Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Everything you say depends on the campaign in question. 4 50-point goblins, even with a good teamwork roll, are not a match for 4 175-point PCs. They will be tougher than your average D&D goblins, sure, but that doesn't automatically equal "too powerful".

[Christopher]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Everything you say depends on the campaign in question. 4 50-point goblins' date=' even with a good teamwork roll, are not a match for 4 175-point PCs. They will be tougher than your average D&D goblins, sure, but that doesn't automatically equal "too powerful".[/quote']

Yes, if you throw out a scenario designed to disproove my point, you can successfully disprove my point. Congratulations.

 

But you will more likely put 2-3 times as many 50 point goblins on the field. And suddenly teamwork, full tactics and full recovery/value tracking makes a huge difference.

[Steve]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Yes, if you throw out a scenario designed to disproove my point, you can successfully disprove my point. Congratulations.

 

But you will more likely put 2-3 times as many 50 point goblins on the field. And suddenly teamwork, full tactics and full recovery/value tracking makes a huge difference.

 

So your contention is that eight or twelve 50 point goblins is equal or better to four 175 point characters? I have to confess, I've never seen it work out like that in actual play. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen it in decades of playing this system.

 

That being said, one thing to consider is the equipment each group is carrying. If your four characters are loaded up with typical levels of armor and magic items, that tips the balance even more in their favor. If you had minimally-armed characters and heavily-armed goblins with magic and suchlike, the balance definitely shifts to equal or the goblins favor. Imagine those 50 point goblins armed with 100 points each worth of magic and equipment.

 

The points on a character sheet are not the whole story. Equipment does matter.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Yes' date=' if you throw out a scenario designed to disproove my point, you can successfully disprove my point. Congratulations.But you will more likely put 2-3 times as many 50 point goblins on the field. And suddenly teamwork, full tactics and full recovery/value tracking makes a huge difference.[/quote']I took the 4 50-point goblins from your previous post. You chose the number, not me. Why would I most likely put 2-3 times that many on the field? Your still making huge assumptions. Maybe I'm not trying to copy D&D where the goblins that you claim are too stupid to work together and don't trust eachother still attack in huge groups. Maybe if you want D&D goblins that a party of "level 1" heroes can wade through with ease they shouldn't be built with 50 points. Maybe you should stop making sweeping statements about how things should be without regard to campaign or setting and accusing anyone who disagrees with you of wasting time making up custom examples to negate your arguments when they used your own examples.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Also I never said anything about "full tactics and full recovery". I don't think anyone has other than you. I simply stated that goblins (or insert other "mook" type) using Teamwork did NOT automatically equal the GM using "every available tactic" or that it automatically made goblins "too strong". YOU are the one that keeps equating allowing goblins to have Teamwork to them using every available tactic and getting the full benifits of Recovery just like a PC.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Fantasy HERO encounters & balancing them

 

Basic guidelines:

 

OCV: If you want the opponent to hit the player characters often, beat their average DCV by at least 2 points.

If you want the chance to hit the PC's to be about even, have the opponents OCV to be within 1 point of the PC's average DCV.

If you want the opponent to miss more often, have their OCV be 2 points or more below your PC's DCV.

 

The same goes for the opponents DCV but in reverse.

 

Damage vs Defense: Go by the attacks Damage Class. If the Damage Class of the attack is significantly below the Defense of the defender, the attack is likely to be ineffective. If the DC vs DEF is about even, the attack can be effective, but unlikely to be deadly. If the DC is considerably higher than the Defense of the defender, then the attack is likely to be deadly in only 1 or 2 solid strikes. KEEP THIS IN MIND DURING YOUR ENCOUNTERS. It is very important.

 

The above suggestions mixed together make the balance of the encounter.

 

If your NPC has a hard time hitting, but does lots of damage the few times he does hit, its a balanced encounter.

If your NPC can hit a lot, but does less damage on average compared to PC's defenses, its pretty balanced.

If your NPC can hit an average number of times and DC's average out equal to Defenses, then its pretty balanced.

 

Beware if:

Your NPC can hit a lot AND can do massive damage with each hit. You will end up with dead PC's in such an encounter.

Your NPC doesn't hit very often nor can your NPC do any kind of damage the few times they can hit. Such an encounter is not at all challenging to the PC's (though, sometimes such a scenario is desired)

 

If you want to challenge your PC's:

Make your NPC hit often and do average levels of damage. This makes for a scenario where the players have to implement defensive tactics using dodge and block maneuvers to prevent the damage from piling up quickly as it will in such an encounter.

Make your NPC hit an average number of times, but do massive damage on each hit. This creates a scenario where the PC's feel they have to take down their opponent quickly to avoid losing too many comrades to their enemies highly damaging attacks.

 

Hope that helps.