Deathstroke

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Deathstroke

 

In the DC universe' date=' Deathstroke, Batman, and Superman form a vicious circle. When Deathstroke came to Gotham, He beat Bats largely because he's more vicious in combat (being an assasin). Later Superman brought him in because Slade couldn't hurt him and couldn't hide from his super-senses. It has been shown on multiple occasions that Batman can both outsmart Supes and has both the krypotonite and the contingency plans to take Superman down. Each one can take down one of the others and has a weakness to the third.[/quote']

 

 

I seem to remember a story in which Slade gets his ass knocked around by Aquaman because he seriously underestimates Arthur Curry.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Well, Katherine, my advice to you would be to stay the hell away from those damned horses cause they'll be the death of you.

 

As for Deathstroke the Identity Crisis skirmish may be a stretch but really not all that much of one. The JLA were loopy, crazy with grief and not thinking striaght. Slade had home field advantage, time to prepare and was dispassionate about what was going on. Plus, the JLA weren't giving Slade credit for being as dangerous as he is...which he was counting on and used to his advantage. Slade fought the JLA the way Batman would have...which is why it worked.

 

In fact, the Identity Crisis Deathstroke is probably a lot closer to the original concept of Slade than he's been depicted in years.

 

Vigil

[Bloodstone]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Slade moves faster than Wally West? Yeah... and I'm the reincarnation of Katherine the Great.

 

It's not that he's faster then Wally. It's that he knows him very well from having fought him before. He set the Flash up and the Flash fell right into the trap.

 

Slade had a held action, that's all

[Prometheus]

Re: Deathstroke

 

The old Mayfair Games/DC Heroes write up of Deathstroke was pretty scary, and in that system I could see him taking on the JLA the way he did in IC. In the latest iteration of the DC universe in RPG form- DC Universe by West End Games- Slade just ain't what he used to be, but alot of that's due to the system, not necessarily his write up. For the record, in his latest version, Slade beats out Nightwing and Bats in raw physical stats, but comes in third behind 'wing in Martial Arts skill.

 

If you're looking for a Deathstroke write up for your campaign, have a look at Mechassassin from CKC. If you internalize most of his abilities, you have a good start for Deathstroke, which you can flavor to taste.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Deathstroke

 

It's not that he's faster then Wally. It's that he knows him very well from having fought him before. He set the Flash up and the Flash fell right into the trap.

 

Slade had a held action, that's all

 

 

West could have (and has been shown doing in the past) moved through the line of Slade's explosives because he's moving faster than the shockwave. He could have evaded the sword thrust (as has been able to avoid similar attacks in the past) because to his point of view Slade would have been moving as if wading through a block of amber.

 

My point being that West moves so quickly and reacts so quickly that Slade's preparations for and knowledge of the Flash would have been moot.

 

And as far as underestimating Slade... bull feces.

 

 

EDIT: And I stand by my statement regarding Green Lantern becoming a punching machine instead of using his ring as creatively as he did in his own series.

[Oruncrest]

Re: Deathstroke

 

West could have (and has been shown doing in the past) moved through the line of Slade's explosives because he's moving faster than the shockwave. He could have evaded the sword thrust (as has been able to avoid similar attacks in the past) because to his point of view Slade would have been moving as if wading through a block of amber.

 

My point being that West moves so quickly and reacts so quickly that Slade's preparations for and knowledge of the Flash would have been moot.

 

If you think about it, It actually makes less sense than your writeup describes. lets not forget that Wally was running fast enough to evade the shockwaves of 3 different explosions in less time than it took for the explosions to begin to wind down (look at the panels, the energy bulge from the explosions are exactly the same). Now putting aside the fact that DS was able to place his sword where it needed to be in that miniscule amount of time, the momentum from the Flash running into that sword should've knocked DS into at least one of the explosions. And why's Wally on his knees since he was running at DS in the previous panel?

 

The only explanation I can think of is that Wally deliberately jobbed to DS here. He ran behind DS, stopped, got down on his knees, and impaled himself on the sword. Either that, or the writer didn't have a damn clue.

 

And after Slade's Laser-Pointer-O'-Doom, I find myself leaning heavily for the second rationale.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Slade had timing. Think of it this way: Slade ensured that Wally would go the way he did because he calculated it so that the explosions would happen just as Wally was going to shift to another way to get around the explosion. Wally goes to point A but Slade had it preset so it goes off just before Wally gets there--Wally shifts to point B, Slade did the same thing and so on leaving Wally 1 entry point.

 

There've been a number of times that Wally has been taken down in the comics in similar and less reputable circumstances--when he's alert and fully rationale.

 

Slade taking Kyle like he did makes sense when you consider that--yeah Kyle has the most powerful long range weapon in the galaxy--but that he usually takes too much time to come up with a solution. Not saying he's slow, but his creativity gets in the way sometimes. When his friends get dropped, he responds how most people would.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Slade taking Kyle like he did makes sense when you consider that--yeah Kyle has the most powerful long range weapon in the galaxy--but that he usually takes too much time to come up with a solution. Not saying he's slow' date=' but his creativity gets in the way sometimes. When his friends get dropped, he responds how most people would.[/quote']

 

 

Yeah... by blasting the crap out of whatever took his friend down from a distance using an incredibly creative mind and a willpower second only to that of Hal Jordan's. Kyle is slow to react? Horse pucky. How about "The writer wanted to show Slade was a badass so he intentionally nerfed a bunch of experienced, powerful heroes and turned them into them into the Inferior Five just so it would be so kewl for the fanboyz."

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

If he wanted to cater to fanboyz, wouldn't he have gone the other way with making Wally and Kyle much better? Seriously, IC #2 made a much bigger impact with "fanboyz" with the Brave and the Bold comment.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Additioanlly, Kyle has always been hesitant to act in his own series. While Kyle is a strong character in his own right, the fact that he does hesitate and has fear is actually one of his stronger qualities.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Plus, in simple Champs terms, what Slade did to Kyle was one helluva PRE attack. Think about it. Something like a 35 base PRE (seems about right) for Slade add -1d6 for in combat, +1d6 for Kyle being surprised (Slade grabbbing Kyle's hand), +3d6 for incredibly violent action (running Wally through and crushing Kyle's hand), +1d6 for exhibiting a power (willpower or whomping the rest of the League's asses), +2d6 for a very appropriate setting ( in the midst of the whomped Leagues asses) and +3d6 for Slade's rep for a 16d6 PRE Attack. Assuming Slade rolls okay we'd be looking at a botu a PRE attack of 56. Even if Kyle's PRE is around 25 (which I think may even be a bit high) Slade gets PRE +30 and a fair shot at overwhelming Kyle's willpower. I think that's what was happening at that point in IC.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Deathstroke

 

You guys are missing the point that the writer nerfed Kyle by turning him into a punching machine instead of someone who is used to and practiced at fighting from range.

 

In short, the battle of wills never should have happened.

 

 

Edit:

 

A friend of mine made the following arguments:

 

I'll concede that the Flash scenario is within the realm of possibility (although considering how many times Wally's faced Slade, you think he would have figured out that trick by now, don't you?)

 

However...

 

1) After Kyle Rayner divested himself of the godlike power he possessed as Ion, he made some changes to his ring, including that it would always return to him when it was taken off, always have an emergency supply of power, and that it would only work for him, nobody else .

 

2) Kyle's will is a hell of alot stronger than Deathstroke's.

 

3) He would have attacked before that point, anyway, from afar, right after seeing Wally get shish-kibabed.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Deathstroke

 

The ring change I'll grant you. The issue of who's willpower is stronger, I'd argue. Considering the amount of patience that Slade's demonstrated (patience is derived from will) in his endeavors (in the past) as well as his sense of commitment I would argue the Kyle may have only slightly more willpower, but he'd still be weakened/afraid of what someone like Slade did to more veteran capes.

[Vigil]

Re: Deathstroke

 

I'd argue that it's probably Slade who has the greater willpower (EGO). Look at the evidence. Kyle was a mediocre, unmotivated artist/schlub who got the ring more or less by chance and gradually grew into the role.

 

Slade is a military machine, disciplined and used to working under extraordinarily stressful and taxing environments. Plus the treatments he got enhanced all of his faculties so I'm asuming there was some boost to EGO etc. I think it's pretty likely, in fact, that Slade would win a battle of wills with most Green Lanterns short of Hal Jordan or Alan Scott. In essence, Slade parallels Magneto who has a vast, almost unbreakable will to the point where he while not a trained psionic can engage in battle sof will with Prof. X. Slade's kinda the same way. he may not be atrained psychic but his raw willpower and tactical sense allow him to engage in such things with a reasonable hope of success.

 

Plus, Slade is a vastly more experienced fighter and tactician than Kyle and reacts way faster, too. He fights smarter and with more economy plus he's way more ruthelss and less intimidated by extreme violence. I'm kinda surprised, actually, that Slade hasn't done something like this to Kyle before.

[shaunclinton]

Re: Deathstroke

 

All this reminds me of the scene in GL: Rebirth when Ollie musters up this pathetic little arrow and asks "Is it always like this?" exhausted and struggling... to which the answer is "Every time."

 

Total BS.

 

The writer was on crack.

 

Kyle Rayner, handed the most powerful weapons in the galaxy and starts flying around kicking @ss with it... has more willpower than Green Arrow who dedicated his life to an ideal and became the greatest archer in the world? I know the ring is controlled and to an extent limited (or unlimited if you prefer) by willpower, but it doesn't require 'superhuman' willpower.

 

The writers assertion that for anyone other than Hal, Guy, John and Kyle using a GL Ring is so difficult flies in the face of everything that has went beforehand. Handed a ring guys like Slade, Batman, John Henry, Superman and the like could perform incredible feats. And plenty of characters in comic-don have already experience the use of a GL ring without almost keeling over.

 

So I think Slade probably has bucketloads of EGO over Kyle, although Mr. Rayner probably has bought it up from the 12 it started at to a more respectable 20-25, I'd put Slade in the 25-30 ballpark though and go from that. The only problem with what he does is the failsafes in Kyle's ring, but if Slade is using his will to counteract Kyles, rather than to control the ring, maybe that way he can cut off the flow of will to the ring and disable it indirectly. Who knows? More likely the writer was on the same stuff they passed round before Rebirth!!!

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Slade(Deathstroke) uses 90% of his brain's potential' date=' instead of the normal 10% the rest of use, this gives him heightened senses, reactions and strength and makes him real hard to outsmart. He has fought multiple incarnations of the Titans to a standstill and took out one version of the JLA in Identity Crisis. He can beat Bats but Bats can beat him as well, all depends on the situation and level of planning for each.[/quote']

 

What's this? only the biggest bucket of sithspit i've heard being sloshed about in a looong time.

 

Now i'll be the first to admit that i don't know much about death stroke, because i've never read the comics. Heck that's why i read these threads.

 

But i do know, that in an average day, you use about 70-80% of your brain. The 10% rule is about 10% at a time, because the brain is a highly specialized organ. Right now i'm reading, thinking what i'm going to say, and typing it. I'm not listening, recalling stored information, thinking about a hypothetical situation, trying to memorize something etc. I'm only using 10% of my brain to write this post, but then i use a diffrent 10% later.

 

I think Dethstroke is just silly

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Deathstroke

 

Oh thank god.

 

A thread with Deathstroke fanboyism, Cap vs. Bats, and bickering over write-ups. Damn. How have we lived without having this little piece of joy brought back to life sooner?

 

Hoo-ray for thread necromancy.

[MitchellS]

Re: Deathstroke

 

What's this? only the biggest bucket of sithspit i've heard being sloshed about in a looong time.

 

Now i'll be the first to admit that i don't know much about death stroke, because i've never read the comics. Heck that's why i read these threads.

 

But i do know, that in an average day, you use about 70-80% of your brain. The 10% rule is about 10% at a time, because the brain is a highly specialized organ. Right now i'm reading, thinking what i'm going to say, and typing it. I'm not listening, recalling stored information, thinking about a hypothetical situation, trying to memorize something etc. I'm only using 10% of my brain to write this post, but then i use a diffrent 10% later.

 

I think Dethstroke is just silly

Now imagine if you used all those 10% parts at the same time. Then you'd be Deathstroke.

 

And it's also not very wise to call a character silly if you no nothing about him. He is one of the iconic villains of the DC Universe. It would be like saying Darseid is silly because he has an omega effect.

[Superskrull]

Re: Deathstroke

 

It would be like saying Darseid is silly because he has an omega effect.

 

Nah, he's not silly because of the Omega Effect, he's silly despite the Omega Effect. After all, he surrounds himself with such winners as Vermin Vundabarr and Desaad. Frankly, those two would have been fried long ago if I was Darkseid. Oh, and Glorious Godfrey would get one more chance before I reduce him to his component particles. One more screw-up like that Legends fiasco and it's the 'dead file' for him.

 

Oh, and the less said about the Deep Six, the better.