Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

[Wanderer]

A character feature that the canon No Conscious Control limitation does not cover well is the occurrence (frequent in comic books and fantasy) of superhuman/magical/psychic powers which the character is able to activate at will and control effects thereof (and hence aren't burdened with No Conscious Control), but nonetheless aren't fully under the character's control in times of stress: either powers activate on their own (causing messy effects like crushing what the character is handling for superstrong bricks, poltergeist effects for telekinetics, nearby objects being damaged by sfx-appropriate energy discharges (catching fire, electrical surges, etc.) for energy projectors, mentalists inflicting mental illusions or Mind control on otehrs, shapeshifters randomly changing shape, etc. and the character isn't able to use powers at less than full ability when excited/agitated. I'm uncertain whether to do this with a reduced value of the Uncontrolled Limitation, or maybe better with a Physical Limitation:

 

Physical Limitation: May Lose Control of Powers When Excited/Agitated (Frequently, Slightly Impairing): the character needs to succeed on an Dex/Ego roll (GM's call) to avoid powers activating on their own and affecting his surroundings in an inconvenient way, or to use less than full powers in combat.

 

Physical Limitation: Does Not Fully Control Powers When Excited/Agitated (Frequently, Greatly Impairing): when the character is significantly stressed, he must use his powers at full, and powers tend to activate on their own, damaging or otherwise affecting neraby objects and people in a generally inconvenient way.

[nexus]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I'd go with the Physical Limitation. Its a limitation on the character, not on his powers per se. Omega can summon his devastating Omega Eye beams at will when he needs them and control with precision but when he's startled sometimes what he's looking at at the time pays the price.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I thought Side Effects was what this was supposed to represent. Trigger them by the activation of Psychological Limitations or the like. Perhaps even just make EGO rolls necessary to activate the power regularly. At -10 per AP to the roll it is perhaps too much but -20 might just do the ticket.

 

Hawksmoor

-PS Nexus love the Avatar. Did Chris do it?

[GaryB]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

You could also be creative and use a form of Accidental Change or Enraged.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I would go with either a lesser version of Uncontrolled (half value), a Side Effect or a Psychological Limitation (which come with a build-in need for an Ego Roll at the Strong level). Physical Limitation might be appropriate if there was nothing the character could do about it, but in most cases I've seen in the source material the character tends to try to calm himself in some way or otherwise concentrate to force the powers to stop working (though in some cases, they do just stand there as their powers go haywire).

[nexus]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I thought Side Effects was what this was supposed to represent. Trigger them by the activation of Psychological Limitations or the like. Perhaps even just make EGO rolls necessary to activate the power regularly. At -10 per AP to the roll it is perhaps too much but -20 might just do the ticket.

 

Hawksmoor

-PS Nexus love the Avatar. Did Chris do it?

 

I thought Side Effects represented something that happened when the powers didn't work regularly (had an activation roll, required a skill roll, etc) or under some circumstances had an ill effect on the pc or his surroundings (though I guess now that I think about it being startled is a situation). I confess that I haven't reviewed 5th Edition Side Effect though. I got the impression Wanderer wanted a dependenable power that the PC had trouble controlling duruing certain moments such as being startled extremely emotion, etc. It would just accidentally activate regardless of his wishes, not a power had trouble calling on when he wanted.

 

And yes, he did, thanks! I'll be posting the entire picture later.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

It does, but there is no reason in theory that side effects have to activate immediately: you could save up the bad stuff and have it go off when you like, or when the GM likes....if you want to do it in game effects terms you would in essence have the side effect trigegred.

 

I think Side effects is the way to go, which means I'm agreeing with Hawksmoor and the world is therefere about to end.

 

Been good knowing you!

[nexus]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I can't help it, it just feels more like a Physical Limitation to me. The power isn't limited at all, you can use it when ever you want but when the character is subjected to certain situations his power might go off. It seems alot like Accidental Change applied to an Instant power such as Energy Blast or Telekinsis instead of shapeshifting or multiform.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

Fair enough interpretation - not saying that approach is wrong at all, it should work fine, but I kind of like the idea of 'storing up the bad' you can get with side effects. I suppose it depends what effect you are after (and whether you want a cheaper power or more disad points....)

[Wanderer]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

me back. I had some more time to think about the issue, so...

 

Nexus was right. I was indeed trying to set up a situation where a power (typically an attack power, but it might also be used to cover body- or sense- affecting powers, or movement powers) might be reliably activated when the character wills it (or not; the character might also suffer an AR or an RSR and maybe a Side Effect, but I think the situations are quite distinct), but it tends to be difficult controlling during certain moments such as being severely stressed, experiencing a really intense emotions, etc. tartled extremely emotion, etc. In these situations, it would tend to accidentally activate regardless of his wishes, and go off on its own, typically causing trouble: damaging the environment, scaring off bystanders, etc.

 

On further reflection, I think that Hero system lacks a precise tool to reflect this situation, but the rule that most closely approximates it is a Physical Limitation, even if in some parts it resembles Enraged, Psychological Limitation, or Accidental Change.

 

I thought it might be covered by a Physical Limitation, using Enraged and/or Accidental Change scales as a model, i.e.

 

Limitation: Uncontrollable Powers (a subtype of Physical Limitation).

 

Character has difficulty controlling its powers: they may activate on their own, or he has trouble using them at less than full potential.

 

Trigger situation: there might be hypothetically many of these, but the by far most common one would be severe stress and/or extreme emotional states (also the typical trigger for such an occurence in source material):

 

When Character is Excited/Stressed/Agitated:

Common Circumstance/Frequently (+10).

 

Chance for Power to Activate on its own:

Infrequently/Slightly Impairing: (8-) (+0)

Frequently/Greately Impairing (11-) (+5)

Very Frequently/Fully Impairing (14-) (+10)

 

Alternatively, or in combination, character might have also trouble reining in his powers, ie. Pulling punches and using Attack powers at less than full potential during times of stress and intense emotion, and this might be covered using the table to recover from Enraged:

 

Chance to use Power at less than full potential:

14- (+0)

11- (+5)

8- (+10)

 

(I also ought to figure how to work this model in Hero Designer, sigh)

 

As for the consequences of the power accidentally activating, these would vary according to power, but typically it would involve damage or endangerment of the environment, and scaring off or harming bystanders: superstrong bricks damage what they are holding or touching, energy projectors shoot off blasts or cause fires, electrical surges, sudden weather changes, cryo-freeze stuff, telekinetics create poltergeists, mentalists cause hallucinations or induce extreme emotional states in bystanders, metamorphs randomly change shapes (differently from Accidental Change, this not cause the character always to change in a fixed form: type of change varies according to the character's emotional state, unconscious, source of stress, etc.), speedsters/teleporters/flyers shoot off or teleport in random directions, etc.

[sinanju]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I can't help it' date=' it just feels more like a Physical Limitation to me. The power isn't limited at all, you can use it when ever you want but when the character is subjected to certain situations his power might go off. It seems alot like Accidental Change applied to an Instant power such as Energy Blast or Telekinsis instead of shapeshifting or multiform.[/quote']

 

I agree. And I'll note that GGU master list of limitations includes "Crushing Grip" as a physical limitation for superstrong characters. It represents the tendency for them to do accidental damage when in the grip of strong emotions. It gives you a few points for the disad but doesn't actually reduce the cost of the power. I think it's probably the best representation of this sort of thing, and pretty easily used for telekinetic effects or power surges, etc. around a character as well.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

The convention I use is a "graduated" version of No Conscious Control. It starts at -1 for "Limited Conscious Control" -- the character has a chance to activate it at will (or deactivate it, as appropriate) AND there's an equal chance it will go off at inappropriate times. For -1/2 that's an "or".

 

For example, Karl "The Creep" Bensom has +30 PRE with the -1 version (and Costs END too, for the record). He has an 12- chance to activate this when he wants to, and will pay the 3 END either way (just like a normal activation roll). Flip side is there's an 12- chance it will go off when he *doesn't* want it to as well...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I can't help it' date=' it just feels more like a Physical Limitation to me. The power isn't limited at all, you can use it when ever you want but when the character is subjected to certain situations his power might go off. It seems alot like Accidental Change applied to an Instant power such as Energy Blast or Telekinsis instead of shapeshifting or multiform.[/quote']

 

 

Turns out you were right, so we're all good, yeah? Well, apart from me: I'm bad. Everyone else is good though. Especially you,

[Wanderer]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

Ok, I would set up such a Limitation as follows:

 

Physical Limitation: Uncontrolled Powers When Excited/Stressed/Agitated. (Frequently, Greatly Impairing, powers activate on their own in inappropriate circumstances 11-, be able to use powers at less than full potential 11-)

 

20 pts (15 for a Frequently, Greatly Impairing Physic Lim, plus a 5-pts. Adder for the difficulty to Pull powers when stressed or agitated).

 

On futher reflection, I think such a limitation would get along well with having an Activation Roll (or RSR) and a Side Effect, and with Psychological Limitations showing either a lack of control over one's emotional states (Enraged, Bad-Tempered, Impulsive, Lecherous, Loves Combat, Overconfident, Thrillseeker, Vengeful), or excessive repression of them (Grim and Humorless, Perfectionist, Cold And Aloof, Control Freak).

 

It is also quite appropriate for character who are new to superhuman power and have a lot of potential in it, but little structured training or extensive experience. Quite a bit like the "cocky young hero" so common in anime.

[Wanderer]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I realized you may qualify the Limitation further by drawing more on its similiarities with Enraged, Activation Roll and Strong Psych Lims and better define the circumstances of activation and ending: Every Phase a character is in a situation where he may lose cpntrol of his Powers, he should roll his chance to see if it does. In many cases, the Power(s) may accidentally activate on its own just once during an intense stress or emotion, but for more severe forms of the problem, it can keep happening as long as the character is emotionally upset or stressed, and it may be necessary to roll regaining control of the Power(s) after the first "incident". If the character fails the roll, his Powers keep activating in inconvenient ways for that Phase. if the Recover roll is successful, he has regained full control of his powers, and there are no further incidents for that scene. If the character is Stunned, Knocked Out, runs out of END, the cause of stress is removed, or his emotional state changes, the attack ends immediately. On the other hand, trouble with using Powers at less than full potential should always last as long as the character is stressed or upset.

 

Chance to Recover control of Powers:

 

Always (-5)

14- (+0)

11- (+5)

8- (+10)

 

At this point, however, I am uncertain whether to keep difficulty to rein in Powers as part of the Limitation Construct, or drop it and make it a distinct Physical Limitation. I'm also uncertain whether to always make rolls to lose and recover control of powers straight rolls, as in Accidental Change and Enraged, or allow rolling Characteristics (probably DEX and/or EGO) intheir place, and if so, how much it would be worth.

 

Opinions ? Suggestions ?

[Kristopher]

Re: Semi-Uncontrolled Powers

 

I'm trying to come up with limitations for a similar purpose for a character I just started working on.

 

Character Work in Progress -- Kriegmädchen