TheEmerged Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Got the Wonder Woman Season 2 DVD? Good. Check out Disk 1, Side 1, episode 3 -- The Man Who Could Move the World. One of the betters eps in the series... well it's my favorite, anyway. In particular I'm talking about the Mine Field scene. /short description for those without the DVD Wonder Woman is facing a telekinetic. She's trying to talk him out of the fight and failing miserably (I mean, he doesn't even bite at "Whatever you want, I'll do..." ). He yells "Stop!" and suddenly she stops, fidgetting against some unseen force -- we've seen him do something similar a couple of times in the episode. Here's where things get a little different different. He then says "You will move, now, only when I command" -- then procedes to command her to turn around and watch. He throws a stone, revealing a mine field. He then commands her to walk -- repeatedly. Sometimes she takes a step without being told, sometimes she has to be told a couple of times to take a step. At least once toward the end of the sequence, she manages to "half obey" him by taking less than a full step. Of course, they wait until her foot is just over a mine when he Focus blows up (probably because it's actually an END pool that just ran out...)... /end short description Now, here's the question. Is this a Mind Control of some kind, or simply him using his TK to move her like a puppet and the talking represents some kind of focusing crutch on his side? If it's Mind Control, is he maintaining the "don't move" command with END while trying to force new "walk" commands? Do the varying number of attempts per success indicate completely seperate attempts, or a Cumulative advantage that got one lucky roll? If it's TK, is this a good example of someone exceeding the "two flat boards" principle, perhaps to such an extent he had to pay for Extra TK limbs? I have my own opinion (#2), but I'm curious how others view it or if there's another interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms To paraphrase a TV advert in the UK that has managed to enter common parlance over here: "it does exactly what it says on the tin". Which is to say, he's issuing commands verbally, she's resisting, sounds like mind control to me. Which isnt to say it doesnt have an SFX of Mind Control and may even have a limitation (-1 probably) to say it's resisted by STR rather than EGO and another (-1/2 this time) to limit it to 'telekinetic mind control only'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms This actually sounds like a good example of bad TV writing and limited SFX budgets. An episode of Star Trek original series had an entire group of Telekinetics who had Kirk and co. doing essentially the same thing as WW. The TV WW's Strength was never shown to be as strong as the comic version so I'd have to go with TK. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms I agree with Hyperman. It's poor blocking by the director combined with a poor SFX budget and mediocer acting (but hey, it was right up there with everything else of that era!). For the purpose of write it up, I'd say go with TK. If the villain was a teek and showed absolutey no mind powers whatsoever, there's no need to give him any. With TK, he could just be making a STR vs STR roll with WW to force her to move. I'm sure he could have just picked her up and started smaking the mind field with her until she popped, but that's not nearly as dramatic and frighting. Must better to try to force her to "walk" across a mind field and "step" on a mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms You have to admit though, if it weren't for villians with bad ideas, there'd be alot more dead heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms You could build TK man as the following: 20 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, 0 Endurance: +1/2 plus +10 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, Incantation: -1/4 plus +10 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, Incantation (throughout): -1/2, 2x Endurance: -1/2. So with 20 strength the character can easily force someone to walk. With the additional +10 strength he can force almost force Wonder Woman to walk but she's winning the strength versus strength to break out. With the full 40 strength he is winning over Wonder Woman but exhausting himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms Without having the benefit of being able to watch it for subtle nuances, I'd have to say it was one Mind Control. That Mind Control told her essentially to move only as he directed. The rest of it was just his giving those directions (which are not further Mind Controls--they are merely the directions the original told her to obey). As for her resisting it, I'd say she was just making dramatic Ego rolls (hey, you can push Strength with Ego too, right?). MAYBE it was even a Mind Control with "AVLD: Str instead of Ego" (I know MD rather than Ego is REALLY the defense for Mind Control, but I think it works). When she "partially" resisted his control, it was either an Ego roll that came close, or a success followed by his re-establishing the Mind Control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms While I agree that the real answer is probably "crap TV", I'd handle this as plain old Mind Control vs STR with the SFX "Telekinetic". However, there is an interesting way to build TK that will do; Buy Martial Arts for your TK, including the Push and Grab maneuvers, and maybe a Push-Grab custom maneuver. Use the rules for controlling someone you've grabbed to march them around; the verbal bit is just him babling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSword Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms I go with TK. If he had Mind Control of WW they would have gone straight to commercial once he got command of her. Once they returned from commercial they would have had a placed advertisement for Lucky Strikes and then gone on with the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms You could build TK man as the following: 20 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, 0 Endurance: +1/2 plus +10 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, Incantation: -1/4 plus +10 Strength Telekinesis, Invisible to sight: +1/2, Incantation (throughout): -1/2, 2x Endurance: -1/2. So with 20 strength the character can easily force someone to walk. With the additional +10 strength he can force almost force Wonder Woman to walk but she's winning the strength versus strength to break out. With the full 40 strength he is winning over Wonder Woman but exhausting himself. I won't agrue values, because I have no idea what WW's STR would be given the difference between the show and the comic, but instead of an Incantation Throughout TK with x2 END... I was thinking he was just Pushing that last bit to get her to move (which would perfectly match my house rules for Pushing; if you Push by more than 10, you have to make an EGO Roll, and even if that roll is made, the Power is Drained by the amount Pushed once your done, if it's a Focus, the Focus could break). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms I go with TK. If he had Mind Control of WW they would have gone straight to commercial once he got command of her. Once they returned from commercial they would have had a placed advertisement for Lucky Strikes and then gone on with the show. Ah! Good point. I forgot about the Commercial Effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Challenge: Explain this scene in HERO Terms This exact situation was covered in the 4th edition version of The Ultimate Mentalist in the section discussing TK. They had a paragraph on using TK to "Puppeteer" targets. I think it was simply a STR vs STR contest from phase to phase. If the Teke won the contest, the "puppet" would move the way the Teke wanted. I'd think you would get them to move 1" or 2" per pt of body the Teke beat the target's STR roll by. Pretty simple really. I would allow the "puppet" to push their STR to try and resist. Especially if they are being forced to do something against their Psych lims (as in kill a comrade etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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