Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

[BlueBuddha]

I've got a player that wants to base his Entangle on Dex. The special effect would be that it can't be physically broken, but it can be squirmed out of.

 

I'm a little funny on this one. What do you guys think?

[Mike W]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

You could build this thing one of two ways - depending how expensive you want to make it. The main thing is to determine how difficult it is to get out of.

 

The expensive way to build:

 

Just buy LOTS of Entangle(about 10-12D6, maybe more depending on the campaign). Sure, it will be expensive, even if it's OAF, but if you buy enough that the Superman class people can only get a BODY or two per attempt, the thing is virtually unbreakable by conventional mean. Probably have to buy it hardened though. Sure it's a ton of points, but having a power that can overpower any attack in the CU is going to cost a ton. It's like building Juggernaut's invulnerability.

 

The cheap way:

 

Would actually require a GM ruling - but you're the GM.

 

Since you can define any focus as unbreakable...can you "break" an entangle in an unbreakable focus(think Wonder Woman's lasso)?

[Kristopher]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

Hmmm...

 

There's Based on EGO as an Advantage, and Based on CON as a Limitation...is there any potential in a Based on DEX Advantage/Limitation?

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

Hmmm...There's Based on EGO as an Advantage' date=' and Based on CON as a Limitation...is there any potential in a Based on DEX Advantage/Limitation?[/quote']Sounds reasonable to me. Probably cheaper than based on EGO, since more people have DEX of 20+ than EGO, but I think it's a good way to treat it.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

I've got a player that wants to base his Entangle on Dex. The special effect would be that it can't be physically broken, but it can be squirmed out of.

 

I'm a little funny on this one. What do you guys think?

 

Let me start by saying that "it can't be physically broken, but it can be squirmed out of" isn't a special effect. A Questionite Net would be a special effect. Unbreakable Saran Wrap Bindings would be a special effect. I'm sure your player can be more descriptive. For this little piece of cheddar, he should really be trying harder.

 

That being said, I would allow it, with a couple of stipulations:

 

1. You're gonna pay for it. DEX isn't a stat you go and buy a lot of (compared to STR or EB), which is what your player is counting on. So a 6d6, 6 DEF Entange (60 Active Points) will incapacitate even the most wily Martial Artist in your game. I would only allow it if the player is paying for the effect accordingly. The Custom Advantage 'Based On DEX' would at least be a +1 in my game. Which means those 60 points now only render you a 3d6, 3DEF DEX Entangle. Most of your characters won't be able to shrug that off, but they'll be able to break out eventually, which puts it much on par with a regular STR Entangle.

 

2. It's on probation. I would tell the player up front that if I find the construct at any time to be too overbalancing for my campaign it's gone, but he's got it for the next two game sessions free and clear. I also remind him that anything the players are allowed, the NPCs are allowed, too, and the GM isn't limited by silly things like 'points'.

 

At least, that's what I think.

[Alibear]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

You get out of most Entangles with Str, right?

 

Dex costs 3x Str, so A Dex based entangle should cost 3x as much. If one of my players came to me with this, that is what i would rule.

[BlueBuddha]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

Let me start by saying that "it can't be physically broken' date=' but it can be squirmed out of"[/i'] isn't a special effect.

 

To be precise, you are correct. The HERO games definition of "Special Effects" isn't the term I should have used. "Explanation" or "rationale" would have been a better choice. It looks like most people understood what I was getting at.

 

I also agree with the rest of your post. This is also what I thought of when he proposed it. I actually run a lower-dex campaign than the standard CU campaign, so the average dex is going to run a bit lower even then the published characters. I like the idea of putting a power on probation. I'll probably tell him that right away.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[zornwil]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

You get out of most Entangles with Str, right?

 

Dex costs 3x Str, so A Dex based entangle should cost 3x as much. If one of my players came to me with this, that is what i would rule.

Yeah, I was going to suggest this.

 

Another approach I might add would be an NND Entangle, getting out is successful DEX roll at -1/5 AP or such a thing, that should be fairly satisfactory, too, to many if not most GMs.

 

I know this is ancient, but I wanted to suggest an NND Entangle because...well, it sounds cool...

[Fox1]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

You get out of most Entangles with Str, right?

 

Dex costs 3x Str, so A Dex based entangle should cost 3x as much. If one of my players came to me with this, that is what i would rule.

 

 

That's how I would price it.

[Inu]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

Since you can define any focus as unbreakable...can you "break" an entangle in an unbreakable focus(think Wonder Woman's lasso)?

That would be dodgy. Besides, you don't necessarily have to shatter the entangling object to get out of it. The lasso thing could be escaped by, say, loosening its hold enough that you can step out of it, without harming the actual lasso at all.

 

For the general discussion: I wouldn't just say it's triple cost, simply because dex is more expensive than strength. I'd say, look at campaign averages of Str and Dex. If the average is about the same, then the price shouldn't be that much more, because it's not that much more valuable (it's still more valuable, because I'll bet Str 60 is more common than Dex 60). But if few enemies have greater than 30 Str, and many have above 20 Dex... then triple cost is simply too high. ('too high' meaning, for me, it's something I'd never buy. 'too cheap' means you're a fool if you don't buy it, 'too expensive' means you're a fool if you do. 'just right' is somewhere in the middle.)

 

IMO.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

Personally, issues like this are what Contortionist was designed for. If they had that skill...and the SPFX of the Entangle permitted, I'd allow them a chance to make a roll(with some penalties to be sure). Otherwise, I probably wouldn't let them do it unless the circumstances were unique.

 

Rob

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Wiggling your way out- Entangle based on Dex

 

IIRC Digital Hero #5 had a section by Steve Long on Entangles vs characteristics other than STR. You might want to check that out....