Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

[Arac-4105]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

Call me arrogant, but I think the main thing is that they lived in those conditions. I agree that their lives were short and any diseases that came their way were very serious, but the ones that lived were in better physical shape than the 'average' person today just by virtue of that hard life.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything here. I'm just sticking to my opinion.

[zornwil]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

Probably different kinds of toughness. I'd suspect the average commoner of the Middle Ages would have a higher STR, maybe higher CON (one issue I've seen bandied about, even by people who "should know" is that with all the protections we have now we tend to be more susceptible than someone back then who lived to the mature (back then) age of 15), but much more likelihood and frequency of impairing Physical Limitations. PS - actually I'd have to cancel out any CON advantage and probably give it to modern man, because EFFECTIVELY modern man is given a higher CON through vaccinations and healthy foods and such.

 

One thing I will say, when I was a healthy teenager I was on the farm, and a girl who was, I think, around 12 was WAY stronger than I was, I discovered, as I helped do farm chores. I mean she was noticably stronger with much greater lift and such, and I wasn't weak or anything (I was playing sports with other kids, not buff but not out of shape).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

On the issue of STR minimums for weapons: I allow characters in my fantasy hero game to buy up to five points of STR defined as "Weapon Training"' date=' which increases strength only for the purpose of wielding weapons (-3/4 Limitation).[/quote']

 

I like that approach. I note that +5 STR with a -3/4 limit costs 3 points. For many such characters (those not at or near the 20 STR breakpoint), it would be no more expensive to buy +5 STR, and sell back the resulting 2 or 3 STUN (or 1 REC). They would then get +1 PD, extra STUN or REC, and the other benefits of an extra 5 STR. But that's just a costing issue.

[Just Joe]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

I think you guys are forgetting something.

 

The "average person" includes everyone, 11 year old girls, 60 year old men, 45 year old housewives who are 100 lbs overweight. You know EVERYONE.

 

So yes, the average score for humanity is an 8.

This comment made me curious enough to look up the relevent parts of the rulebook. I am not inclined to interpret the rules as you do, but they are not exactly crystal clear on this matter. The first relevent parts I could find were on pp. 14-15, which refer to "standard normals" and "skilled normals". Neither is clearly defined, but the former generally have primary characteristics from 5 to 10, the latter from 8 to 13. The next pertinent section I found (p. 223) was the write-up for an "Average Person": someone with all 8's for primary char's. This superficially appears to support your position, but consider the following.

 

A) The term "average" has several meanings (arithmetic mean being only one of these).

 

p. 224 has a write-up for a "Noteworthy Normal": someone with all 10's for primary char's. But what would be noteworthy about someone like that based on your interpretation.

 

C) Also on p. 224 is a write-up for a "Competent Normal" (with primary char's from 10 to 14). This suggests one shouldn't take the labels for these character write-ups too literally. If I were looking for a competent barber, plumber, or waiter, I would not be looking for anything like a "competent normal".

 

My conclusion? I'm inclined to think that "average normal" is meant in a different sense from how you interpret it, but I'm also inclined to think that there;s room for more than one interpretation here.

[Just Joe]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

Y'know... I'd bet almost anything that if you started a campaign with, say, 250 points and CHAs based at 10, almost no one would sell their non-character-conception-critical CHAs down below 10. But if you started it at 275 points and CHAs based at 8, almost no one would buy their non-character-conception-critical CHAs up beyond 8...

 

Players are weird.

I think you make a good point, and it helped me to better see the value of the original suggestion of this thread.

 

Though I think most of the wierdness you describe is irrational, I think I can explain some of it. As a player, I try not to be a point-grubber, and as a GM, I tend to be annoyed by point-grubbing. In a game in which 10 is considered the default starting value, 8's tend to look like point-grubbing. In a game with no mental powers or drains, 8 int's and ego's look particularly cheesy(hey, I'll take 6 free points, 'cuz my character is just a little bit mentally "soft" -- really).

 

Of course, if the GM encouraged 8's, my attitude would be entirely different. I would note, however, that unless points are VERY tight, you're likely to get not only more 8's but also more high chars (i.e., many players are likely to use the extra points to buy up other char's, rather than buying more skills). That may be what you want, but be warned that the net effect could be to actually raise the power level of the game slightly by encouraging greater point-efficiency in the purchase of char's.

[DreadDomain]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

I use the old FUZION rule for STR. 10 STR = 220 lbs off the floor, 110 lbs to the waist, 55 lbs over the head. I think it works fairly well. And, IMO, an 8 STR seems typical for most people (at my best, I may have had a 10). TUB also has some ideas on how to determine lift.

 

For what's its worth, when I finally do THE DERELICT, the sample PCs will all start with 8s before I add in any Package Deals.

 

Personally I prefer the Ultimate Brick rule :

 

• Off the ground 100%
  
• Hip level 90%
  
• Clean and jerk 50%
  
• Snatch 40%
  

 

I just think it makes more sense under that system I am about Str 10-11 considering clean & jerk (I don't see myself as particularly strong so it seems to fit) and lifting 110kg off the ground seems fairly doable . Under Fuzion ruling, I would be STR 16-17 considering clean & jerk (which doesn't make sense) but I clearly cannot lift anywhere near 250kg off the ground.

[zornwil]

Re: Starting from 8's in Primary Characteristics

 

But can you get 440 lbs a few inches off of the ground?

I've been thinking about it and based on the heaviest things I've dealt with, no, though I could get 100 pounds over my head with a bit of struggle.

 

PS - if you mean entirely off the ground, not one end of something.