NuSoardGraphite Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Oh, I didn't see the part about a "raw attack". a X2 PEN RKA. The 1st level of PEN would cancel the Hardening, the second level of PEN would pop the FW like a bubble, as someone mentioned above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened The AP on the Teleport cancels out the FW's Hardened advantage' date=' allowing the teleporters to get through the FW...[/quote'] He did not say that the Force Wall was Hardened vs. Teleport, just that it was Hardened (these are two different Advantages). My suggestion is to have the deep-sea race just walk through it like it's not there. It doesn't affect Desolid, does it? I am imagining a bunch of fish-people in ornate armor with baroque melee weapons (no ranged weapons), marching up out of the ocean, praying to the Fish god, and then marching right through the Force Wall. Rather than going high-tech, high-damage, have the invading fish people use Bronze-age weapons augmented with magic granted by fish-sorcery. That should give your players pause. I also think it's a neat image. I think RDU Neil made a very good point, though, so I'll repeat it: don't let the first time the Force Wall comes into play be a downer. Have pirates (modern pirates, the kind with gunboats, machineguns, and rocket launchers) attack or something, wanting to get some easy pickin's off the defenseless outcasts. Maybe the new island-nation used to be one of the pirates' hidden redoubts, and they want the damnable muties to leave? Or have a random "accident" happen, like a "meteor" just happens to fall out of the sky and hit the force dome. You don't even have to have a reason for it, yet -- let the players stew for a while, wondering if it was really just an accident, or whether someone was behind it. In any case, have the Force Wall work the first couple of times. It'll make it that much more impressive when the fish people walk through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Or have a random "accident" happen, like a "meteor" just happens to fall out of the sky and hit the force dome. You don't even have to have a reason for it, yet -- let the players stew for a while, wondering if it was really just an accident, or whether someone was behind it. Oooh... I like this, but in a different way. Maybe you can have the fish people attack and be rebuffed. They use magic, but it just can't quite do the trick (have the Force Wall flicker or something...) ... then have the meteor strike. Have it called down from above by fish magic or whatever... a meteor strike big enough that it dwarfs a nuclear explosion... have feedback fritz the Quantum generator... devastate part of the island, and the heroes have to respond to the sudden armry surging from the depths and hold them off long enough to get the Force Wall working again! That's dramatic! Meteors are cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened have the fish people attack and fail with conventional-ish weapons. Then have them submerge the island. Now the oxygen is slowly being used up and the heroes have to go and fight the fish people and reverse the submergence process without lowering the force wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened have the fish people attack and fail with conventional-ish weapons. Then have them submerge the island. Now the oxygen is slowly being used up and the heroes have to go and fight the fish people and reverse the submergence process without lowering the force wall... If it isn't totally cheesey to figure out how an island is submerged... I really like this one. Slick!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened LOL, You are starting to give me some stuff for quite a while I keep the asteroid one for something else though, it will be very handy in the future. As for the sinking one... i donno, maybe the underwater race could succeed at building a Tsunami, we saw what it could do last week. Maybe it wouldn't pass through the defences but it would show how much motivated they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened It might be very interesting to establish this as a bit of an ongoing subplot. Have the fish-men make an attack, rebuffed by the force wall. Watch the reaction of the players. They may want to go after the fishmen. Or they may just laugh at how safe they are behind their Wall. Have a couple more attacks by the fishmen over a few game sessions, in this case, also failures. The one that succeeds will surprise them greatly. Plus, the fishmen now have justification in having beefed up their forces, and being far less willing to surrender now that they finally have the Land Dwellers in their sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 As I recall' date=' it doesn't matter on the first level.[/quote'] I peg your bardon! If your defenses have one (1) level of Hardened, and are hit by an attack that has one (1) level of Armor Piercing plus one (1) level of Penetrating, you most certainly do have to worry about which of those two effects the Hardened counteracts. It'll stop one, but not both, and you have to define which one it'll stop when you buy the Hardened Advantage. (c.f. 5ER, p. 115) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted January 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened I started a new thread in the Champion section with my campaign history if some are interested : Chaos fiend's campaing setting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened If it isn't totally cheesey to figure out how an island is submerged... I really like this one. Slick!! Glad you like it. And, as fish people, maybe they can shape water like we shape land. It might be troublesome to lower the land...but maybe they can raise the local level of the water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Fusion Tunneler: 1" Tunneling through 50 DEF, OAF, bulky, crew-served, x charges lasting 5 minutes each The weapon is placed against the barrier, charges up and hits the barrier with a focused stream of million degree fusion plasma, instantly vaporizing(or otherwise dissipating) the barrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Couple of thoughts: Whilst allowing the FW to work most of the time.... Telekinesis ignores forcewalls, I believe, as do any indirect attacks. You could have your troopers stand outside the FW protected by it picking off the poor suckers inside with indirect 'microwave beams', or somesuch. Have the troopers stick a very slightly larger 55/55 double hardenned FW around the heroes' force wall, and let them stew there... Assuming that the technology is based on an alien physiology, you could have the aliens invade, all of them with FW powers and personal immunity... Not sure tunnelling works against FWs... If you are going to break it you can do: you're the GM. I'd be inclined to have it circumvented rather than knocked down though...afterall, the Authority 'Storm Wall' was impenetrable by Majestic class superhumans, nukes, whatever. You shouldn't have that taken down with a blow torch, IMO, no matter how cunningly designed. If something can knock it down, I'd want to see it done with raw power, so that whatever did get through was truly terrifying. I mean a bunch of troops with blow torches can take down the wall, but if you've got the sort of tech that can put the wall up in the first place, the troops are then going to get mown down...The Authority circumvented the Storm Wall at Gamorra with their dimensional teleport thing, you could do that...unless you have a 50 mile long interdimensional spaceship you can drop on it.... Get a spy in, and blow up the console that operates the FW. 2d6 RKA explosion with a trigger OAF should do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Telekinesis ignores forcewalls' date=' I believe, as do any indirect attacks. You could have your troopers stand outside the FW [i']protected by it[/i] picking off the poor suckers inside with indirect 'microwave beams', or somesuch. Have the troopers stick a very slightly larger 55/55 double hardenned FW around the heroes' force wall, and let them stew there... Assuming that the technology is based on an alien physiology, you could have the aliens invade, all of them with FW powers and personal immunity... I like all of these. Even if the FW is based on alien technology, OUr Heroes are using it woth earth-made components (I assume) so the aliens likely have better versions (better defense; smaller components for same defense, what have you). Imagine an alien invasion force with 30/30 Hardened personal force walls and Indirect weapons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened If you are going to break it you can do: you're the GM. I'd be inclined to have it circumvented rather than knocked down though...afterall, the Authority 'Storm Wall' was impenetrable by Majestic class superhumans, nukes, whatever. You shouldn't have that taken down with a blow torch, IMO, no matter how cunningly designed. If something can knock it down, I'd want to see it done with raw power, so that whatever did get through was truly terrifying. Totally agree with this. DRAMA bay-bee! DRAMA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamura Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Let's not forget Mole-men digging up from below;) G Have You Hugged a Mole Man Today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened have the fish people attack and fail with conventional-ish weapons. Then have them submerge the island. Now the oxygen is slowly being used up and the heroes have to go and fight the fish people and reverse the submergence process without lowering the force wall... Oh beautiful. (Would rep if I hadn't done so too much lately. I owe one to RDU Neil, too, for his above stuff.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened What you need is a sapper. You know, the guy whose job it is to breach barriers/walls etc. Find Weakness Only vs Barriers or Naked Advantage AP (or Penetrating) Give the guy a satchel charge or something. 6d6 RKA 1 Charge, No Range, OAF Satchel Charge, Trigger, Extra Time - 1 Turn. He runs up, drops the charge (or places it) sets the timer and runs like a schoolgirl. Considering what the FW is, it would even be really cool that instead of it being 1 huge forcewall, have it be a bunch of little forcewalls. Still 50/50 but only 10 hexes long or something. This would allow them to breach an area without the whole thing dropping. As time goes on, I'm getting more and more into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened Don't know if this has been suggested, but howsabout this: Get a hacker to break into the computer system and make their network think that the base is on fire or whatever applicable emergency. If the FW is tech in nature, the computer might turn it off to allow people to escape to safety and allow emergency services access to the compound to put out the fire/waste-spill/whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened First off, I agree with whoever said let the FW work before you let it fail. Nothing annoys players more than the cool thing they have which is utterly useless. Second, if the FW is manipulated by operators at dumb terminals, have the fish men blackmail an operator to drop the wall. It helps if you can foreshadow this: let the players know that someopne on the island is communicating with the fish men, and play a game or two of ferret out the spy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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