Meta SFX

[AmadanNaBriona]

OK...so theres been a lot of discussion about the problems with Power Defence and Adjustment powers.

There are a host of potential ways to change them, and they provide wonderful board fodder... but for the moment, it seems that the simplest way to aleivaite the worst of the issues is to shift them to being SFX driven.

This presents a problem.

There are as many SFX as there are HERO players, potentially.

 

So, before (or in addition to) looking at mechanical changes, lets try and start compliling a list of Meta SFX that could be used to encompass the various overarching uses for Adjustment Powers and Power Defence. This could give us a table, eventually, that works similar to the Sense Groups or the Mind Classes to help solve some of the issues.

 

Meta SFX that I can think of, right off the bat, are:

Magic

Psionics

Technology

Environmental

Biological

Mutant

 

any others folk can think of?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Highy Skilled (like batman)

Alien

[zornwil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I like Highly Skilled. I would shift Alien to be subservient to the others, IMHO.

 

Why is Mutant not Biological or under other categories, as well? To me, "Mutant" is what one is, the manifestation of the mutation falls into the other categories (including Biological).

 

Probably might broaden Biological to be Biochemical.

 

I'm having a hard time following this approach though - ANB, would you please tell me how you see the following SFX fitting into the meta categories:

 

Acid Attack

Poison (let's say an LSD-like drug)

Heat Vision

Cat's Eyes

Rubbery Skin

Dimensional Energy

 

Anyway, the idea is interesting, I just wonder if it's practically feasible? I also wonder if it really creates a complexity better left to individual GMs? Anyway, don't let my doubts derail it, just file those away. I don't want to debate the idea, I'm anxious to see it evolve first.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I like Highly Skilled. I would shift Alien to be subservient to the others, IMHO.

 

Why is Mutant not Biological or under other categories, as well? To me, "Mutant" is what one is, the manifestation of the mutation falls into the other categories (including Biological).

I was looking at Mutant as a distinct SFX category for Meta SFX from an Adjustment power POV because it is SUCH a broad category, not to mention the way that it appears in some of our source materials (aka Comics, in this case)

 

Probably might broaden Biological to be Biochemical.

quite possibly...I'm not wedded to anything at this point. Another thought might be Organic or just Chemical

 

I'm having a hard time following this approach though - ANB, would you please tell me how you see the following SFX fitting into the meta categories:

 

Acid Attack

Poison (let's say an LSD-like drug)

Heat Vision

Cat's Eyes

Rubbery Skin

Dimensional Energy

I'm actually thinking of a tiered system, similar to Sense Groups or Weapon Familiarities, where there would be (hopefully) a half dozen or so Broad categories of Meta SFX with each greater heading having a list of common SFX beneath it... this gives a way of grouping Adjustment powers to match them with appropriate power defence, while at the same time allowing a degree of flexibility.

to use some of your examples...

Heat Vision END Drain (causes fatigue), Ranged. Vs. Environmental Power Def (or possibly with a Limitation, affected by multiple defences, Environmental and Mutant) or a larger limitation (Affected by ED)

Acid Attack Body Drain, Sticky, Gradual Effect. Stopped by Biochemical Power Defence (assuming for the moment that you don't want to do this as a more conventional KA)

 

I could go on, but the basic idea isn't to set things in stone, but rather to provide a set of categories that powers can be codified into to allow SFX based adjustment powers. Thus decreasing the overall utility of power defence (in the face of the increased frequency of powers that are targeted against Power Def) and shifting adjustment powers to a SFX base rather than Power construct base. Much the same way that, say, Spatial Awareness can be defined as belonging to almost any sense group at construction, but once you've created your character and defined it as Sight group based, it starts being affect by Sight flashes and defended by Sight Flash Defence.

A comic example....

Forge, from the X men, is a mutant who's power is the ability manipulate and invent super tech. Hitting him with a Supress vs. all Mutant powers iisn't going to affect the distribution of his Gadget pool, but it will certainly elminate any other tricks he has based on his mutant inventing ability... say his "Transform broken tech into working tech" power

 

Anyway' date=' the idea is interesting, I just wonder if it's practically feasible? I also wonder if it really creates a complexity better left to individual GMs? Anyway, don't let my doubts derail it, just file those away. I don't want to debate the idea, I'm anxious to see it evolve first.[/quote']

There's gonna have to be a ton of individual input from GM's and players of specific campaigns, but I'm pretty certain we can come up with a good working base model.

Like everything else in this system...

its up to GM preference

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Meta SFX

 

*snip* I was looking at Mutant as a distinct SFX category for Meta SFX from an Adjustment power POV because it is SUCH a broad category' date=' not to mention the way that it appears in some of our source materials (aka Comics, in this case) *snip, snip*[/quote']

 

I concur that "Mutant" deserves its own category, if for no other reason than that some mutant Powers are basically inherent to one's being a mutant (whether they are bought as Inherent or not), and may not fit easily, if at all, into any of the other Meta SFX you mention.

 

I think it's going to be very hard to come up with a good, working list of Meta SFX which covers most or all SFX possibilities, but if you do accomplish it, then you're the man.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I concur that "Mutant" deserves its own category' date=' if for no other reason than that some mutant Powers are basically inherent to one's being a mutant (whether they are bought as [i']Inherent[/i] or not), and may not fit easily, if at all, into any of the other Meta SFX you mention.

 

I think it's going to be very hard to come up with a good, working list of Meta SFX which covers most or all SFX possibilities, but if you do accomplish it, then you're the man.

My friend....

I spent over a year designing the metaphysical system for my world setting before ever even touching game mechanics. I'm capable of amazing acts of intellectual hyperfocus if I'm dumb enough to let something engage my rather deficted attention

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I'm up for this kind of thing. It was discussed earlier this year in this thread.

 

Doc

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Meta SFX

 

My friend....

I spent over a year designing the metaphysical system for my world setting before ever even touching game mechanics. I'm capable of amazing acts of intellectual hyperfocus if I'm dumb enough to let something engage my rather deficted attention

 

Well, if you have the SFX types for your own campaign tucked away in memory, it should be a snap to fit them all under Meta categories.

 

Lessee, Poison is biological, Acid... I guess it counts as environmental. I dunno, I think Environmental may be too much of a catch-all, you may need to subdivide it to decrease its breadth of SFX. Perhaps "Phenomenon" (Light, Fire, Plasma, anything that is not a solid, liquid or gas) and "Physical" (Acid, Magma, etcetera).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Well, if you have the SFX types for your own campaign tucked away in memory, it should be a snap to fit them all under Meta categories.

 

Lessee, Poison is biological, Acid... I guess it counts as environmental. I dunno, I think Environmental may be too much of a catch-all, you may need to subdivide it to decrease its breadth of SFX. Perhaps "Phenomenon" (Light, Fire, Plasma, anything that is not a solid, liquid or gas) and "Physical" (Acid, Magma, etcetera).

 

In the earlier discussion we were thinking that if you had a list of special effects that you'd want to keep it down to 20 maximum. When you create your adjustment power you would choose one SFX that would have full value against the attack and possibly one or two that had half value.

 

So the poison adjustment that you were talking about could be biological but chemical and mutant might give half protection...

 

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I concur that "Mutant" deserves its own category' date=' if for no other reason than that some mutant Powers are basically inherent to one's being a mutant (whether they are bought as [i']Inherent[/i] or not), and may not fit easily, if at all, into any of the other Meta SFX you mention.

 

So, where does "Alien" fit? An alien's powers are generally inherent to being an alien, and are also biological in nature. What if he's a mutant alien? Can he pick some powers under each sfx? They are all functions of a biology which differs from a baseline human, so there is some logic to placing them all under the same category.

 

Then again, there's never been a lot of logic to "mutant power suppressors" which impact natural mutants (Cyclops), but not artificial mutants (Human Torch) or aliens who have powers because, like mutants, their biology differs from the human norm (Capt. Mar-Vell).

 

I think it's going to be very hard to come up with a good' date=' working list of Meta SFX which covers most or all SFX possibilities, but if you do accomplish it, then you're the man.[/quote']

 

Agreed. It's more practical if you establish the hard and fast rule that these are the only SFX permitted in Campaign World X.

[zornwil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I was looking at Mutant as a distinct SFX category for Meta SFX from an Adjustment power POV because it is SUCH a broad category, not to mention the way that it appears in some of our source materials (aka Comics, in this case)

 

 

quite possibly...I'm not wedded to anything at this point. Another thought might be Organic or just Chemical

 

 

I'm actually thinking of a tiered system, similar to Sense Groups or Weapon Familiarities, where there would be (hopefully) a half dozen or so Broad categories of Meta SFX with each greater heading having a list of common SFX beneath it... this gives a way of grouping Adjustment powers to match them with appropriate power defence, while at the same time allowing a degree of flexibility.

to use some of your examples...

Heat Vision END Drain (causes fatigue), Ranged. Vs. Environmental Power Def (or possibly with a Limitation, affected by multiple defences, Environmental and Mutant) or a larger limitation (Affected by ED)

Acid Attack Body Drain, Sticky, Gradual Effect. Stopped by Biochemical Power Defence (assuming for the moment that you don't want to do this as a more conventional KA)

 

I could go on, but the basic idea isn't to set things in stone, but rather to provide a set of categories that powers can be codified into to allow SFX based adjustment powers. Thus decreasing the overall utility of power defence (in the face of the increased frequency of powers that are targeted against Power Def) and shifting adjustment powers to a SFX base rather than Power construct base. Much the same way that, say, Spatial Awareness can be defined as belonging to almost any sense group at construction, but once you've created your character and defined it as Sight group based, it starts being affect by Sight flashes and defended by Sight Flash Defence.

A comic example....

Forge, from the X men, is a mutant who's power is the ability manipulate and invent super tech. Hitting him with a Supress vs. all Mutant powers iisn't going to affect the distribution of his Gadget pool, but it will certainly elminate any other tricks he has based on his mutant inventing ability... say his "Transform broken tech into working tech" power

 

Okay, so then, for clarity, the primary SFX or at least "a" primary SFX "parent class" is the broad SFX which suppresses the origin, not necessarily the manifestation, of the power. Which, btw, in my mind, introduces an interesting - and useful - dichotomy in that we actually have SFX origination and execution to consider.

 

So I would argue that for Origination we have something like:

 

Magic

Psionics

Technology

Environmental

Biological/Organic - plus Chemical?

Mutant

Skill

 

It might be worthwhile, for this purpose only, to group Environmental with Bio/Organic/Chem, calling it all "Natural". So:

 

Magic

Psionics

Technology

Natural

Mutant

Skill

 

Now, this has nothing to do with Execution - that's probably a good, even a grand thing. Because now we don't have to worry about heat/cold/etc., for THIS purpose. And I would take it "THIS" purpose is Drain/Suppress/etc., as you introduced this for governing Adjustment Powers and PowDef.

 

It gets tricky, though, if our character now wants to make his SFX "I Suppress all Heat Attacks - regardless of Origin". This is eminently logical. Mr. Freeze can do this, who cares if it's Magic Heat or Mutant Heat or Natural Heat? I'm getting at a loss where to take this, then, and make it workable. Do we use the same SFX matrix and then indicate that once Origin is over and we're into Execution that a few of these basically fall away - that we wouldn't have Mutant, Technology, or Skill because in Execution we now are talking about a concrete energy form, either Magic, Psionics, or Natural? That might be okay...so my Heat Supress is "Natural SFX Parent Category" because after all Heat is a naturally occurring thing. This means that my true uber-heat suppressing guy who wants to suppress Magical Heat or Psionic Heat has to address those SFX categories as well, but that's not a bad thing, and doesn't even come into play in "realistic" games.

 

Thoughts?

 

(snip)

Like everything else in this system...

its up to GM preference

 

Sheesh, when can we eliminate that?

[zornwil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Another thought...the more traditional, HERO-steeped among us probably have a hard time with this concept. I do to some degree. The core notion of HERO is to set aside SFX.

 

But Adjustment Powers necessarily opened that damnable door and to abide by the Primary Meta-Rule of HERO, "we shall simulate heroic fiction", it's a necessary evil.

 

In fact, it should be pointed out that 5ER even has specifically addressed this with more attention to SFX, including its own rudimentary SFX list - see the sidebar on page 96.

 

So I suppose ANB is right to take the bull by the horns and raise this most thorny subject. It plays well into Christopher Mullins' concurrent development on reducing Adjustment Powers back to basics and building up again, which I heartily endorse.

 

Unfortunately, I think we're at least 2 editions away from resolving all this...and many, many more if everyone who runs HERO continues to try to not fundamentally readdress Adjustment Powers and instead cling stubbornly to the idea of sticking with what has been and simply incrementally refining them. Not that I'm not sympathetic to that approach - it's very hard managing a game system from a "people" perspective and one does have to cater to the current user base. But I think all these discussions point out the fundamental need to really address Adjustment Powers from scratch.

 

Personally, I'm willing to go down this path, but I still have a prejudice towards eliminating PowDef completely as I've noted elsewhere and going down the regular DEF/AVLD/NND path.

[schir1964]

Re: Meta SFX

 

This tiered system seems to be very similar to how Life Support now works.

 

Here's another way to break things down (just throwing out ideas here):

 

Source Of Powers/SFX

 

Internal/Inherent: Source of Powers/SFX come from or are part of the character.

 

• Mutants: Powers/SFX are actually generated by the character's body itself.
  
• Races: Character's race grants certain inherent abilities (ex. Elves).
  
• Technology: Characters that are based on technology. (ex. Androids, AI Programs, etc...)
  

 

External/Non-Inherent: Source of Powers/SFX come from outside the character or requires some outside catalyst to manifest.

 

• Magic: Character's Powers/SFX come from type of Magical source.
  
• Technology: Characters that get thier Powers/SFX from technology but don't require them or need them.
  
• Catalyst: Powers/SFX require something external to activate them. (ex. Superman, yes that's right, he falls into this category since all his powers requires the Yellow Sun.)
  

 

These are simply sample category lists. They would need to be expanded and refined to something better, but you get the idea.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[RDU Neil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I don't think I have anything new to say here I haven't said in other threads... but that doesn't seem to stop most people...

 

1. Core Axioms and Mechanics - Hero has nothing to do with SFX.

 

Is the purpose of this thread to try and insert SFX of powers into the Mechanic levels? Mutants & Masterminds does this... but then that is not a system... but a game. Or in other words...

 

2. SFX are critical at the Game Rule and Play Experience level... thus dating back to 1st Edition Champions, SFX have had a large place in the game. BUT, as Hero developed in a system... not a game... many of the Game Rule level issues (like SFX) were incorporated in at the mechanics level... and this generates numerous issues.

 

I'm assuming (and may be wrong) that this thread is an attempt to discuss SFX as a way to lock them in firmer at the Game Rule level... and perhaps at the mechanic level as well.

 

(As an example to differentiate between a Mechanic and a Game rule...

1d6 of damage = 5 active points is a mechanic

 

-1/2 for "Not vs. Fire" is a Game Rule)

 

I think SFX have extreme use in the areas of Adjustment Powers, Power Defense and what I'll call cantrip powers for lack of a better term.

 

The core mechanic of Adjustment Powers works fine without SFX. 1d6 of added or subtracted active points to a characteristic or power, cost adjusted based on active point cost of power. (Thus six points of STR drain is only 2 points of DEX drain.)

 

Power Defense stops Adjustment Power at 1 for 1.

 

At the mechanics level... very simple in concept... but it begins to get very messy as soon as we try to interpret this into Game Rules and Play.

 

When we start to break Adjustment Powers down... Drains, Aid, Transfers... we are mostly still in the mechanic level and ok (in theory) but we quickly cross the invisible line with Healing, Regeneration... let alone further defining things as "Soul Sucking!" or "Mental Enfeeblement Ray!"*

 

Suddenly SFX are crucial to making a generic mechanic fit... but we are actually asking a very difficult thing. We are asking people to layer Game Rules and Mechanics without properly understanding what they are doing.

 

If we are to define SFX... we have to first state WHERE we are defining them.

 

Game Rule level: These are the SFX in my game. This is how they work. These are the proper ways to simulate them with mechanics.

 

Mechanic Level: These are the accepted SFX of the SYSTEM! Defining your power suite by an SFX has the following MECHANICAL application within the game... then list them out. (I still think this is blurring the line between SFX and Mechanics... but I think this is appropriate to build a better GAME... but will be different for each game. Maybe the mechanic level is to show a list of possible SFX... show examples of how a GM must think through a choose the SFX appropriate for the game... examples of mechanics that can be linked to those SFX, also needing defined by the GM... before opening up character creation to player.)

 

Anyway... that is my initial "BLURRGH" of thought on this matter.

 

 

 

* What just occurred to me is that we need to realize and spotlight the fact that every time a player makes a character and defines something like Energy Blast as "Flame Strike" or "Drain vs. Body" as "Soul Sucking" they have defacto created a game rule that affects everyone in the game. They have defined part of the shared world... and often this goes unexamined in terms of how that effects Play Experience until problems arise. For another thread...

[zornwil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Actually that last paragraph is a great point. As you say, for another thread, but it is an overlooked facet of HERO and a profound one.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I'm sorry, but I find any attempt to categorize or list SFX to be rather repulsive. There are not only as many SFX as there are players, there are as many SFX as there are powers. That is, every power can have SFX that are in some way different from any other power ever built. If you wanted to go into detail, you could even describe the SFX of a plain 3d6 EB in three pages of text without having to add Advantages or Limitations.

 

The only useful thing I have found to do with different SFX game-wise is to qualitatively determine how close the SFX of different powers or definitions are. In the same fashion, you can decide, for example, how much a particular power fits the broad category of, "magic." It is up to the GM whether the amount of overlap is enough to allow powers to fully or partially interact.

 

One example I like to use is this: what if a magical spell is defined as temporarily summoning a sword into being, and that sword is used against a foe who has some kind of, "magic resistance" (i.e. some defense or other Power that is, "Only vs. Magic," whether through a Limitation or inherent restriction such as that found in Adjustment Powers). Now, is the attack magical merely because it is defined as a spell, or is it simply an attack by a sword just like one that was not, "summoned?" Should it be determined based on whether the spell is an HKA or a Summon? I don't think so; that is a matter of mechanics, not SFX, and the two are supposed to be independent. It really has to be a judgement call, IMO.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I'm sorry' date=' but I find any attempt to categorize or list SFX to be rather repulsive. There are not only as many SFX as there are players, there are as many SFX as there are [i']powers[/i]. That is, every power can have SFX that are in some way different from any other power ever built. If you wanted to go into detail, you could even describe the SFX of a plain 3d6 EB in three pages of text without having to add Advantages or Limitations.

 

I see nothing "repulsive" about carefully categorizing SFX. Of course, I don't run superhero campaigns: I run martial arts, sci-fi, cyberpunk, and post-apocalyptic games. In my games, I already know what all the SFX categories are going to be, because I have a complete list of items, weapons, and armor for use in the campaign, and I designed all the SFX myself.

 

In addition, just what exactly is wrong with meta-categorizing SFX? A lot of people hate the idea of "labeling" and "classifying" things, and you seem to be one of those. At the root of that ideaology, though, is a rulebook with nonsense jumble on every page and a character sheet with doodles on it. You HAVE to categorize certain things to be able to measure and control them.

[Grailknight]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I think this issue is being attacked from the wrong side and that's mostly caused by the focus on power defense. IMO, more use of limitations on powers and defenses is necessary than making broad sfx rulings. Most of the defenses have problems with sfx being too broad. For example:

 

PD-works the same vs falling, being struck by fist, crushing or tension with no arguments over special effect.

 

ED-fire, electricity, cold, radiation or magic, no difference.

 

MD- Is the most consistent but only because the sfx of the powers is so tight but an EGO attck defined as a siren's song should be different from a neural disruptor from a mindworm.

 

PowD-The reason for this discussion. Broad sfx Adjustment powers are usually the province of high-end one trick pony types (Rouge, Parasite) are plot device godlike beings that must be outwitted, not out fought. The more common purchase such as all powers of x sfx or should be balanced by DEF only vs that sfx rather than adjusting the power mechanic.

 

FD-Just as bad an offender as PowD. Bright light is not the same as pepper spray or a poke in the eyes. Limit the defenses, so it doesn't work against them all, not the attacks which all do the same thing.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Meta SFX

 

One example I like to use is this: what if a magical spell is defined as temporarily summoning a sword into being' date=' and that sword is used against a foe who has some kind of, "magic resistance" (i.e. some defense or other Power that is, "Only vs. Magic," whether through a Limitation or inherent restriction such as that found in Adjustment Powers). Now, is the attack magical merely because it is defined as a spell, or is it simply an attack by a sword just like one that was not, "summoned?" Should it be determined based on whether the spell is an HKA or a Summon? I don't think so; that is a matter of mechanics, not SFX, and the two are supposed to be independent. It really has to be a judgement call, IMO.[/quote']

 

I understand where you are coming from but the problem a lot of people find with the system is the number of judgement calls that are necessary from the GM.

 

As an experienced HERO player, I'm sure that you are able to do this kind of thing very easily. I know that I am comfortable, in game, in allowing one person's RKA to affect a target and not anothers based simply on SFX.

 

However you are, in effect, running things from an SFX perspective as is being discussed. You are, in principle, with the people that want to see some role for SFX in the mechanical effects of the game. You simply don't want to produce a broad categorisation of SFX.

 

I think that this would be very useful to people coming new to the game. It would make the powers more accessible and less open to results against the common sense of the game being played. Like any other part of the game I think that a confident GM could scrap it and use a wider and more fluid interpretation (as you appear to do).

 

 

Doc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Personally I dont have any issue with powers having multiple SFX and simply apply as many as makes sense.

 

Thus if a character is a mutant fire projector, then Adjustments that affect either mutant or fire powers affect him.

 

Works fine.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Meta SFX

 

* What just occurred to me is that we need to realize and spotlight the fact that every time a player makes a character and defines something like Energy Blast as "Flame Strike" or "Drain vs. Body" as "Soul Sucking" they have defacto created a game rule that affects everyone in the game. They have defined part of the shared world... and often this goes unexamined in terms of how that effects Play Experience until problems arise. For another thread...

Yes, that is a key component of the HERO System Powers -- you buy access to mechanics with points, and instantiate a new version with each Power Construct. HERO Characters are unique self-describing expressions of game mechanics. The computer science background of some of the original creators shows thru in many places.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Meta SFX

 

I understand where you are coming from but the problem a lot of people find with the system is the number of judgement calls that are necessary from the GM.

 

As an experienced HERO player, I'm sure that you are able to do this kind of thing very easily. I know that I am comfortable, in game, in allowing one person's RKA to affect a target and not anothers based simply on SFX.

 

However you are, in effect, running things from an SFX perspective as is being discussed. You are, in principle, with the people that want to see some role for SFX in the mechanical effects of the game. You simply don't want to produce a broad categorisation of SFX.

 

I think that this would be very useful to people coming new to the game. It would make the powers more accessible and less open to results against the common sense of the game being played. Like any other part of the game I think that a confident GM could scrap it and use a wider and more fluid interpretation (as you appear to do).

Sure. If people want to do this kind of thing themselves, I don't see a tremendous problem with it as an optional game simplification. However, I myself would straight abandon the system entirely if it turned into the roleplaying equivalent of Magic the Gathering, so to speak.

[zornwil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Well, the system already discusses SFX extensively and has in fact changed its fundamental premise by (understandably and necessarily) beginning the inclusion directly into the rules with Adjustment Powers. There's already an SFX chart in the system. So I think exploring whether/how we'd want to deal with SFX more directly is a necessary subsequent conversation, even if I agree as to trying to keep that at arms length. Anyway, point is, it's a far cry in determining SFX approach in the system (which requires discussing and classifying SFX) to becoming Magic: The Gathering!

[RDU Neil]

Re: Meta SFX

 

Yes' date=' that is a key component of the HERO System Powers -- you buy access to mechanics with points, and instantiate a new version with each Power Construct. HERO Characters are unique self-describing expressions of game mechanics. The computer science background of some of the original creators shows thru in many places.[/quote']

 

Then what seems to me to be the major issue is that no on is really openly admitting that this is a huge potential problem for Hero.

 

Continuing with the programming metaphor (and understand, I'm not a computer guy and have a general loathing for these things equal to my fascination) if Hero is the language, and the character are the programs... then 99% of the time when individuals build individual programs, those programs are incompatible and can "crash" the systme.

 

i.e. - two characters with differing concepts and interpretations crash the game when they are played together.

 

Sometimes it is easy to see the incompatibility. A 300 pt. Super and a 300 pt. Heroic Fantasy character are clearly incompatible with a slightly knowledgable glance.

 

Oftent he crash comes after a great deal of successful gaming... because a small piece of innocuous code (an unused power construct, say) suddenly comes into play and the whole Play Experience goes to hell.

 

My biggest concern is that with such a focus on SYSTEM in Hero (rather than Game) the likelyhood of game crashes and the difficultly of creating compatible programs (characters and game worlds) increases.

[casualplayer]

Re: Meta SFX

 

This approach would allow you to recost (and reconstruct) Life Support into less of a platypus type of power (love this simile, who deserves credit?). People could buy Power Defense and regular old DEF into conditional only versus Environmental effects or, at a certain level, characters could just be tough enough in general to ignore them. All environmental effects are either damage or Drains. We could ditch the arbitrary sub-rules of Life Support and if you wanted to be able to survive the damaging effects of space or hot lava we could stay within the core rules.