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What do you do onboard a starship?


McCoy

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Nothing to do with role playing, just want to get people's opinion.

 

Imagine a STL multigeneration ship. One thousand humans will start out from Earth, their descendants will reach another star system in a century. Population will increase to 25,000 during the trip. Ship can support 50,000 safely and comfortably. It is possible arriving at the new star system they will discover a planet with a breathable atmosphere. It is possible they will discover no usable resources (in which case they will use a gravity slingshot around the star to head to a different system. It is most likely they will find an Oort Cloud, and asteroid belt, and planets that can be terraformed in 100 to 1000 years. Communications will be maintained with Earth, and through Earth any sister ships, but speed of light lag insures these will be monologues rather than conversations.

 

Let us now assume that of the original 1000, 10% are needed to run the machinery (engines, navigation, communication, etc), and another 10% work in life support (air, water, sewage recycling, food production & preparation).

 

What is the job of the other initial 800? What specialities would you want to be sure to include?

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

It'll be like any advanced society. As more and more necessities can be provided by fewer and fewer people, the availability of luxuries increase. So most people will be involved in creating entertainments and leisure time services, whether it's creating games, films or novels; running gyms, massage palours or brothels. Realistically with that many people, you'll actually have a much larger crew contingent who only work (say) 2 days per week, with the current 5-2 weekday/weekend split reversed.

 

Potentially, in a world where technology has reached the levels where nearly anything is possible, and where there is sufficient power to keep all this technology running full-time, you create a hedonistic leisure society. See Iain M. Banks Culture novels for one possible example. There, some people have jobs purely as something to do!

 

However, if you have this enormous leisure population, I wouldnt rate their chances of survival once they come to settle on another planet. Better to find things to do to keep them active the whole time, or their post-landing life expectancy will be pretty poor!

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Study, for one. You'd need a lot of teachers if you're planning on having a lot of kids. In fact, how many of the initial 1000 will be children? It would make sense to have a lotta kids - get the later generations started faster.

 

Meet&greets. You want the population to increase, you need couples to form. If you don't want to have arranged birthings, then you need the singles bars and the like.

 

Manufacturing - how is this handled? Is it all automated, or do you need people pumping out things like cutlery? Are there people involved in crafts such as sewing/knitting/tailoring? Interior decoration? Or is that counted in the 200 essential crew?

 

Law enforcement - how stringent are security regulations? What laws operate on the ship? Is there a police/security/military contingent? Neighbourhood watch? I can see some need for armed guards on certain vital systems, in the event of cabin fever going rampant 3-12 months in.

 

Speaking of that, SHRINKS. Lots of them. Oodles of head-shrinkers, psychiatrists and psychologists and doctors with counselling diplomas alike. (Diplomae?) These people are being taken from their ordinary lives and bottled up in a tin can that could explode AT ANY TIME. And they'll be there for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. Psych tests can only sort out so many of the ones prone to psychotic breaks/cabin fever.

 

Just plain doctors. Unless there are real good air filters, a simple cold will infect the whole ship. You'd especially need pediatricians to ensure that the next generation grow up safely.

 

I'm sure there are others, that's just what comes from the top of my head (like dandruff).

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

If your ship's population goes from 1000 to 25,000 in 100 years, that means it is doubling every 21.5 years, about. To make the later math easier, and the numbers rounder, lets assume that is a 20 year doubling.

 

At any given time, the population of your ship can be broken down into 4 cohorts. The age ranges are approximate, of course.

 

_0 to 20 = Children ©

21 to 40 = Breeders (B)

41 to 60 = Adults (A)

61 to 80 = Elders (E)

 

(work is over... will complete later)

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

It'll be like any advanced society. As more and more necessities can be provided by fewer and fewer people' date=' the availability of luxuries increase. So most people will be involved in creating entertainments and leisure time services, whether it's creating games, films or novels; running gyms, massage palours or brothels. Realistically with that many people, you'll actually have a much larger crew contingent who only work (say) 2 days per week, with the current 5-2 weekday/weekend split reversed.[/quote']

Hadn't thought about brothels. But prostitution does show up in every human society, best to plan for it.

 

Study' date=' for one. You'd need a lot of teachers if you're planning on having a lot of kids. In fact, how many of the initial 1000 will be children? It would make sense to have a lotta kids - get the later generations started faster.[/quote']

Humm, had assumed the original 1000 would all be adults. Brining in colonist's children would cut down on genetic variability, easily solved by a gamate bank. Would a 20+ year gap between the youngest of the P generation and the oldest of the F1 generation be a problem?

 

Meet&greets. You want the population to increase' date=' you need couples to form. If you don't want to have arranged birthings, then you need the singles bars and the like.[/quote']

Probably not needed in the P generation, 1000 people isn't that many, everybody will probably know everyone else. The Meet&Greets will probably be more necessary in the F2 and subsequent generations. But parties, dances, and other social situations are a good idea from a mental health viewpoint.

 

Manufacturing - how is this handled? Is it all automated' date=' or do you need people pumping out things like cutlery? Are there people involved in crafts such as sewing/knitting/tailoring? Interior decoration? Or is that counted in the 200 essential crew?[/quote']

I'm presuming largely automated, but there probably would be a demand for unique, one-of-a- kind handmade items. Hadn't thought about interior decorating, but a very good idea.

 

Law enforcement - how stringent are security regulations? What laws operate on the ship? Is there a police/security/military contingent? Neighbourhood watch? I can see some need for armed guards on certain vital systems' date=' in the event of cabin fever going rampant 3-12 months in.[/quote']

Assuming less than 2% in security. P generation, everybody knows everyone else, and there's no place to run. For the first 10 to 12 years there will be some "bar fights" and such, but don't anticipate much work for security until the F1 generation enters the rebelious teen years.

 

Yes, all vital systems would be "authorized personel only," protected by palm locks or simular. Not totally bulletproof, but will slow down an irrational person long enough for the small security force to react.

 

Speaking of that' date=' SHRINKS. Lots of them. Oodles of head-shrinkers, psychiatrists and psychologists and doctors with counselling diplomas alike. (Diplomae?) These people are being taken from their ordinary lives and bottled up in a tin can that could explode AT ANY TIME. And they'll be there for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. Psych tests can only sort out so many of the ones prone to psychotic breaks/cabin fever.[/quote']

Agreed.

 

Just plain doctors. Unless there are real good air filters' date=' a simple cold will infect the whole ship. You'd especially need pediatricians to ensure that the next generation grow up safely.[/quote']

Wll cover that one later.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

I would expect ALOT of PS 2(000?) game playing....

 

It really depends on the key foci of the mission. Chances are each person will be highly skilled in an advanced technology or skill to insure a variety of real life capability. Even if they are bored, you definately will want security. They could be multitasking with more important things at the start but then focused as the population grows. These are humans, after all.

 

I would start with several generation of people. If you have a new cycle of people every 20 years, you should plan on several generations brought in (depending on how old the oldest group is) to have that cycle going from the start. A gene bank, I think is a 100% need to insure the variety of people and to help with unforseen low birth rates while not giving up any diversity. As far as genetic variety due to children, that is not an issue because no one says that they have to be *their* children. They could be test tubies.

 

There should be a really huge luxury segment to help with the psychological aspect of the journey, definately. It is doubtful that everyone will be a workaholic and with so much automation, there will be alot of boredom.

 

For me, from a planning perspective (not gameplay), I would probably only have 200% of the needed people around at any point. Maintain a population of 400-500 for the entire journey. Once you get close, start the test tube babies and gear for a huge population explosion. You can likelt grow the 25,000 population well into your journey and not have just a standard growth progression.

A key reason would be to reduce the resource consumption. There is nothing saying that you cannot find a planet and then stay in orbit til the population grows. In addition, it reduces the risk of not finding a planet before your onboard resources deplete. It would suck travelling 1000 years only to run out of tacos...

 

If the ship can stay in communication with earth, then you do not even need to worry about technological advances; they can all still be done at earth and shared so research and that type of expertise will really not be needed.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

First off, I've got a few concerns about the population increasing to 25,000 from 1,000 in just 100 years. If the original crew is split 50/50, and every female crewman gives birth to one baby a year (in other words, are almost constantly pregnant) then it will take 20 years to get to a population of 11,000. (I'm going to assume that for cultural reasons, the newly-born "crewmembers" won't be permitted to begin having kids of their own until they're 20.)

 

Now for the next 20 years (assuming a 50/50 split amongst the new births) you've got 250 new mothers becoming available every year. Of course this will increase the number of new children -- if we keep going at the same rate of one per year per mother, but that leads to another problem: child control.

 

By the end of 40 years, the children vastly outnumber the adults. How are you going to care for / control them all? In addition, with the adult-to-child ratio, my guess is these new children are not going to get much personal one-on-one attention from an adult, let alone their own parents. This is going to lead to mass improper socialization, and all kinds of nasty psychological problems and antisocial behaviors. At the very least, gangs are going to form and take over or disrupt various ship functions; I imagine, though, that gangs won't the be worst. You'll have thousands and thousands of maladjusted people running around...not good for the success of the mission.

 

Now assume you slow it down so it's, oh, say one child every 5 years. This will give a lot more time for one-on-one socialization from the parents, and will most likely result in much better adjusted people. Let's also assume that the original 1,000 crew are all 20 years old, that it's split 50/50 between males and females, that a socially-acceptable age to start having children is 20 years old and that a woman can bear children up until the time she's 60. I'm also going to assume no deaths for any reason, though that's highly unlikely.

 

At the end of 91 years, you've got a total population of 55,125. (Yes, I know you said the ship can support a population of 50,000 safely so this is a bit over that. Remember though that 55,125 is arrived at by assuming perfect conditions -- exactly equal number of male and female births, every woman having one child every 5 years, and so on.)

 

55,125 Total Population

 

24,562 Age 0-15 (children)

 

09,812 Age 16-25 (young adult)

 

15,500 Age 25-60 ("working" adult)

 

05,250 Age 60+ (older adult / elders)

 

You're near the end of your flight, you're right at ship's maximum population, and almost half the crew are children under 15 years of age. Would you want to try and colonize a new world under those circumstances? The odds don't look good to me.

 

Unless you take some very well-thought-out and downright draconian measures, your population is almost always going to be about 50% children less than 15 years old. And those children are going to take a lot of looking-after, so I suspect a great many of the adults will be "tied up" doing that.

 

Edit: Found a mistake in my calculations. At the end of 81 years, here's the breakdown:

 

49,780 Total Pop

 

22,968 Age 0-15 (children)

 

09,312 Age 16-25 (young adults)

 

13,750 Age 25-60 ("working" adults)

 

03,750 Age 60+ (older adults / elders)

 

Now, at this point, if they stopped having babies, the youngest of the crew would be 20 years old when they reached their destination. That's about right, I think; the bulk of the crew would be young, vigorous, and ready to go. It also gives them 5 years or so to get a colony going and viable before they start worrying about having children of their own, which will still leave them 35 years of child-bearing time.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

As to your questions about what people would do:

 

Well, a lot of it would be child rearing/socialization. For example, in the first 20 years you're going to get 2,000 children and there are 1,000 adults. This is 4 children per family (assuming the usual one man / one woman set-up for socialization purposes; of course other possibilities are there).

 

Second, caring for the ship. This is just a hunch, mind you, but I'd bet a lot of the ship would be designed to be cared for and run manually, even if the technology existed to make it nearly automatic. Why? (1) Give people something to do -- and if automatics are not an option for the crew once they're under way, it's not a question of choosing to do the work just because you're bored, but it'll have to be done. (2) Making the crew have to take care of the ship manually will keep technical skills sharp and in practice...they'd likely otherwise atrophy over the century of the voyage. Plus it gives something to train the older children (age 15 - 20) on, which not only prepares them for the future but helps keep them occupied. (Idle hands and all that.) (3) Often times a trained human operation can detect when something is amiss before the built-in detectors notice it. Call it what you will, but an experienced operator can often "feel" when something "isn't right", even if the indicators say everything's fine for now.

 

That's not saying there shouldn't be emergancy backups available that are automatic, in case of a catastrophic situation in which human reaction time would be too slow, or perhaps a large portion of the crew might wind up incapacitated (illness, etc.) -- there should be. But you really need to give people something to do, so my bet is there will be a lot more manual stuff than is strictly necessary.

 

They can also do basic research. Why not? If contact with Earth is kept during the voyage, they can send and recieve information. Presumably the people chosen to go on this voyage will be at the top of their fields. Why shouldn't they do scientific research while underway? It's quite reasonable they may make breakthroughs the same as anyone on Earth...plus, in a more rigidly-controlled environment and society, it could easily be argued that they'd have fewer distractions than they would on Earth, and so their productivity may actually go up.

 

Scientific observation: Even a few light-years can make a huge difference in what instruments (both telescopes and others) are able to resolve. Why not send along some of the best instrumentation available (and of course see to it that the experts to run it are in the crew) and take advantage of the situation? If nothing else, for "baseline" observations. (Some types of observation require large "baselines" -- observations taken at two widely seperated points. Think of the baseline you could have by using the endpoints of an interstellar voyage!)

 

Others have already mentioned recreational and artistic approaches, so I don't see a need to cover the same ground all over again. :)

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

For me' date=' from a planning perspective (not gameplay), I would probably only have 200% of the needed people around at any point. Maintain a population of 400-500 for the entire journey. Once you get close, start the test tube babies and gear for a huge population explosion. You can likelt grow the 25,000 population well into your journey and not have just a standard growth progression.[/quote']

Getting the children born isn't the challenge, getting them raised is. Dr. Anomaly raises some concerns about doubling the population every 20 years, going from 500 to 25,000 in two generations? Who raises the children?

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Getting the children born isn't the challenge' date=' getting them raised is. Dr. Anomaly raises some concerns about doubling the population every 20 years, going from 500 to 25,000 in two generations? Who raises the children?[/quote']

Well, using the revised figures with every woman of childbearing age having one child every 5 years, you only reach 25k (well, 26,812) after 66 years. Even so, the children so outnumber the adults that I think raising them all -- with proper socialization -- would be a problem.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

Now assume you slow it down so it's' date=' oh, say one child every 5 years. This will give a [i']lot[/i] more time for one-on-one socialization from the parents, and will most likely result in much better adjusted people. Let's also assume that the original 1,000 crew are all 20 years old, that it's split 50/50 between males and females, that a socially-acceptable age to start having children is 20 years old and that a woman can bear children up until the time she's 60.

Actually 4 children per woman, 5 years apart, equal male/female was my assumption. That's an average of a child a week added to the crew until the F1 generation starts making their contribution.

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Getting the children born isn't the challenge' date=' getting them raised is. Dr. Anomaly raises some concerns about doubling the population every 20 years, going from 500 to 25,000 in two generations? Who raises the children?[/quote']

Think of the Children!

 

Just mentioning I found "The Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume IIA" at a thrift store. Amongst such gems as "Who Goes There?" and "Call me Joe" is a short by Heinlein called "Universe" published in 1941.

 

Not sure if it will help, but it's set on a generation ship.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

Think of the Children!

 

Just mentioning I found "The Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume IIA" at a thrift store. Amongst such gems as "Who Goes There?" and "Call me Joe" is a short by Heinlein called "Universe" published in 1941.

 

Not sure if it will help, but it's set on a generation ship.

As is the sequal, "Common Sense." The two were published together in paperback as Orphans of the Sky. This is one of many classic novels that assumes that a STL ship would not be able to stay in radio contact with Earth. That assumption always bothered me. So maybe before lasers it was hard to imagine making a radio signal strong and directional enough to be detected by a ship a light year's distance. But considering how sensitive radio telescopes are, at the right frequency a 1000 watt transmitter could be easily received at 4 light years.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

The two were published together in paperback as Orphans of the Sky.

"Bobo tired, boss."

 

:(

 

I remember that. I thought at the time, though, it was a bit silly all the information was recorded in books, instead of being available via computer records. Or am I misremembering? I seem to recall the finding of some kind of log entry talking about one of the officers finding someone feeding the last pages of some kind of technical reference manual into the matter convertor...

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

"Bobo tired, boss."

 

:(

 

I remember that. I thought at the time, though, it was a bit silly all the information was recorded in books, instead of being available via computer records. Or am I misremembering? I seem to recall the finding of some kind of log entry talking about one of the officers finding someone feeding the last pages of some kind of technical reference manual into the matter convertor...

Yep, that's the one. In all fairness, remember these stories were written in 1941.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

"Bobo tired, boss."

 

:(

 

I remember that. I thought at the time, though, it was a bit silly all the information was recorded in books, instead of being available via computer records. Or am I misremembering? I seem to recall the finding of some kind of log entry talking about one of the officers finding someone feeding the last pages of some kind of technical reference manual into the matter convertor...

Seemed that way, but more was passed down via the Witness it seemed.

 

Old Sci-Fi is fun in that way. Though maybe everything was on CD and bit rot got it? :D

 

I should go off to the book review thread. "Nerves" was even better.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

That is one of the big questions about the STL generation ship. What tech level is the ship, and whether it's a reasonable extrapolation of modern technology or its more retro-tech in feel, when computers were big and men still used slide rules to do calculations.

 

As for having kids aboard the ship, remember that genetic diversity is very important aboard your ship. The gene pool of the colony is going to be fixed by the gene pool that is aboard the ship. To some extent, you want to have as much genetic diversity up front as possible and you want to maintain that diversity over the course of the voyage.

 

From that viewpoint, you want to have as many people up front as possible and keep strict track of geneological records (not to mention genetic scans of individuals) to make sure that genetic diversity is maintained. And for that matter, you'd probably want to have a huge rack of frozen embryos somewhere for when you reach your destination to refresh the gene pool there.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

As for having kids aboard the ship, remember that genetic diversity is very important aboard your ship. The gene pool of the colony is going to be fixed by the gene pool that is aboard the ship. To some extent, you want to have as much genetic diversity up front as possible and you want to maintain that diversity over the course of the voyage.

 

From that viewpoint, you want to have as many people up front as possible and keep strict track of geneological records (not to mention genetic scans of individuals) to make sure that genetic diversity is maintained. And for that matter, you'd probably want to have a huge rack of frozen embryos somewhere for when you reach your destination to refresh the gene pool there.

Of course. I was thinking (but forgot to add) that the woman having one child every 5 years wasn't necessarily having that child via the same "father" who is her partner for purposes of raising children in a family setting for proper socialization. One of them may be, but the others most likely wouldn't be.

 

I managed to leave that bit out completely. :stupid:

 

Thanks for reminding me, MfH. :)

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

There was a (very) old episode of Dr. Who set on a generation ship. There were all the standard ship-board roles to fill, and everyone else was working on an enormous 1000 ft statue of pure marble. Hand tools only. They started at the bottom and were working up. The plan was that when they arrived at their destination the statue would just be finished and would be transported to the site of the new capital.

 

This being Dr. Who, aliens eventually enslaved everyone and the statue ended up with a cyclops eyed tentacle head before the Doctor put everything right.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

Getting the children born isn't the challenge' date=' getting them raised is. Dr. Anomaly raises some concerns about doubling the population every 20 years, going from 500 to 25,000 in two generations? Who raises the children?[/quote']

 

The evil robot overlords who take over, of course...

 

Most people can take care of more than 1 or 2 children. If the working percentages quoted are normal work days, then it is no different from the current day, and that is just for the working part of the crew. With the operational needs for the ship, these poeple will have far more time to watch and mentor children than we do. You could have people dedicated to raising children, maybe 4-6 at a time, certainly at least more than 1 at a time. Some could be natural offspring while others can be test tubes (which would also insure a good genetic mix in the society). I could even see, if this is an advanced enough society, growing the child until ready for birth in a chamber, thus not effectively incapacitating the mother during the 'pregnant' time.

Given that the ship will have limited resources, it seems best to perform the population growth as late into the trip as possible, only when you can be assured of a planet to use if possible. If there is a concern about the # children once you arrive, you could even do a surge and then level it back off so you have alot of 20s with a single child, even.

It is far too early in the morning for me to do the math for it, though...

 

-hm

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The evil robot overlords who take over, of course...

 

Most people can take care of more than 1 or 2 children. If the working percentages quoted are normal work days, then it is no different from the current day, and that is just for the working part of the crew. With the operational needs for the ship, these poeple will have far more time to watch and mentor children than we do. You could have people dedicated to raising children, maybe 4-6 at a time, certainly at least more than 1 at a time. Some could be natural offspring while others can be test tubes (which would also insure a good genetic mix in the society). I could even see, if this is an advanced enough society, growing the child until ready for birth in a chamber, thus not effectively incapacitating the mother during the 'pregnant' time.

Given that the ship will have limited resources, it seems best to perform the population growth as late into the trip as possible, only when you can be assured of a planet to use if possible. If there is a concern about the # children once you arrive, you could even do a surge and then level it back off so you have alot of 20s with a single child, even.

It is far too early in the morning for me to do the math for it, though...

 

-hm

There is of course no data to support this yet, so I'm just talking through my hat here...

 

The "iron womb" bit has been postulated in various SF stories to cause the people "birthed" that way to tend to be maladjusted because they didn't have the warmth, sounds, and motions of a mother's body around them as they were developing those first nine months. I have no idea if it would work out that way or not, but it seems (to me) to be a valid concern/possibility.

 

As for the population thing...

 

If you use my 2nd set of figures (the corrected ones for every woman of childbearing years having one child every 5 years) then by year 81 of the voyage, the ship's population hits 49k (assuming no deaths at all in the 81 years). If you stopped having kids at that point, then the youngest part of the population (also the largest single number of people on the ship) would be 20-21 years old when you reached your destination.

 

I wouldn't want a ship population that consisted of 50% children (age 15 and under) when I got to a new, unknown world I was going to try and colonize. I would want the majority of them to be young, fresh, vigorous people in their early 20s, presumably trained with all the skills and information old Earth had to offer for this undertaking. They'd have 5 or 10 years (if they needed them) to get the colony established and going without the complication of children underfoot, and still have 30-35 years of childbearing time left to them after that initial period.

 

To me, that sounds like the best way to go.

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The "iron womb" bit has been postulated in various SF stories to cause the people "birthed" that way to tend to be maladjusted because they didn't have the warmth, sounds, and motions of a mother's body around them as they were developing those first nine months. I have no idea if it would work out that way or not, but it seems (to me) to be a valid concern/possibility.

Oh, there are things that are much worse.

 

In Sir Arthur C. Clarke's THE SONG OF DISTANT EARTH, the stars are colonized by "seedships". These are slower-than-light starships carrying a semi-sentient computer, remote control drones, frozen human sperm and ova, iron wombs, and supplies. No living humans on board, or at the colony site.(this was because the technology was not up to the task of producing manned starships, and there were urgent reasons to colonize the stars ASAP)

 

So the starship arrives, the computer lands, warms up some sperm and ova, uses the iron wombs to bring the babies to term and then uses the drones to raise the babies to adulthood. And quietly disposes of any that have suffered too much interstellar radiation to be viable.

 

In other words, the colony is composed of human beings raised by robots.

 

I leave you to decide how maladjusted or inhuman such people would be.

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Re: What do you do onboard a starship?

 

Construction/manufacturing.

 

Leave a good bit of the ship's interior unfinished, and not enough finished stuff for the full future population. As the journey progresses/population grows/needs increase, add in new rooms, etc. Supply the ship with scads of raw materials and the tools to make more advanced tools as needed. Provide plans for making the various things, and suggested final ship layout.

 

Gives a significant number something to do, and keeps skills sharp - when finally arrive and need to build colony, will have a good number of folks with the practical knowledge of putting up walls, wiring, etc. Plus, able to adjust en route in the face of unforseen circumstances (and there are always some).

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