tusaboss Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi! I a newbie here. I own Champions fourth edition (the one with the hero system inside) but I don't have much experience in playing it. One of the major difficulties I meet with this system is when I must translate normal equipment in hero system's terms... I was wondering if there are some official rules for chloroform...I would rule that as a 4d6 (or so) NND STUN attack performed while grabbing someone, but I don't know how to translate this well in the rules. Also, I was wondering if this is the right approach, since reading some post I have seen that other people treat this maneuver in other ways... So I am curious on how you deal with this, and if there are some official rules...I always found funny that a superhero roleplaying game doesn't have rules for such a common attack in the superheroes genre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform I know how chloroform works in real life... What ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform Hi! I a newbie here. I own Champions fourth edition (the one with the hero system inside) but I don't have much experience in playing it. One of the major difficulties I meet with this system is when I must translate normal equipment in hero system's terms... I was wondering if there are some official rules for chloroform...I would rule that as a 4d6 (or so) NND STUN attack performed while grabbing someone, but I don't know how to translate this well in the rules. Also, I was wondering if this is the right approach, since reading some post I have seen that other people treat this maneuver in other ways... So I am curious on how you deal with this, and if there are some official rules...I always found funny that a superhero roleplaying game doesn't have rules for such a common attack in the superheroes genre... You answered your own question. Create the NND with however many dice you feel are appropriate (defense being being an appropriate LS vs. breathing). I'd recommend 3d6. Chloroform could be delivered in a variety of ways, but if you're asking about the stereotypical hand-with-chloroformed-cloth-over-the-mouth-trick, then just give it the limitation "must follow grab" (-1/2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform You may also want to attach a number of other powers if you're going for the "TV Chloro" effect. A small flash vs scent, a STR Suppress (since superhumanly strong people can somehow be grabbed by normals for this attack), etc. You also might want to make the NND Continuous, to reflect that a to-hit roll after the first one is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tusaboss Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform Well, I guess this is REALLY a newbie question, but what is the basic cost of a 3d6 NND attack? It should be treated as an Hand to Hand Attack, or a Energy Blast with 0 range or what? Also, if I take Suppress, how I deal with the END cost? It should cost no END since the power comes from the object, but then the Suppress would be permanent? It would be better if the Suppress lasted only while the grab is occurring. Also, how to link the NND damage to the grab hit roll? It would be useful if the NND damage was triggered with a succesful grab attempt, because i don't know how to deal with an attack roll performed while holding a grab... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform It would be better to take Drain, rather than Suppress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform Well' date=' I guess this is REALLY a newbie question, but what is the basic cost of a 3d6 NND attack? It should be treated as an Hand to Hand Attack, or a Energy Blast with 0 range or what? Also, if I take Suppress, how I deal with the END cost? It should cost no END since the power comes from the object, but then the Suppress would be permanent? It would be better if the Suppress lasted only while the grab is occurring. Also, how to link the NND damage to the grab hit roll? It would be useful if the NND damage was triggered with a succesful grab attempt, because i don't know how to deal with an attack roll performed while holding a grab...[/quote'] NND is _usually_ based on EB. So It would a 15 active point power with a +1 advantage (NND) and a -1/2 limitation (no range)... (normally 20 real points) note, however, that other advantages (such as 0 Endurance Cost), and other limitations (Focus, Must Follow Grab) will affect that. As for Suppress... it won't be permanent, since it's a constant power... it switches off as soon as they stop holding the rag to their nose (constant powers, even 0 End ones, have to be maintained... and interfere with your ability to act normally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform As for Suppress... it won't be permanent, since it's a constant power... it switches off as soon as they stop holding the rag to their nose (constant powers, even 0 End ones, have to be maintained... and interfere with your ability to act normally). Which is why I suggested Suppress over Drain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tusaboss Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform So, here is what I obtained: Chloroform Rag: -4d6 EB, NND (+1) No Range (-1/2) Continuous (+1), 0 END (-1/2), OAF (-1/2), Only while grabbing (-1/2) Independent (-2) :8 pts. -2d6 Suppress Strenght, NND, No Range, Continuous, 0 END, OAF, Only while grabbing, Independent: 4 pts. Total: 12 pts. Quite low, for such a powerful tool: I made a proof and a simple grunt with STR13 and Martial Grab skill can knock out the average superheroine in 2-3 turns, provided that he manages to grab her. Anyway, there is still the point on how I can merge the three effects in just one attack roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform So, here is what I obtained: Chloroform Rag: -4d6 EB, NND (+1) No Range (-1/2) Continuous (+1), 0 END (-1/2), OAF (-1/2), Only while grabbing (-1/2) Independent (-2) :8 pts. -2d6 Suppress Strenght, NND, No Range, Continuous, 0 END, OAF, Only while grabbing, Independent: 4 pts. Total: 12 pts. Quite low, for such a powerful tool: I made a proof and a simple grunt with STR13 and Martial Grab skill can knock out the average superheroine in 2-3 turns, provided that he manages to grab her. Anyway, there is still the point on how I can merge the three effects in just one attack roll... Well, if you want to have the entire effect take a single Attack Roll, you could buy Clinging Usable On Others (As An Attack), to enable you to hang on to your opponent. Then all three Powers could go off together as a single attack. You'd lose the "Must Follow Grab" Limitation, but OTOH you could apply the Linked Lim (-1/2) to the two smallest Powers in the set, Linking them to the one with the largest Active Points so that they all must go off together. In fact if you buy up the Strength of Clinging, you might not need the Suppress Strength Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform Suppress works against Power Defense, which is pretty rare in most campaigns. As such the NND on it probably wouldn't be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tusaboss Posted January 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: rules for chloroform Well, I am not trying to Min/Max; of course I want to keep the cost low since this is intended as a tool for the average crook or low powered minion...Supervillains have no need for that. I want to resolve the whole action mostly for game speed. Maybe it may be solved by linking Suppres to the stun damage, so it would need just one roll to grab and just one to chloroform (in the hope that the roll is successful so I don't need re-rolling in the next turn)... I am a bit puzzled about taking clinging to simulate this...By doing that, it doesn't mean that you may then cling wall by using the chloroform rag? As a general question, if I take a power as Usable against others, then I maiy still use for the original purpose (e.g. using clinging to cling) Same question for Damage Shield: if I have an EB with damage shield, I can still use it to make ranged attack, or the whole power is usable only as a Damage Shield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Re: rules for chloroformFor mooks who are supposed to grab the hero but end up getting trounced, I would go with 3d6. For name villains who are supposed to take out the superheroine to wake her up later in a death-trap sans Lasso and Bracelets, I would up it to 4d6, maybe 5d6 if it's the major villain. I'd also remove the Independent, since it's likely the villain has a bottle of more somewhere, and even if that's taken away, he can acquire more "between scenes." Here's how I'd do it in 5ER: Cost Power END 21 Chloroform: EB 3d6, 6 Boostable Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0), Continuous (+1), NND (defense is Life Support [self-Contained Breathing] or Life Support [immunity]; +1) (45 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; -1), Must Follow Grab (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) plus Suppress STR 2d6, 6 Boostable Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0), Continuous (+1) (20 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; -1), Must Follow Grab (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (EB; -1/2) [6 bc] Powers Cost: 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Re: rules for chloroform Chloroform EB 3d6, NND (LS: Self Contained Breathing/Holding Breath) (+1), Continuous (+1), Extra Time: Delayed Phase (-1/4), No Range (-1/2), Must Grab (-1/2), No END (+1/2), OAF: Chloroform (-1) 16 Points Delayed Phase is "Soaking the cloth" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Re: rules for chloroform [creepy innuendo about my non Hero board net time] In certain sub genres of Superhero comic, chloroform has a MUCH higher dice total and seems to surpress powers. [/creepy innuendo about my non Hero board net time] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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