Special Entangle

[Edsel]

I am thinking about a character with various powers among them is entangle.

One of the hallmarks of the character is that he has personal immunity to all his own powers. For instance he could use an entangle to form a barrier, and then walk right through it. Another effect would be that he could entangle a target. That entangle would act as a normal entangle vs. everything and everybody else, except that the character could walk up and punch whoever is entangled, bypassing the DEF & BODY of the entangle. His EB would affect the entangle since they’d presumably be the same energy frequency (or some other reasonable sounding excuse). In essence the guy can sort of “ghost†through his own entangles. Normally I’d buy this as an Entangle that takes no damage from attacks which is a (+1/2) advantage. However in this case it is fairly limited, the advantage only works as such vs. this particular character’s melee attacks.

 

Do you think this should lessen the advantage value? Should it be a minor limitation (-1/4)? Is it such a minor limitation that it is simply a (+0). Or would you handle in some other way?

[OddHat]

Re: Special Entangle

 

Semi-tough one. My first instinct is that the Entangle is purchased with Personal Immunity (which lets him walk or punch through it) and the EB is purchased with +1/4 indirect (only to shoot through entangle, -0). Other GMs might have other reactions.

[incrdbil]

Re: Special Entangle

 

Call me crazy, but have you considered the 'personal immunity' advantage on the entangle?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Special Entangle

 

Personal Immunity and a lenient GM. With a less-lenient one, perhaps they would let you buy PI twice to represent the extra things you can do.

 

I'd probably allow it with regular PI in one of my games. Keep in mind you couldn't make an entangle net to catch yourself while falling...well, you could, but you'd pass right through it.

[incrdbil]

Re: Special Entangle

 

I'd probably allow it with regular PI in one of my games. Keep in mind you couldn't make an entangle net to catch yourself while falling...well, you could, but you'd pass right through it.

 

Selective and Personal Immunity perhaps?

[TheEmerged]

Re: Special Entangle

 

Speaking for myself, I'd require only the Indirect for the ability to "ignore" the Entangle and shoot right through it. "Personal Immunity" means it has no effect should it somehow get reflected back on him.

 

As a player, however, I'd lean toward giving the Entangle the "Both Damaged" advantage for tactical reasons. It wouldn't be the effect you're seeking, but it's darn useful for its cost...

[Edsel]

Re: Special Entangle

 

Actually the idea is that the character can do various things with the form of cosmic energy he wields. He can't hurt himself with his energy blast or entangle himself. However his own energy blast is completely anulled by his entangle. I.E. If I entangle you my EB, which is made of the same energy, is completely ineffective at punching through that entangle. However since the character has personally immunity to his energy and energy constructs he can make a force wall and then walk right through it (like he is desolid). By the same tolken I can entangle Bif the baddy and although my EB can no longer touch him I can simply walk up and pummel him as if the entangle wasn't there.

 

I guess the thing to do is go with the personal immunity with all his energy powers and then stipulate, as SFX, that his own EBs are completely ineffective against his own entangles and force walls, etc.

[zornwil]

Re: Special Entangle

 

It's kind of a tough call mainly because of the potential abuse of entangling someone and then pummeling them, something Entangle is specifically not exactly for without some Advantage on that, although, as you say, in this case it's only that one character.

 

I'd say it depends a bit. If that will be a major one-two punch sort of thing or something that is strongly desirable as an attack method, I'd say Personal Immunity at +1/2 in this case, but otherwise I'd just leave it as +1/4 and accept occassional usage.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Special Entangle

 

It's kind of a tough call mainly because of the potential abuse of entangling someone and then pummeling them, something Entangle is specifically not exactly for without some Advantage on that, although, as you say, in this case it's only that one character.

 

I'd say it depends a bit. If that will be a major one-two punch sort of thing or something that is strongly desirable as an attack method, I'd say Personal Immunity at +1/2 in this case, but otherwise I'd just leave it as +1/4 and accept occassional usage.

 

I'm going to have to disagree here. An entangle that takes no damage from attacks, and can therefore alow the victim to be freely attacked by everyone, is +1/2. The fact that the user of the power can attack without being impeded by the entangle seems a reasonable inclusion in Personal Immunity (+1/4).

 

There are some drawbacks, as others have noted. This character cannot, say, plug a pit with his Entangle as a barrier and walk over it. That offsets somewhat the ability to attack through his own entangle. I would, however, rule that PI means you are not impeded by the entangle, not tnat ranged attacks you launch are not impeded by it.

[zornwil]

Re: Special Entangle

 

I'm going to have to disagree here. An entangle that takes no damage from attacks, and can therefore alow the victim to be freely attacked by everyone, is +1/2. The fact that the user of the power can attack without being impeded by the entangle seems a reasonable inclusion in Personal Immunity (+1/4).

 

There are some drawbacks, as others have noted. This character cannot, say, plug a pit with his Entangle as a barrier and walk over it. That offsets somewhat the ability to attack through his own entangle. I would, however, rule that PI means you are not impeded by the entangle, not tnat ranged attacks you launch are not impeded by it.

To be clear, so would you really still disagree if the character was tweaked to take advantage of the Personal Immunity for the purpose of freely attacking the victim? That is the scenario I'd be concerned about. Otherwise I would agree that +1/4 is fine.

[OddHat]

Re: Special Entangle

 

To be clear' date=' so would you really still disagree if the character was tweaked to take advantage of the Personal Immunity for the purpose of freely attacking the victim? That is the scenario I'd be concerned about. Otherwise I would agree that +1/4 is fine.[/quote']

 

For +1/2 he could have his entire team pound on the poor entangled schmuck and be completely within the rules. +1/4 allowing him to do it by himself and only in HtH is reasonable, imo.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Special Entangle

 

To be clear' date=' so would you really still disagree if the character was tweaked to take advantage of the Personal Immunity for the purpose of freely attacking the victim? That is the scenario I'd be concerned about. Otherwise I would agree that +1/4 is fine.[/quote']

 

Oddhat covered it.

[zornwil]

Re: Special Entangle

 

For +1/2 he could have his entire team pound on the poor entangled schmuck and be completely within the rules. +1/4 allowing him to do it by himself and only in HtH is reasonable' date=' imo.[/quote']

I would still hold out depending on how he's delivering his HTH - a move-by speedster exploiting this as a loophole's an example that comes to mind. Also, if he's immune to other powers, I'd think his ranged attacks might be set up the same way. But I understand your point, I'm just not sure I'd be as open-ended as it sounds like a very deliberate construct. OTOH, I certainly wouldn't object to +1/4 if the entangler isn't that fast or isn't otherwise gaming it, I just think that gaming aspect sounds likely the way it's described.

[OddHat]

Re: Special Entangle

 

I would still hold out depending on how he's delivering his HTH - a move-by speedster exploiting this as a loophole's an example that comes to mind. Also' date=' if he's immune to other powers, I'd think his ranged attacks might be set up the same way. But I understand your point, I'm just not sure I'd be as open-ended as it sounds like a very deliberate construct. OTOH, I certainly wouldn't object to +1/4 if the entangler isn't that fast or isn't otherwise gaming it, I just think that gaming aspect sounds likely the way it's described.[/quote']

 

I might ban the build itself; sometimes a rules-legal build is just too unbalancing for a given campaign. However, just for my own preference, I wouldn't re-price it. If he can have it at all, I'd let him have it for the by-the-book price.