OIF for Powered Armor why?

[Trebuchet]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

As always' date=' the detractors, are asked to please head to the nearest exit. Watch your steps. Don't Push, goodbye!!!!!!!!!![/quote']Since you've provided absolutely no indication of how you think Powered Armor should be changed beyond the fact you don't think it's applied properly (Which at best is a subjective opinion), it's difficult to get real enthused about your project. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Making PA more expensive? Making it less useful? Making PA more prone to breakage? What? You've given no specifics; only a list of complaints which most of the posters here thought were unconvincing.

 

Personally, I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel. We've already got multi-ply steel-belted radials. Trying to perfect hybrid engines would be a better use of your creative energies.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Since you've provided absolutely no indication of how you think Powered Armor should be changed beyond the fact you don't think it's applied properly (Which at best is a subjective opinion), it's difficult to get real enthused about your project. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Making PA more expensive? Making it less useful? Making PA more prone to breakage? What? You've given no specifics; only a list of complaints which most of the posters here thought were unconvincing.

 

Personally, I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel. We've already got multi-ply steel-belted radials. Trying to perfect hybrid engines would be a better use of your creative energies

 

Thank you for your opinion. Take care, the exit door is to your left!!!

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

I'm sorry, I don't seem to be able to get out of the door: my power armour is too bulky.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

No problem, in my alternate rule for Powered Armor, you and Dr. Destroyer can take it off. You have to carry it yourself. Bye!!!!

[Trebuchet]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Thank you for your opinion. Take care' date=' the exit door is to your left!!![/quote']Um, no. Sorry, we were here first. Go and invent your spiffy yet pointless new rules. Go play Fuzion/V&V/SAS/Marvel/Whatever. Just do it elsewhere. We don't really care, because quite frankly you're being an ass.

 

Bye! So long! Have fun storming the castle!

 

 

 

Jeez, what a maroon.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

No problem' date=' in my alternate rule for Powered Armor, you and Dr. Destroyer can take it off. You have to carry it yourself. Bye!!!![/quote']

 

Sorry, it has a time-lock, which I thought would be a cool security feature, but now I can't get out of it when I need to, which is kind of inconvenient. Anyway, it's too heavy for me to carry if I'm not wearing it and using its strength bonus. Looks like I'm stuck here, damn this inconvenient and limiting armour. What shall we talk about?

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

I will continue on with my discussion of my new limitation for 6th Edition. Powered Armor. I will wait ( I have the time) for the detractors to leave.

 

Um, no. Sorry, we were here first. Go and invent your spiffy yet pointless new rules. Go play Fuzion/V&V/SAS/Marvel/Whatever. Just do it elsewhere. We don't really care, because quite frankly you're being an ass.

 

Bye! So long! Have fun storming the castle

 

If you are just trying to flame war, just move on. This new rule won't affect your game.

 

The point of this is to be positive. It will be an optional rule for 5th Ed and a core rule for 6th Ed. I haven't seen the ideas behind Ultimate Power Armor book, but I am sure there will be alternate rules in there. Why would people buy a book with the same rules just thrown back out???

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

It's quite nice here, isn't it? Mind you I wish I could get the face plate off this armour. I'm getting thirsty.

 

Oh yeuck! I just sneezed and the inside of my visor is all gunked up. Everything looks like it is covered in snot. You look really funny.

[bcholmes]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

(Ironman has in fact had his suit destroyed' date=' stolen, and not around when he need it...)[/quote']

 

Just thought I'd mention a few of my favourite moments (which might be good inspiration for an encounter):

 

- in an old, old issue of the Avengers, a villain was storming the mansion as Tony Stark was walking up to the mansion entrance. In those days, he carried his armour in his briefcase. Just as he was about to slip off to throw on his armour, Thor saw him there and, needing something to throw at the villain, grabbed Tony's briefcase, and hurled it at the villain.

 

- Another old issue of the Avengers: the Molecule Man arrived and created a huge city. The Avengers (Cap, Iron Man, Thor) all arrived to take out Molecule Man and he "disassembled" Cap's shield, Thor's hammer and Iron Man's armour. The rest of the story had Cap (without his shield), Tony Stark and Dr. Donald Blake trying to figure out how to defeat the villain. At the end, Molecule Man restored Thor's hammer and Cap's shield, but there were too many complicated circuits in Iron Man's armour, so he gave Stark a red and gold skintight costume that had no powers.

 

- There was a great old issue of Iron Man when he overloaded his suit and he became immobilized in it. Ant Man had to pull a "Fantastic Voyage" inside the suit to disconnect some circuit before Stark suffocated in it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Slightly more seriously, can I suggest this: I can't recall who the champion of this idea is, but I've not really agreed with it before; this seems like an ideal opportunity to apply it.

 

Where a character has power armour, and a large part, or all, of their powers are built into the armour, do not apply a limitation, but allow them to take one or more disadvantages, for example, physical disadvantages to cover breakdown, theft etc, psychological disadvantages to cover paranoia about breakdown, theft, etc, susceptibilities to cover attacks by computer virus and rust, distinctive looks, for all the obvious reasons and so on. The character is getting most of his power from the armour, so doesn't it seem logical that without the armour he doesn't have so many problems? The points available will be the same as everyone else, so PAH is no more powerful than anyone else and isn't going to spoil any games.

 

I'm not sure what you are suggesting about having a power armour framework. How would that work differently from having a 'normal' framework, allowing it to cover armour systems, and allowing the use of special powers like enhanced senses; the rules allow that already. An EC is in fact going to save you as many points or more than the OIF limitation is, so if an armour framework had similar cost breaks then I'm not sure where this is going: you'd be getting the savings and none of the problems of the focus limitation, the only down side of an EC is that adjustment powers effect everything if they effect everything. I could live with that..

 

Example of the break even point; more powers = greater savings for the EC.

 

Armour powers (all OIF -1/2)

30 Armour 15/15

30 Energy Blast 9d6

30 Flight (20" with x4NCM)

 

Total 90 points

 

Elemental Control (Armour powers)

22 Armour EC pool

23 Armour 15/15

23 Energy Blast 9d6

23 Flight (20" with x4NCM)

 

Total 91 points

[nexus]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Once again, I will be moving on with creating my specific limitation for powered armor. Those who would like to create a new rule for 6th edition, it should be in print in ohhh say.....12 years, we have some time.

[

 

Its good that you have been gifted with such awesome psychic powers. Can you tell me what the next Powerball numbers will be?

 

This rule will probably be an alternate rule or even a possible new Power Framework. Powered armor has evolved beyond what it was in the previous editions.

 

"Powered Armor" hasn't evolved. There is no need for it "evolve". Powered Armor, just like Mutant Powers or Alien is a Special Effect. It is a justification whatever Advantages and Limitations you chose to get, be they Only in Hero ID or Activation Roll.

 

Hero doesn't enforce specific Mechanics for Special Effects. There is nothing in the rules stopping me from defining an Antimatter Bomb as a Normal Attack if I want (except sense). Name one other Power Framework that exists solely to represent one sfx.

 

I knew stating the Fuzion system would get a little response. I thought it was an interesting take, but the layout of the book was somewhat of a turnoff. They seemed to cram everything to try and save space. The artwork was good, and I like it in color.

 

Colorful Garbage is still garbage *shrug*

 

As always, the detractors, are asked to please head to the nearest exit. Watch your steps. Don't Push, goodbye!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh that's nice. "Hey you're wrong and if you don't agree with me, shut up!" Always a good attitude to take. Very open minded.

 

If you want to make a campaign specific rules as in "This is how PA will work in this campaign" I'm all for that. But what you're saying is "This is how ALL PA will work, for every character, in every game and genre. Period. Because I say so and anyone that disagrees with me (including the authors of the game) are clearly wrong. That's just over the top man.

[nexus]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

No problem' date=' in my alternate rule for Powered Armor, you and Dr. Destroyer can take it off. You have to carry it yourself. Bye!!!![/quote']

 

Dr. Destroyer can already take his armor off if he choses (Of course, IIRC, he does he'll die of old age). He has "purchashed" his armor with no Limitations thus is restricts him no more than unmodified Powers restrict, say, Gravitar. His Special Effects are just Technological rather than genetic. This may -occasionally- hose him, but any SFX is going to sometimes have plusses and beneifits. That keeps them interesting, IMO.

 

As an aside, I'd like to ask you a question. You've thrown up the number of posters on this board/thread as if it was a representative sampling before. Doesn't it concern you that, if it is, NO ONE has posted anything agreeing with what you propose?

[nexus]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Thank you for your opinion. Take care' date=' the exit door is to your left!!![/quote']

 

"LALALALALA I'm NOT LISTENING. LALALALALALA!"

 

Man, I though this kind of stubborn and willful denial was limited to NGD political threads.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

- in an old' date=' old issue of the Avengers, a villain was storming the mansion as Tony Stark was walking up to the mansion entrance. In those days, he carried his armour in his briefcase. Just as he was about to slip off to throw on his armour, Thor saw him there and, needing something to throw at the villain, grabbed Tony's briefcase, and hurled it at the villain.[/quote']

 

I don't recall this one. Why didn't Thor have his hammer?

 

- Another old issue of the Avengers: the Molecule Man arrived and created a huge city. The Avengers (Cap' date=' Iron Man, Thor) all arrived to take out Molecule Man and he "disassembled" Cap's shield, Thor's hammer and Iron Man's armour. The rest of the story had Cap (without his shield), Tony Stark and Dr. Donald Blake trying to figure out how to defeat the villain. At the end, Molecule Man restored Thor's hammer and Cap's shield, but there were too many complicated circuits in Iron Man's armour, so he gave Stark a red and gold skintight costume that had no powers.[/quote']

 

That one's in the early 200's of Avengers. The Silver Surfer's board got the same treatment, and MM even commented that it, the shield and the hammer were all restored with their original molecules all intact. "so I made you an Iron Man leisure suit" has to be the best Molecule Man line of all time.

 

- There was a great old issue of Iron Man when he overloaded his suit and he became immobilized in it. Ant Man had to pull a "Fantastic Voyage" inside the suit to disconnect some circuit before Stark suffocated in it.

 

I think that's #138 or thereabouts. If I recall correctly, the armor was a prototype designed to take on the Hulk, and Tony blew all the circuits doing just that.

 

Ahhh, memories.

 

Now, turning tp Game Nerd mode, the first one could be OIF or OIHID (but IM initially had a lotr of armor problems, so I say OIF). The second is more a Focus problem - MM dispelled every focus in the Avengers arsenal. The third? I'd call that a nasty Side Effect on the prototype and some real dramatic license on the part of the GM (plus, it will teach IM's player to call ahead when he can't make Game Night! ]

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Once again' date=' I will be moving on with creating my specific limitation for powered armor. Those who would like to create a new rule for 6th edition, it should be in print in ohhh say.....12 years, we have some time.[/quote']

 

I'm interested to see it, but as others have noted, we're all still waiting, aren't we? Run your idea up the flagpole and let's see who salutes it. Assuming, of course, your idea goes beyond "It should be a separate framework"

 

This rule will probably be an alternate rule or even a possible new Power Framework.

 

All rules are optional. Show me the details.

 

Powered armor has evolved beyond what it was in the previous editions.

 

True. It has options beyond "OIF" to represent armor that, once worn, is pretty much impossible to damage or remove (OIHID; used for many versions of Iron Man). It even has the possibility it's just SFX, and no more subject to breakage or removal than, say, Superman's heat vision (no limitations; a la Dr. Destroyer). However, to date, you seem to champion "all powered armor has the same limitations whether you take the point savings or not". This is devolution. Personally, I'm disinclined to favour any approach which reduces options and makes it harder/impossible to duplicate what we see in the comics (ie some characters have powered armor that's always getting trashed or stolen, and others seem not to suffer at all from any limitation).

 

Show me your proposal, and how it will represent all of these different versions of the Powered Armor special effect.

 

I knew stating the Fuzion system would get a little response. I thought it was an interesting take' date=' but the layout of the book was somewhat of a turnoff. They seemed to cram everything to try and save space. The artwork was good, and I like it in color.[/quote']

 

In fairness, the artwork was very nice. Like in the comics, however, nice artwork + poor story/characterization still = crap. I did like the Black Paladin riding on a dragon. So that's one worthwhile character mod that all those pages managed to deliver. As for the system? Hero did anything Fuzion did, and better. Don't change it unless it's irreparably broken (a sentiment I can also apply to this tread).

 

As always' date=' the detractors, are asked to please head to the nearest exit. Watch your steps. Don't Push, goodbye!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

 

As you have pointed out, there are something like 16 of us who like the current OIF system. You are its sole detractor (unless you can point me to someone on this thread who agreed with you). The doors will be less crowded if the sole drtractor leaves, thank you.

 

PS: When posting a comment on a public forum, espoecially one which asks specifically for input (eg. "I just don't see don't see how taking the OIF limitation for powered armor is a limitation? Where is the limitation???"), perhaps it is appropriate to expect some input, likely some which disagrees with your own viewpoint.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

As an aside, I'd like to ask you a question. You've thrown up the number of posters on this board/thread as if it was a representative sampling before. Doesn't it concern you that, if it is, NO ONE has posted anything agreeing with what you propose?

 

No, I understand what happens to those who oppose the "regulars" on this board. They get attacked to the point where they leave. I fortunatley believe in the positive and believe I am going to come up with an alternate idea for the good of the game.

 

Those who have expressed their disapproval have had their opportunity. Those who have written their own experiences are much appreciated.

 

I do have a question for the detractors. Would you stop playing Champions if they adopted a rule that you don't agree with? Would you just ignore it?

 

As always rules are meant to provide a fair, balanced, fun game.

 

"Powered Armor" hasn't evolved. There is no need for it "evolve". Powered Armor, just like Mutant Powers or Alien is a Special Effect. It is a justification whatever Advantages and Limitations you chose to get, be they Only in Hero ID or Activation Roll.

 

I believe it has. Some armor will be OIF. Some armor has evolved in a Multi-form type. I am sure those who created the game in the 70's and 80's never thought of that. I would suspect the like the idea.

 

Hero doesn't enforce specific Mechanics for Special Effects. There is nothing in the rules stopping me from defining an Antimatter Bomb as a Normal Attack if I want (except sense). Name one other Power Framework that exists solely to represent one sfx.

 

In 5th ed no, but maybe in 6th ed!!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Powers for specific special effects? No, thanks. To me, "reason from effect" was the #1 most significant advancement made by Champions 1e, dropped into a marketplace where every spell was spearately defined (Fireball does 1d6 per level. Magic Missile does 2-5 per two levels. Ice Storm does 3-30 flat.), as were superpowers in those games (V&V: Ice powers do 1d8. Fire powers do 1d12. Power Blast does 1d20).

 

Rules for the effect of the power, rather than their flash, was a huge advance in the entire game industry, IMNSHO.

[Kristopher]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

As always, the detractors, are asked to please head to the nearest exit. Watch your steps. Don't Push, goodbye!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry, but you do not get to dictate who does and does not respond to your posts on these forums.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

When all the detractors (those who have nothing postive or constructive to add to the new limitation or power framework) have left, I will continue with the discussion.

[Kristopher]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

No, I understand what happens to those who oppose the "regulars" on this board. They get attacked to the point where they leave.

 

You're mistaken.

 

Off the top of my head, I've been in both strong agreement and strong disagreement, publicly, with Killer Shrike, ChuckG, OddHat, WhammeWhamme, and bblackmore. I don't always agree with anyone here -- I can't think of anyone who does.

 

The people who get whipped by the "regulars" are the people who jump in guns blazing, making accusations, and telling others to "get off my thread."

 

It also doesn't help that your proposed ideas violate one of the basic tenants of the HERO system -- special effects and mechanics are seperate. None of the Powers or Frameworks are there to represent a single SFX/superpower. You're not going to get a good response from any of the experienced HEROphiles when you suggest devolving the game that severely (that is, introducing SFX-specific rules).

 

From my personal perspective, it also doesn't help your case that you're coming off as being on the "we must be absolutely fair and equitable and balanced on every little fraction of a point spent -- we must enforce all Limits and Disads as strictly and mathematically as possible" end of the spectrum...

[Kristopher]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

When all the detractors (those who have nothing postive or constructive to add to the new limitation or power framework) have left' date=' I will continue with the discussion.[/quote']

 

 

It doesn't matter how long you wait. When you post, others see it, and they'll respond if they feel like it. There is no "leaving" and there are no private discussions. If someone wants to comment, they will, and there's nothing you can do to stop them, other than having your discussion somewhere else.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

I see several have left, take care. A few more are still milling about, no problem I can wait.

 

Just finishing up some of the details. I will be play testing my idea. I will providing regular updates!!!

[Kristopher]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

I see several have left, take care. A few more are still milling about, no problem I can wait.

 

Just finishing up some of the details. I will be play testing my idea. I will providing regular updates!!!

 

I'm not going to keep hounding this, so I'l try to give it one more clarification. They haven't left. They're just not responding right now. They'll notice what's posted, and comment if they feel like it. Every time you post to a thread, it bumps the thread to the top of the list for that forum.

 

You might wait three weeks to post your idea, but as soon as you do, someone is bound to comment, and you probably won't like it one bit, given your current track-record of responses to people who don't agree with you.

 

Maybe this doesn't concern you, but if lots of people do stop responding, it might just mean that they don't find your idea worth discussing. Or maybe they've noticed that your response to anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you is to cheerfully tell them to go away, and they've given up on having an interesting discussion with you.

 

 

EDIT: In other words, they're waiting for you to actually post your ideas in concrete form, so that they might comment on them.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Once again, all those people who would like to discuss the alternate limitation Power Armor or new Power Framework: Power Armor are advised to watch for further updates.

 

 

I like the idea of Elemental Control as Power Armor. I also like the idea of Power Armor as a mulit-form, but what about a suit of powered that can be reconfigured. I was thinking Mecha, but on a smaller scale.

[Kristopher]

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

 

Once again, all those people who would like to discuss the alternate limitation Power Armor or new Power Framework: Power Armor are advised to watch for further updates.

 

 

I like the idea of Elemental Control as Power Armor. I also like the idea of Power Armor as a mulit-form, but what about a suit of powered that can be reconfigured. I was thinking Mecha, but on a smaller scale.

 

Yes, we're aware of all of that. You've said so several times.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that you're not going to be much for interesting conversations.