 points

Legal: 6d6 Aid to Gouda Bolt

Not Legal: +6d6 Gouda Bolt (18d6 Total)

 

2. Putting stats in a VPP, or anything besides STR in a Multipower or EC, requires GM permission. Typically, it's OK, but it can be abused very badly with effort.

 

3. See 2.

 

For my opinion on stats in power constructs, so long as they could otherwise go in (ie, DEX in an EC would need Costs END), I'm generally OK with it save for overuse of those powers or dependance on them.

 

For example, I probably wouldn't allow an EC of 35-point powers, all with Costs 1/2 END (-1/4), and almost all of which are stats. I would let a VPP shapeshifter boost their stats, though.

[Powerhouse]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

"I don't have the book, so I don't know what you mean by "augement". "

 

It means I can't spell.

 

 

The quote is:

 

"Unlike some mega-sorcerers, Skarn can apply his Cosmic Thaumaturgy to augment his other powers or to increase his physical prowess."

 

Cosmic Thaumaturgy is the name of his VPP.

 

It does go one to say that Skarn will often create a 100 AP attack and a 20 point defense/movement/sense. He already has an 150 AP attack MP and a defensive MP as well.

 

I guess it means that he might tailor his attacks with something from his VPP if his normal attacks aren't working while the rest goes to enhance characteristics of his force fields. Just seems really over the top... though he IS a mega-sorceror type.

[OddHat]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

This is all GM's call land. That paragraph means that Skarn should be allowed to pull one of the tricks with his VPP that most Sorcerer types probably should not: Boosting his Str and MP slots.

 

It's legal, but something a GM should be very cautious about. In the case of most of my magic powered characters, I allow Aid and Succor as a VPP or MP slot so long as it fits the character concept, but I'm very cautious about allowing direct stat purchases; it can be very unbalancing, especially with direct additions to PRE.

 

If a player with a VPP wanted to research and perform a magic ritual that let her add her VPP directly to a MP slot, for one casting of a spell, after a 0DCV Concentration Ritual lasting 10 minutes or more, I'd probably say "No Problem". I'd allow her to learn an AID spell for her VPP with fewer restrictions, if it seemed balanced. If my NPC World Conquerer needed to do it to further the plot, I'd let him. If a player wanted to buy a Cosmic 30 point VPP to boost all of his 60 point powers to 90 points all the time, I'd say "No".

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

I believe an Aid to a MP slot requires both the pool and the slot be aided, to allow the additional AP to be used with tyhe slot. "Augment his MP", however, could be as simple as making an attack in the VPP, then combining it with a MP attack in a multiple power attack.

 

As for characteristics, you can allow them as a "special power", or the character can use Aid, including Aid with a low fade rate, to augment his characteristics. Aid, Self Only, Fade 5/hour. 120 point VPP = 6d6 Aid = +36 STR, +12 DEX, +18 Con, +18 BOD, +36 INC, +18 EGO, +36 PRE, +72 COM, +18 PD, +18 ED, +3.6 SPD, +18 REC, +36 STUN and +72 END. I consider that more abusive than allowing characteristics to be purchased in a VPP.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

I rechecked the entry. What it seemed to be implying was not that he could violate the "direct amping of frameworks" rule, but rather, that many sorcerers cannot augment their physical characteristics or other powers.

 

Besides, its not like he can't haul out an ungodly Aid with the VPP to amp his multipower. . .

[Dust Raven]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

I rechecked the entry. What it seemed to be implying was not that he could violate the "direct amping of frameworks" rule, but rather, that many sorcerers cannot augment their physical characteristics or other powers.

 

Besides, its not like he can't haul out an ungodly Aid with the VPP to amp his multipower. . .

This sounds right. I don't think they'd publish a character that is allowed to break the rules, while other characters can't. Sounds more like a SFX/concept issue. Like "while most energy projectors can fly.. Bob here teleports."

[Whitewings]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

I can't remember the comic' date=' but I recall a character than had some weird power that could make him super strong, invulnerable, or able to project a powerful blast of energy, but only one of these can be on at a time. Sounds like a perfect example of a MP with three fixed slots, one of which is STR.[/quote']Ultra Boy, of the Legion of Superheros. It's generallly believed that fixed slots in MPs are named "ultras" in his honour.

[Powerhouse]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

"I rechecked the entry. What it seemed to be implying was not that he could violate the "direct amping of frameworks" rule, but rather, that many sorcerers cannot augment their physical characteristics or other powers.

 

Besides, its not like he can't haul out an ungodly Aid with the VPP to amp his multipower. . ."

 

That makes more sense. Perhaps it would be better to read that "unlike most Sorcerors, Skarn will often choose to enhance his normal spells or characteristics with his VPP."

 

In that sense, it's not that other wizards can't but instead that they don't. Just as Dr. Strange doesn't amp up his strength to go toe to toe with the Hulk though with his Cosmic VPP he could. I do remember in Mystic Masters that some of the wizards had VPP's with the limit of no characteristics, aids, or transfers which would follow the above take though I don't recall many wizards in 5th edition that have such a limit.

[AlHazred]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

I don't think they'd publish a character that is allowed to break the rules' date=' while other characters can't.[/quote']

IIRC, Dr. Silverback (in the Champions Universe book) has a Tangleweb Rifle (built obviously as an Entangle) and an Assorted Devices VPP. One of his sample VPP slots is a Tangleweb Rifle Expansion Pack, which just adds 40 Active Points directly on his Tangleweb Rifle, bringing it up to an even 100.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

Also, Temblor of the Crowns of Krim in Conquerors, Killers and Crooks has a Naked Advantage for his Strength as a slot in a Multipower, which the rules specifically forbid. And that was written by Steve Long.

 

Steve does add in the notes for Temblor that this is normally not allowed, and the GM should change it if he doesn't like it (which I did).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Questions about VPP's and MP's

 

Ultra Boy' date=' of the Legion of Superheros. It's generallly believed that fixed slots in MPs are named "ultras" in his honour.[/quote']

Figures... I based a character off of him in for my campaign and named him Ultraman. Maybe I subconsciously remembered.