Variable Advantage Confusion

[Dust Raven]

Okay, I've decided to allow one of my characters to have two EBs with Variable Advantage +1/2 and Variable Advantage +1. So he was wondering exactly how these are used so I started to give him examples. Then I came to Autofire and I paused.

 

One of the powers is written up EB Xd6; Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Variable Advantage +1/2 (+1)

 

So can it even to Autofire? Autofire says that Reduced END costs twice as much, but the Power already has Reduced END, and there is no way to double the value of it. Can it still take Autofire anyway? (My gut feeling on this is to allow it, but...)

 

A similar question for the +1 Variable Adv EB. Since Autofire costs an additional +1 if it's on an attack versus unusual defense or a nonstandard attack roll, can I put both AF5 and AE: Hex on it in the Variable Advantage? (My gut feeling on this is to not allow it, but if I allow the AF / 1/2 END combo, why not this? And if not this, why allow the AF / 1/2 END combo?)

[OddHat]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

As to the 0 End Autofire question, I'd probably just say no. I might allow the character to buy an additional +1/2 of 0 End as a naked advantage though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

I would consider allowing him to use the +1/2 variable advantage blast for autofire, but each shot would now cost 1/2 END (ie when he uses Autofire, he gets the benefits of a +1/2 Reduced END advantage on an autofire attack).

 

I would definitely rule against the 1 hex AE autofire. He can have a total of +1 advantages. He can't afford +1 3/4 (Autofire AE) so he can't have it.

[Wanderer]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

The FAQ says on the subject:

 

"Variable Advantage

 

Q: If a character has Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1) and has separately bought Reduced Endurance (0 END) for his power, what’s the END cost if he uses Variable Advantage for Autofire, which affects the cost of Reduced Endurance?

 

A: The END cost would be half the normal END cost per shot. A +1/2 Reduced Endurance Advantage for an Autofire power is the equivalent of the +1/4 Reduced Endurance Advantage for a normal power (per 5ER 252)."

 

So when the character switches the +1/2 VA on Autofire (5 shots), it pays 1/2 of the normal END Cost for the Power, each shot.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

The FAQ says on the subject:

 

"Variable Advantage

 

Q: If a character has Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1) and has separately bought Reduced Endurance (0 END) for his power, what’s the END cost if he uses Variable Advantage for Autofire, which affects the cost of Reduced Endurance?

 

A: The END cost would be half the normal END cost per shot. A +1/2 Reduced Endurance Advantage for an Autofire power is the equivalent of the +1/4 Reduced Endurance Advantage for a normal power (per 5ER 252)."

 

So when the character switches the +1/2 VA on Autofire (5 shots), it pays 1/2 of the normal END Cost for the Power, each shot.

 

Ah, so the character simply cannot have this power then. The SFX is a number of weapon systems on his powered armor, which his an inexhaustible power supply. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly have it cost END.

 

 

Okay, so maybe we'll go with Charges then doesn't fit the concept as well, but at least it will never cost the character their own END, which would be againt concept.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Oh, and while I'm still here...

 

Any suggestions for "filler" Advantages for either EB? What I mean are those little +1/4 or +1/2 Advantages that don't really do anything, but could be considered a default of sorts he can use when he only needs or wants an Advantage with a value less than the total available?

 

Strange enough, I was thinking of Autofire, which should work with the Charges okay, but not with everything the +1 VA could do (AE again).

[Gary]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Oh, and while I'm still here...

 

Any suggestions for "filler" Advantages for either EB? What I mean are those little +1/4 or +1/2 Advantages that don't really do anything, but could be considered a default of sorts he can use when he only needs or wants an Advantage with a value less than the total available?

 

Strange enough, I was thinking of Autofire, which should work with the Charges okay, but not with everything the +1 VA could do (AE again).

 

 

Autofire is a good one since you can always choose to fire 1 shot even if you have the capability of firing 3 or 5.

 

Other extremely useful 'default' ones (assuming 0 End already) are Personal Immunity, Variable Special Effects, Affects Desolids, or Indirect.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Autofire is a good one since you can always choose to fire 1 shot even if you have the capability of firing 3 or 5.

 

Other extremely useful 'default' ones (assuming 0 End already) are Personal Immunity, Variable Special Effects, Affects Desolids, or Indirect.

 

If you just need to fill the slot? Difficult to Dispel.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

If you just need to fill the slot? Difficult to Dispel.

 

Oh, duh! I had forgotten about that one.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

To make further use of this thread, I present the actual construst being used for this character:

 

93	Guns: Multipower, 112-point reserve, all slots 32 Charges (+1/4); all slots OIF (-1/2)
7u	1) Lots of Different Guns: EB 9d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1); OIF (-1/2)	0
7u	2) More Guns: EB 6d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; +2); OIF (-1/2)	0
4u	3) Really Big Gun: EB 18d6; Requires 8 Charges Per Use (-1), OIF (-1/2)	0

 

What this Multipower represents are the weapon systems in a suit of powered armor. Although everything draws off the same charges, this actually represents just about any gun-type the player can think of. Only the Really Big Gun is actually a single weapon (and one that isn't used often).

 

So, for my next round of questions, I'd like suggestions for what guns can actually be on the armor. Things like Plasma Auto-Cannon: EB 6d6, AF5, Penetrating and Heat Laser: EB 9d6, Armor Piercing. I figure there can be several dozen combinations with just the Variable Advantages, but each of those slots also have Variable SFX as well, so just about anything is possible. What the player and I are looking for is a list of the weapons that "actually are" part of the armor (although technically we could come up with something new on the spur of the moment and say he just installed it or forgot it was there until now).

 

So, what would be some good ideas (or even so-so ideas)?

[Wanderer]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

1) Gamma Laser: Penetrating

2) Particle Beam Cannon: Armor-Piercing

3) Graviton Cannon: Indirect

4) Plasma Burst: Explosion

5) Neutron Beam: No Range Modifier

6) Electrolaser: STUN Only

[paigeoliver]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

You might want to tone down the variable special effects.

 

Any effect means that he can fire live flaming monkeys from hell that pummel the target before turning into a sort of gray goop on the ground. I would probably change it to "any technological effect" unless chicken guns, flaming blood, disease spores, and "the power of tough love" are within concept.

[Wanderer]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

You might want to tone down the variable special effects.

 

Any effect means that he can fire live flaming monkeys from hell that pummel the target before turning into a sort of gray goop on the ground. I would probably change it to "any technological effect" unless chicken guns, flaming blood, disease spores, and "the power of tough love" are within concept.

 

I'd rather suggest to modify it to Variable Special Effect (Any Energy SFX): i.e. Electricity, Fire/Heat, Force, Gravity, Ice/Cold, Kinetic Energy, Magnetism, Radiation, and Telekinesis. Because the SFX range is rather broad, the advantage value still remains at +1/2, though: IIRC, once SL ruled it so on a similar query.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

I'd rather suggest to modify it to Variable Special Effect (Any Energy SFX): i.e. Electricity' date=' Fire/Heat, Force, Gravity, Ice/Cold, Kinetic Energy, Magnetism, Radiation, and Telekinesis. Because the SFX range is rather broad, the advantage value still remains at +1/2, though: IIRC, once SL ruled it so on a similar query.[/quote']

 

That's pretty much what it is, although it more of a "any non-projectile" effect, specifically that which can even remotely be achieved through technology. No flaming puddle monkeys.

[Wanderer]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

That's pretty much what it is' date=' although it more of a "any non-projectile" effect, specifically that which can even remotely be achieved through technology. No flaming puddle monkeys.[/quote']

 

Yeah, altough making it "any energy non-projectile" allows the SFX to be freed from the need for ammunition (no mandatory Charges). Although the power isn't necessarily restricted to ED attacks: PD blasts can be readily made through Force, Kinetic Energy, Gravity etc. SFX. Exception: if the SFX is based on nanomachines (either hyper-advanced powered armor or robotics, or technorganic hybridization with human), you can also allow projectile attacks (such as railguns): given access to some raw materials (soil, or the body's own wastes), the nanites will keep churn out new ammunition as needed. Nanites are de riguer for the coscentious power armored or cyborg superhero. Chrome is so passe...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Oh, and while I'm still here...

 

Any suggestions for "filler" Advantages for either EB? What I mean are those little +1/4 or +1/2 Advantages that don't really do anything, but could be considered a default of sorts he can use when he only needs or wants an Advantage with a value less than the total available?

 

Strange enough, I was thinking of Autofire, which should work with the Charges okay, but not with everything the +1 VA could do (AE again).

Personally, I wouldn't require that you use all the Variable Advantages you have. That's just silly. If he only really wants a +1/4 on his EB at the moment, don't make him think up other stuff to throw in; it's just pointless math. Of course, the Hard to Dispel (possibly multiple times) is an incredibly easy and nice one.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Suggestions:

 

* Pay double for the Reduced END Cost. That sort of defeats part of your purpose, though.

 

* Buy enough Variable Advantage to include the additional cost of the additional Reduced END when you switch to Autofire.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Variable Advantage Confusion

 

Yeah' date=' altough making it "any energy non-projectile" allows the SFX to be freed from the need for ammunition (no mandatory Charges). Although the power isn't necessarily restricted to ED attacks: PD blasts can be readily made through Force, Kinetic Energy, Gravity etc. SFX. Exception: if the SFX is based on nanomachines (either hyper-advanced powered armor or robotics, or technorganic hybridization with human), you can also allow projectile attacks (such as railguns): given access to some raw materials (soil, or the body's own wastes), the nanites will keep churn out new ammunition as needed. Nanites are de riguer for the coscentious power armored or cyborg superhero. Chrome is so passe...[/quote']

 

It has charges to represent a limited energy supply. Just his luck that all of his weapons (except the big gun) all use the same energy per shot. (or rather, he's specifically designed all of the weapons so that they use an identical amount of enery).

 

I'm thinking he can definately have attacks versus PD and ED, but I don't think there are (or should be) any projectile type attacks. A sonic cannon, gravity beam, even a freezer ray, are all possible as far as I'm concerned, but no rail guns.