Throwing stuff

[TaxiMan]

Man, don't know why but the answer to this simple question evaded me this weekend. How much damage does a thrown object do? I seem to remember it does STR damage, limited by BODY + DEF of the object, but I can't find it. And does it do that damage at any point in the throw (i.e. does it lose energy toward the end)? What happens if a PC throws a pointy thing (e.g. a handy harpoon from the deck of a whaling ship) - is that a killing attack with the same DC as STR/5?

 

Range modifiers to OCV + aerodynamics etc., and distance from the STR table I've got. Just don't know why I can't find this one. Seems so basic. Hate to post such a simple question; it might damage my reputation.

 

Wait! It's OK, I don't HAVE a reputation! Whew, close one!

[TaxiMan]

Another thing to muddy the waters. If we're talking about telekinesis throwing something, does the PC need to buy an EB or RKA to do this often? Or maybe use the Power skill? Or do you just go with it and give them a freeby ranged attack?

[TaxiMan]

A freeby INDIRECT ranged attack? Seems like you're getting a lot for your money with TK.

[TaxiMan]

I'm sad. No responses. Oh well, at least I get my post count to increase. And I was doing so well before the boards crashed!

[Oruncrest]

Actually, we're just flippin' pages, just like you.

In the 'throwing things' section on FREd page 21, it says to 'use (a PC's) full STR to determine damage from (a thrown object), if applicable'. Later, on pg 302, column 2, paragraph 5, it says that the maximum damage which can be done with an object equals it's combined DEF+BODY, with the object breaking if the PC tries to do additional damage.

As for your second question, most harpoons (or throwing axes, or throwing knives or spears, or...) would be written as HKA, usable at range since you could use it as both a hand-to-hand weapon and a throwing weapon as well. so you wouldn't need to buy a seperate KA for it unless you used it often. Also, unless you had Weapon Familiarity with the harpoon, you would suffer a -3 OCV anytime you tried to use it (FREd pg 53, col 1, par 2).

[jtelson]

QUOTE]Another thing to muddy the waters. If we're talking about telekinesis throwing something, does the PC need to buy an EB or RKA to do this often? Or maybe use the Power skill? Or do you just go with it and give them a freeby ranged attack?

 

As always working backward from effect. Hurting someone at range is generally EB or RKA. I'd make them buy it, if they wanted to have that ability.[

[TaxiMan]

Cool! I'd forgotten about the -3 OCV - that's good because it tends to prevent abuse (of TK and STR fro throwing). Thanks for the page references, I checked in the wonderful index under "Throw xxxx" & didn't see those. Tonight I'll check to see if I was blind - if not, I'll add them in!

[archermoo]

Originally posted by Oruncrest

Also, unless you had Weapon Familiarity with the harpoon, you would suffer a -3 OCV anytime you tried to use it (FREd pg 53, col 1, par 2).

 

Keep in mind that is only true if you didn't pay points for the weapon. FREd pg53 col 1 par 1 specifies that if you pay points for a weapon you automatically know how to use it, barring a Limitation to the contrary. Granted in the specific example it wouldn't apply (handy harpoon picked up from the environment), but it is always good to point these things out.

[archermoo]

Originally posted by TaxiMan

Another thing to muddy the waters. If we're talking about telekinesis throwing something, does the PC need to buy an EB or RKA to do this often? Or maybe use the Power skill? Or do you just go with it and give them a freeby ranged attack?

 

Well, it isn't a freeby ranged attack. It is one that they paid for. Do you make people pay for an EB or RKA to pick up and throw things with their normal STR? Picking up things and throwing them with TK is one of the things specifically listed in FREd (p147) as a thing TK can be used for. And it is only Indirect in some ways. Also specifically discussed in FREd (p147).

[TaxiMan]

Well, it isn't a freeby ranged attack. It is one that they paid for.

 

Exactly my question! Where do you draw the line between SFX and Powers? You are generous with SFX apparently. For example, would you require your players to have a "Brick Tricks" multipower? One that lets them tie up bad guys with steel bars, knock down opponents by pounding the ground, etc. etc. I've mostly seen people say "let 'em do it once, maybe with a Power Skill roll - if they do it more often, they have to buy the Power."

 

You seem to be saying, let them do it all the time for free - forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you. But a Brick "paid points for" his STR, so he should be able to deafen people with supersonic eraser clapping?

 

I'm not sold either way, but I lean towards explicitly buying some uses for TK. I was confused a little by the EB / RKA thing since I really DIDN'T want to explicitly buy those (it's a personal thing). But with the addition of the -3 OCV for unfamiliar weapon, I'm now a happy camper - you don't have to buy EB and RKA but you don't get an exact duplicate of an EB / RKA - you have to use it like a Real Weapon.

 

This approach lets me buy those uses of TK that I want to use without penalty, and not buy those that I don't mind the penalty. I can still perform those actions, but not as well as if I had them in a "TK Tricks" multipower. I like that.

[archermoo]

Originally posted by TaxiMan

Exactly my question! Where do you draw the line between SFX and Powers? You are generous with SFX apparently. For example, would you require your players to have a "Brick Tricks" multipower? One that lets them tie up bad guys with steel bars, knock down opponents by pounding the ground, etc. etc. I've mostly seen people say "let 'em do it once, maybe with a Power Skill roll - if they do it more often, they have to buy the Power."

 

You seem to be saying, let them do it all the time for free - forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you. But a Brick "paid points for" his STR, so he should be able to deafen people with supersonic eraser clapping?

 

I'm not sold either way, but I lean towards explicitly buying some uses for TK. I was confused a little by the EB / RKA thing since I really DIDN'T want to explicitly buy those (it's a personal thing). But with the addition of the -3 OCV for unfamiliar weapon, I'm now a happy camper - you don't have to buy EB and RKA but you don't get an exact duplicate of an EB / RKA - you have to use it like a Real Weapon.

 

This approach lets me buy those uses of TK that I want to use without penalty, and not buy those that I don't mind the penalty. I can still perform those actions, but not as well as if I had them in a "TK Tricks" multipower. I like that.

 

Have you actually read the text for TK? It specifies picking up things and throwing them as something TK is designed to be used for. It also specifies just simply hitting people with a TK fist as something it is designed to do. If you can show me something in the book that states that deafening people by clapping erasers together is something specifically in mind when STR was designed, then sure, let 'em do it.

 

And again, I'm not saying "let them do it all the time for free". I'm saying that since they paid points for the power, and that one of the things that the power is designed to do is allow people to do damage at range, I don't make them pay extra to be able to do it. Letting the people use a power as designed shouldn't require extra points.

 

When someone buys STR in your game, do you require them to buy leaping if they use their "free" leaping from STR too much? Or if someone buys Desolid, do you make them pay extra if they go through walls on a regular basis?

[JohnTaber]

Hi TaxiMan,

 

Re: TK vs EB/RKA. My take here is really simple. TK is REALLY expensive. For 75 points you get 50 STR or 10d6. Also the object being used as the bludgeon will often not take this abuse and will shatter. Both of these issues are pretty restrictive. For the same points I could buy a 15d6 EB or a 5d6 RKA to simulate throwing something with TK. The effectiveness of these is MUCH greater! Simply let the PC buy it how they want...hec put all three into an EC or Multipower and go crazy. Get it?

 

I don't see a problem...

[pinecone]

John T...you stole the words otta my mouth...

[Heroman]

Re: TK vs EB/RKA. My take here is really simple. TK is REALLY expensive. For 75 points you get 50 STR or 10d6.

Um, yeah, but TK can also:

Grab, Squeeze, Throw, push objects, with Fine manip do anything your hand can, and with allowances martial maneuvers which the character has paid points for.

If you want your "TK" like power to only "Hurt! Smash!" then ya really are not buying TK....

[TaxiMan]

Thanks all for the feedback. I must have gotten a wire crossed somewhere - never let it be said TaxiMan can't change his mind!

 

To recap, a PC with TK can use Objects of Opportunity to attack at range with no OCV penalty. The damage is limited to (TK STR/5) DC or (BODY + DEF) of the object, whichever is lower. The damage is Normal or Killing, depending on the object, its usage, and is the GM's call. IDHMBIFOM so I'll review any potential range penalties tonight.

 

Thanks again! You know how sometimes you look at a common word and say, "that can't be spelled right!" - that must have been what happened.

 

Hey archermoo - sorry if I ruffled feathers, was not my intent. 'Preciate the feedback!

[archermoo]

Originally posted by TaxiMan

Thanks all for the feedback. I must have gotten a wire crossed somewhere - never let it be said TaxiMan can't change his mind!

 

To recap, a PC with TK can use Objects of Opportunity to attack at range with no OCV penalty. The damage is limited to (TK STR/5) DC or (BODY + DEF) of the object, whichever is lower. The damage is Normal or Killing, depending on the object, its usage, and is the GM's call. IDHMBIFOM so I'll review any potential range penalties tonight.

 

Thanks again! You know how sometimes you look at a common word and say, "that can't be spelled right!" - that must have been what happened.

 

Hey archermoo - sorry if I ruffled feathers, was not my intent. 'Preciate the feedback!

 

No ruffled feathers, sorry if it seemed like that. I was honestly curious if you'd read what the book has to say about TK. Because it didn't seem like it from what you were saying in your posts. In any case, glad I could help. Although keep in mind that yes you can use an object of opportunity to do STR/5 DC or object BODY + DEF whichever is lower. But you can also just do a straight STR/5 DC by punching with TK. What an object gives you is the same thing it gives a Brick: If you use a large object, you can do AE damage. Otherwise there is no reason to use an object with TK to just hit someone. Unless the TK is bought with a limit saying that it cannot do damage directly.