Character for review: Last Hero

[David Blue]

Hi.

 

I invite criticism not only of details but concepts and character design philosophy. Last Hero is built pretty much as the concentrated essence of what I like to play, so basic character design defects are likely to be repeated in one form or another in all my characters unless I see them.

 

And, I suppose, even if I do see them: Very Common; Strong.

 

LAST HERO (Kill ha T'Sing, alien warrior and professional dancer, 250pts version)

Player: David Blue

 

Value Characteristic (Cost)

50 STR (40) 20 DEX (30) 30 CON (40) 15 BODY (10) 13 INT (3) 11 EGO (2) 20 PRE (10) 22 COM (6) 10/20 PD (0) 10/20 ED (4) 4 SPD (10) 16 REC (0) 60 END (0) 55 STUN (0) 12" RUN (0) 5" SWIM (0) 10" LEAP (0) Characteristics Cost: 155

 

Power (Value) END (Cost)

Deceptively Tough, Superficial Damage Only, Heals Perfectly: Armour (10 PD/10 ED) 0 (30) Amazing Leaps: Leaping 0" (10" forward, 5" upward) (Accurate, x4 Noncombat) 1 (10) 12ft Tall, Takes Big Steps Fast: Running (6") 2 (12) Swims Like A Whale: Swimming (3") 1 (3) 12ft Tall, Long Limbs: Stretching (1") (5 Active Points) -1/4 no non-combat stretching, cannot push stretching, -0 does not do area effect movethroughs 1 (4) Weighs 800kg: Knockback Resistance (-3") 0 (6) Powers Cost: 65

 

Skill (Active Points) Roll (Cost)

+1 with HTH Combat (5) Climbing 13- (3) English: completely fluent with Korbenite alien accent (3) Paramedics: ambulance course 12- (3) Teamwork 13- (3) PS: Dancing (DEX-based) 13- (3) Scholar (3) 1) KS: Korbenite culture and history (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 12- (2) 2) KS: American culture and history (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 12- (2) 3) KS: Military Science (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 12- (2) Weapon Familiarity: Korbenite Blaster/Submachinegun (1) Skills Cost: 30

 

Total Character Cost: 250

 

Disadvantages (100+Bonuses)

Dependent NPC: Girl/Boy Live-in Friend(s) 8- (Normal) (+10)

Dependent NPC: Co-Workers/dancers 8- (Normal) (+10)

Hunted: Hideous 8- (As Powerful; Harshly Punish, Public Identity) (+15)

Hunted: Leech 8- (As Powerful; Harshly Punish, Public Identity) (+15)

Hunted: Fox 11- (As Powerful; Mildly Punish: steal the last royal Korbenite egg, Public Identity) (+15)

Physical Limitation: 12ft tall, 800kg, -2 DCV=DCV 5, +2 to others' PER rolls vs. Last Hero, needs special clothes, facilities, special vehicles, special living quarters and tools, normal life is impossible (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing) (+5)

Psychological Limitation: Must protect the last royal egg of the Korben race, Pak Protector-like intensity on this (Common; Total) (+20)

Psychological Limitation: Combative, seeks violence, (warrior/heroic/noble, not bullying) preferably brick to brick combat one on one (Common; Moderate) (+10)

Psychological Limitation: Explorer, likes to travel, investigate, and meet people: space, underwater, other dimensions, risk no bar (Common; Moderate) (+10)

Psychological Limitation: Treasures all life, even the lives of his enemies, will actively strive to rescue them if they don't have to be killed (Uncommon; Moderate) (+5)

Social Limitation: Public ID, famous superhero dancer, counted on by many and committed ("The Show Must Go On!") (Frequently; Major) (+15)

Unluck 2d6 (+10)

Vulnerability to Gravity Attacks (Uncommon; 2xSTUN) (+10)

[David Blue]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

In 6th Edition. Last Hero's characteristics appear to cost 203pts, not 155.

 

Last Hero is as honest and plain Jane as a brick can be. He's not screwing freebies out of the system at all. If he's worse off it can't be because he's lost anything he shouldn't have had in the first place. It has to be because the game system is out to get him now.

 

This character class is nerfed.

 

I don't like to minimax, or Last Hero wouldn't be my idea of a good character in the first place.

 

But I think it's best to play a character in a game system that's hospitable, not hostile to it.

 

I won't make a 6th Edition brick. Energy projectors are better now. Or psionics, because that seems to be a privileged class.

[RockSunner]

6E is the death of the Brick

 

My calculations support you.

 

In the old system, +10 STR bought +2 REC, +5 STUN, +2 PD.

+10 CON bought +2 ED, +2 REC, +5 STUN, +20 END.

The net value of +10 STR (cost 10) was 21.

The net value of +10 CON (cost 20) was 41.

 

Under the new system, with the new cost for the lost adds, you lose -6.5 points per 10 STR,

-10.5 points per 10 CON.

 

Converting your character with +40 STR and +20 CON incurs a loss of 47 points.

[JmOz]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

In 6th Edition. Last Hero's characteristics appear to cost 203pts, not 155.

 

Last Hero is as honest and plain Jane as a brick can be. He's not screwing freebies out of the system at all. If he's worse off it can't be because he's lost anything he shouldn't have had in the first place. It has to be because the game system is out to get him now.

 

This character class is nerfed.

 

I don't like to minimax, or Last Hero wouldn't be my idea of a good character in the first place.

 

But I think it's best to play a character in a game system that's hospitable, not hostile to it.

 

I won't make a 6th Edition brick. Energy projectors are better now. Or psionics, because that seems to be a privileged class.

 

So was this character from 4th or 5th? not that it matters much. Let us assume that it is 5th edition, as a 250, point character you are a "low powered hero". In 6th low powered has 300 points instead of 250. 203-155=48 points, so you are actualy 2 points ahead and need only 50 points in complications instead of 150 (I suspect that it is a 4th edition charactrer because of the drawbacks, in which case it would be a standard character and now be 400 points instead of 350 in 5th or 250 in 4th. So a extra 100 on top of the 50 so you have 102 to buff up with. I would not say that Last hero has been hurt much if any. Also my basic EBer took a bigger hit (He was EC based)

[David Blue]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

So was this character from 4th or 5th? not that it matters much.

Last Hero was originally made in 4th Edition, and converted to 5th Edition and checked with Hero Maker 2.02. As you say, the difference is unimportant. The cost and effectiveness of a basic, reasonable, non-munchkin brick didn't change.

 

It's changed now though, big time. Last Hero should have been called Last Brick, as far as I'm concerned.

[RockSunner]

The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

You are right. Adding 50 points to the character's base is no compensation at all for the loss of brick effectiveness. A brick pays 50 points to stay in the same place. An MP-based Energy Projector gets an extra 50 points to do something new and wonderful with. Guess who loses the evolutionary race? The Brick is now the dinosaur of the 6th edition Hero rules.

[Certified]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

You are right. Adding 50 points to the character's base is no compensation at all for the loss of brick effectiveness. A brick pays 50 points to stay in the same place. An MP-based Energy Projector gets an extra 50 points to do something new and wonderful with. Guess who loses the evolutionary race? The Brick is now the dinosaur of the 6th edition Hero rules.

 

I think this may be overstating a perceived problem and not so much a real one. Bricks, especially well designed bricks seemed far more efficient than almost any other type of character. By focusing on their strengths they received bonuses to all their secondary abilities where other character types effectively lived in a vacuum. One can argue that things like Elemental Controls and other Frameworks worked to off set this cost discrepancy however, there was nothing preventing Bricks from buying stats in the same fashion. It looks more like they evened the playing field than sent the old model to the scrapyard, especially considering the starting point values seem to have been adjusted.

[JmOz]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

You are right. Adding 50 points to the character's base is no compensation at all for the loss of brick effectiveness. A brick pays 50 points to stay in the same place. An MP-based Energy Projector gets an extra 50 points to do something new and wonderful with. Guess who loses the evolutionary race? The Brick is now the dinosaur of the 6th edition Hero rules.

 

Except bricks traditionaly had less OCV/DCV, that blaster boy will have to pay for, and IME most blasters were EC/MP hybrids, and the EC is based character is more expensive

[assault]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

The main difference from what I've seen is that virtually all characters have to spend lots of extra points on CV. The extra 50 or so starting points doesn't last long, no matter what the character is.

 

I'll concede that mentalists have probably gained though.

[RockSunner]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

In theory, a Unified Power group is cheaper than an EC. Consider the hypothetical "perfect" EC, with a base cost of A and three powers without limitations with active points of A/2 apiece. That costs 2.5A.

 

Now do the same three powers as a Unified power group. We have 3A/1.25 = 2.4A < 2.5A.

 

As the number of powers in the EC increases, the situation gets worse:

4 powers: 3.2A > 3A

5 powers: 4A > 3.5A

 

This may be canceled out by the reduced need to make everything fit under a cap. So far, the EC's I have converted have been cheaper.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

Anyone have any theories on why Unified Power is its brand of framework instead of simply stamping those rules onto EC?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

Being a Limitation instead of a framework allows Unified Power to be applied to Multipowers and VPP's (something not possible with EC's).

[David Blue]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

I think this may be overstating a perceived problem and not so much a real one. Bricks' date=' especially well designed bricks seemed far more efficient than almost any other type of character. By focusing on their strengths they received bonuses to all their secondary abilities where other character types effectively lived in a vacuum.[/quote']

 

The game has changed to the detriment of characters like Last Hero. If that is what you want, because you always thought they were terribly over-powered before, you may be happy. That does not mean that characters like these have not been nerfed.

 

One can argue that things like Elemental Controls and other Frameworks worked to off set this cost discrepancy however' date=' there was nothing preventing Bricks from buying stats in the same fashion.[/quote']

 

Except the rules. Straightforward, "good citizen" bricks like Last Hero were never built with their stats bought through Elemental Controls.

 

It looks more like they evened the playing field than sent the old model to the scrapyard' date=' especially considering the starting point values seem to have been adjusted.[/quote']

 

Giving more points to everybody does nothing to remedy the harm done to characters like Last Hero.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

...

Giving more points to everybody does nothing to remedy the harm done to characters like Last Hero.

 

... vs. evening the playing field is a half glass empty vs. full argument.

 

Last Hero is a very very efficient build.

Just shifting 10-15 points of skills into Martial Arts or a 2-3d6 HA makes him competitive vs many 350 point characters!

[assault]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

I suspect the biggest nerfing victims are the high CV ones - speedsters and high end martial artists. If most characters have to spend 40-50 of their extra 50 points on CV, a character with 10 OCV and 10 DCV will have to spend 70 - effectively losing points! It only gets worse as their CVs increase.

 

It doesn't bother me much - I changed from characteristic based speedsters to power based ones years ago - but if you want to build characters whose main defence is not getting hit, you're in a spot of bother.

 

Frankly, Last Hero is fine.

 

EDIT: On the other hand, I don't mind if Bricks get a reputation for being unviable. It just means there are more team brick slots open for committed brick players like myself.

 

I suppose I should write up a 250/300 point brick myself. I've mainly been working with "light" bricks lately. Maybe it's time to go with someone with a bit more oomph.

 

EDIT2: I've just realised that what I referred to as '"light" bricks' above were actually inexperienced/teen versions of very, very "heavy" bricks. Like the 1958 version of Supergirl. The thing with her was that she wasn't a combatant. She couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag - except that she was Kryptonian. Mary Marvel was a bit the same way.

 

I need to build a slugger, who isn't mainly useful for romance and "mystery" scenarios. That means a focussed, combat oriented power set. Unfortunately, I haven't built one of those for a while. My signature character was a perfect example of one - but that was 20+ years ago.

 

So I kind of want a 100 point heroic character with superpowers and the characteristics to support them. Tricky. A pulp character, with extra stuff. Probably ex-military - that's always a good excuse for odd skills. Time to break out my copy of Pulp Hero.

[Certified]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

Bricks by their nature were the most point efficient build. Bricks relied on core characteristics that few into important figured characteristics as RockSunner pointed out you got a lot more out than what you put in. Now you simply have to buy everything for the character that is important, the catch here is so does everybody else. I'm just not seeing this as a nerf.

[assault]

Re: Character for review: Last Hero

 

I've already pointed out that bricks aren't the most seriously affected by the rules changes.

 

Try to build a speedster on "previous starting points +50".

[RockSunner]

Revised calculations

 

My calculations for CON were not correct. The loss of 10.5 points for +10 points of CON is nearly offset by the new reduced cost. It's really only a loss of .5 points per +10 CON.

 

The DEX and CV purchases make up most of the loss, not the CON. You lose about 3 points per DEX purchased when converting.

[Ranxerox]

Re: The Brick is now a dinosaur

 

The game has changed to the detriment of characters like Last Hero. If that is what you want, because you always thought they were terribly over-powered before, you may be happy. That does not mean that characters like these have not been nerfed.

 

 

 

Except the rules. Straightforward, "good citizen" bricks like Last Hero were never built with their stats bought through Elemental Controls.

 

 

 

Giving more points to everybody does nothing to remedy the harm done to characters like Last Hero.

 

If Last Hero can do everything under 6th Ed that he could do under 5th, he has not been nerfed. Giving a boost to EBs and mentalist (I don't own 6E and don't know if this has occurred) is not the same as nerfing bricks. A character type is nerfed when at the end of the day they have less power than they use to have. Sorry, if EBs and mentalist got some nice presents and bricks and MAs missed out, but that is not the same as being nerfed.

[RockSunner]

Who needs DEX?

 

DEX in 6E to be an over-rated, overpriced stat. I think in the future I will build characters with as little DEX as I can get away with. Since SPD and CV is now independent of DEX, it doesn't matter as much any more.

 

Want to act first? It's cheaper to buy Lightning Reflexes for all actions for one point, instead of +1 DEX for two. (Or use the option to split DEX into a 1-point Initiative and a 1-point Agility value, and only put points into the Initiative -- that's the same as Lightning Reflexes, though with the latter you can get a cost break if you only want to act first in doing a limited set of actions).

 

Dex-based skill rolls? It takes a +5 to DEX (10 points) to get a +1 to a DEX-based roll. You can get a +1 to all agility skills for 6 points, or a +1 to all attacks for 10 points.

 

It might be fun to build a martial artist with a high speed, high CV, and a 10 DEX.