Tracking Acceleration

[Guest Black Lotus]

All right, this is doubtless covered in FRED somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. At least, I'm not seeing it clearly; I have an idea of the way it works, but I'm not quite sure. This is where all of you 20-year veteran know-it-alls come in.

 

OK, I understand that accelerating or decelerating is a Zero Phase Action, and that a character (or vehicle, etc.) can accelerate/ decelerate up to 5" per 1" hex travelled. Thus, a character who decides to accelerate on his Phase is travelling at 5" after moving 1", 10" after moving 2" (if his Combat Velocity allows it), and so on, up to his maximum Combat Velocity per phase. Same with deceleration. Also, even when using noncombat movement, the Combat Velocity per Phase restriction still applies when accelerating or decelerating.

 

HERE's my problem: Move Bys and Move Throughs. Am I supposed to keep track of a character's velocity (speed & direction of travel) in between his Phases? For example, if "Starburst" accelerates to 20" of velocity in Segment 7, and his next Phase is in Segment 12, is he still considered to be moving at a velocity of 20" during Segments 8, 9, 10, and 11, for purposes of altering the damage of a Move By or Through?

 

This is important for Move Bys and Move Throughs. If a character performs a Move Through on someone, it is supposed to be less effective if the target is travelling AWAY from the attacker, and vice versa. The book calls it relative velocity. But how do I determine if the target is moving away from the attacker, and how fast, if one of them does not have a Phase in that Segment?

 

I am GUESSING that you only use relative velocity if BOTH characters have moved during the same Segment -- say, in Segment 8, Ogre accelerates to 10" moving AWAY from Starburst, and later that same Segment, Starburst accelerates to 20" and performs a Move Through on Ogre, but the extra damage from velocity is only 20" - 10" = 10"/3 = 3d6.

 

So... does relative velocity persist BETWEEN Segments -- even if a character does not have a Phase in that Segment -- or are characters considered to be moving at 0" between their Phases?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

I'm not sure if there really is an offical way to call this as much as its up to the GM and his players. as you've noted, it takes movement to both accelerate and decelerate, so it becomes clear only in very short moves. Anything longer than 2/5's total combat movement will be enough to reach full velocity then stop cold. Its usually a judgement call if the player or his actions don't make it clear.

I usually go with "You have velocity if you ended your phase with a move and didn't specify that you were slowing down or stopping"

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

I'm not sure if there really is an offical way to call this as much as its up to the GM and his players. as you've noted, it takes movement to both accelerate and decelerate, so it becomes clear only in very short moves. Anything longer than 2/5's total combat movement will be enough to reach full velocity then stop cold. Its usually a judgement call if the player or his actions don't make it clear.

I usually go with "You have velocity if you ended your phase with a move and didn't specify that you were slowing down or stopping"

 

I'll wait to see what others post before making a final decision on this, but your solution sounds reasonable.

 

The subject IS especially important to me, though, as I will be running a Sci-Fi campaign eventually, and ramming actions between starships and air vehicles might be more common than not.

 

I suppose if someone consistently moves at their full inches of movement, I'll assume that they are moving at full acceleration, and I'll just keep track of character facing... wait, I do that anyway.

 

In the case of starships, I'd have to assume that their velocity still carries over between Segments even when the ship has no Phase in that segment, for purposes of ramming and the like, so I will keep more careful track of ship velocities.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

HERE's my problem: Move Bys and Move Throughs. Am I supposed to keep track of a character's velocity (speed & direction of travel) in between his Phases? For example' date=' if "Starburst" accelerates to 20" of velocity in Segment 7, and his next Phase is in Segment 12, is he still considered to be moving at a velocity of 20" during Segments 8, 9, 10, and 11, for purposes of altering the damage of a Move By or Through?[/quote']

 

I'm not aware of any official clarification on this matter, but here's how I've been doing it:

 

Let's play with Todd, who has a SPD of 4 and 16" Running.

 

Todd stats his Segment 12 Phase standing still. He decides to make a 1/2 move, and Run 8" around a corner to cover. He accelterates to 5"/Phase in the first hex, then to 10"/Phase in the second, 15" in the third and his max 16" in the forth. Then he starts to slow down, 11" in the 5th hex, 6" in the 6th, 1" in the 4th and finally 0" when he stops in the 8th hex. Then he performs an attack using his EB from behind the cover of the corner.

 

On Segment 3, Todd realized that he's not the only one behind cover, and decides he needs to rush out there to kick some but in HTH is he's gonna get things done. He sees a guy about 8" away, and some boxes behind him he mind take cover behind. So he performs a Move By. As predicted, he's up to his full 16" by the time he reaches his target, but the boxes are a full 20" away. He's gonna go full speed without stopping to get there, so after knocking the guy upside the head, he ends his Phase 4" away from the boxes, with 16" of velocity in that direction. On Segment 4, some goon he didn't see rushes out from behind those boxes and performs a Martial Throw on poor Todd. We know Todd has 16" if velocity, so he takes an extra 3d6 damage if he's hit. Fortunately, the goon has bad aim. Lucky he's not hit by anyone else, Todd continues to run toward the boxes; but first he's gonna thwack this good who tried to trip him up. Already moving at 16" and having the goon already adjacent makes this easy for him, so he gets the extra dice without having to move. Then he runs past, slowing down so he can stop behind the boxes. Being 4" away, he has just enough room to come to a complete stop when he gets there.

 

I can see now that was kinds long for an example, but I hoped it helped. Ask if you need more info.

[Vondy]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

There is a rapid combat acceleration mod in one of the books, IIRC.

 

I've never tracked combat acceleration. I let people go from zero to max combat movement (presuming max isn't absolutely insane) out of the starting gate. I do, however, track non-combat acceleration.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Todd stats his Segment 12 Phase standing still. He decides to make a 1/2 move, and Run 8" around a corner to cover. He accelterates to 5"/Phase in the first hex, then to 10"/Phase in the second, 15" in the third and his max 16" in the forth. Then he starts to slow down, 11" in the 5th hex, 6" in the 6th, 1" in the 4th and finally 0" when he stops in the 8th hex. Then he performs an attack using his EB from behind the cover of the corner.

 

On Segment 3, Todd realized that he's not the only one behind cover, and decides he needs to rush out there to kick some but in HTH is he's gonna get things done. He sees a guy about 8" away, and some boxes behind him he mind take cover behind. So he performs a Move By. As predicted, he's up to his full 16" by the time he reaches his target, but the boxes are a full 20" away. He's gonna go full speed without stopping to get there, so after knocking the guy upside the head, he ends his Phase 4" away from the boxes, with 16" of velocity in that direction. On Segment 4, some goon he didn't see rushes out from behind those boxes and performs a Martial Throw on poor Todd. We know Todd has 16" if velocity, so he takes an extra 3d6 damage if he's hit. Fortunately, the goon has bad aim. Lucky he's not hit by anyone else, Todd continues to run toward the boxes; but first he's gonna thwack this good who tried to trip him up. Already moving at 16" and having the goon already adjacent makes this easy for him, so he gets the extra dice without having to move. Then he runs past, slowing down so he can stop behind the boxes. Being 4" away, he has just enough room to come to a complete stop when he gets there.

 

I can see now that was kinds long for an example, but I hoped it helped. Ask if you need more info.

 

No, feel free to provide as long an example as you want. That's you performing a service for me, no need to apologize. ;D

 

OK, according to 5ER, pg. 364:

 

"Adding or removing velocity is a Zero Phase Action, but characters can only do it once per Phase, unless the GM rules otherwise."

 

And of course, Zero Phase Actions can only be performed at the beginning of a Phase and/ or after a Half Phase Action.

 

SO, if I interpret "Only once per phase" as meaning "you may accelerate AND decelerate once each per Phase, if possible (if you only do a half move)", your example seems to work fine.

 

Good! Much better.

 

Also thanks to Von D-Man for his input, I'll check that book out.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

I've always interpreted it as people maintaing their velocity while they have no phases beacuse it makes combat seem more "fluid" instead of segmented

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

*takes a deep breath*

 

You know, decelerating after you've used a Zero Phase Action to accelerate would mean taking a second Zero Phase Action during your move. And obviously, it does no good to use a Zero Phase Action after a half-move to accelerate or decelerate, since you've already used your inches of movement.

 

And of course, if you perform a full move, you may only either accelerate or decelerate.

 

This is AFAICT according to the rules.

 

Oh man, I'm confused again.

 

The book says accelerating or decelerating is an action, but obviously choosing to move 10" automatically causes you to accelerate -- you have no choice. So if your Combat Speed is Running 10", and you start at 0" velocity, and accelerate to 10" and end your turn without decelerating, you're still moving at 10"... so it takes 2" at the beginning of your next move if you want to slow down... BUT since you can only really decelerate at the beginning of a half-move according to the rules, you can't move more than 2" during that move. Because you have to take your Zero Phase Action right before the move, and then....

 

Oh my. I guess you have to allow characters to accelerate and decelerate once each per Phase if they want, at any time during their movement, right? Just not an acceleration, then deceleration, then another acceleration, right?

 

S.O.S. Logic circuits failing, need expert advice fast, does not compute. *beep-beep-boop-boop*

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

You see...this is why we like newer playes who actually get in and crunch on the mechanics...

Sometimes one will come up with a straight by the book interpretation that us old farts never considered.

 

Nice catch BL, and I don't have an answer for you.

 

maybe later.

After Coffee.

 

speaking of which...'tis time to put milk to espresso.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

You see...this is why we like newer playes who actually get in and crunch on the mechanics...

Sometimes one will come up with a straight by the book interpretation that us old farts never considered.

 

Nice catch BL, and I don't have an answer for you.

 

maybe later.

After Coffee.

 

speaking of which...'tis time to put milk to espresso.

 

If this ends with none of the more experienced GMs being able to give a definitive answer -- and I think it might -- would it be a good idea to pose these questions to Steve in the "Game Rule Questions" board?

[Vondy]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

If this ends with none of the more experienced GMs being able to give a definitive answer -- and I think it might -- would it be a good idea to pose these questions to Steve in the "Game Rule Questions" board?

 

I think your over-reading the text. This is a common problem among the toseftas (french and spanish rabbis from the 13th - 14th century) who were talmudic commentators. The text reads one way, but you could theoretically read it another way...

 

When they say acceleration and deceleration is a zero phase action they don't mean it happens before or after the movement - it happens in conjunction with the movement. They mean it doesn't cost you a half or full phase action to do it. That's all it means.

 

You can do one of the following:

 

1) accelerate however much they are able (includes X movement)

2) maintain velocity

3) decelerate however much they are able (includes X movement)

 

Well, lets say you take a full move and then declare you are taking a zero phase action to decelerate. It won't mean anything until your next movement phase. You've already moved. All it means is that you already decided you would slow down on your next phase. The opposite is true of declaring you are taking a zero phase action to accelerate at the end of your turn. On your next phase you'll accelerate. It doesn't matter until your next phase. And then, you could just take a zero phase action to change your mind in your next phase without so much as blinking.

 

In other words, the only zero phase velocity change that matters is the one you make before taking a movment action. Goody if you took one afterwards, but why bother? If you don't move you don't accelerate (no matter what you said in your zero phase action) If you are moving you have to keep moving unless you have enough deceleration to come to a stop. Its all good.

 

On the other hand, if we're this worried about velocity, acceleration, and deceleration, how can I declare a half-move and attack when I'm travelling at full velocity? Shouldn't I have to take a full move and end my turn (unless I have rapid attack and accept a crappy DCV, or do a move by or through and accept OCV penalties)? It seems like a more difficult question.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Velocity only matters if you're running into something or accelerating noncombat.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Velocity only matters if you're running into something or accelerating noncombat.

 

Indeed, Chirs, but the relative velocity of the target of a Move Through factors in to the extra damage done by the character performing a Move Through. Therefore, it is important to know how fast a target is travelling as WELL as how fast YOu are travelling, even if the target has no Phase in that Segment.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

On the other hand' date=' if we're this worried about velocity, acceleration, and deceleration, how can I declare a half-move and attack when I'm travelling at full velocity? Shouldn't I have to take a full move and end my turn (unless I have rapid attack and accept a crappy DCV, or do a move by or through and accept OCV penalties)? It seems like a more difficult question.[/quote']

 

I'm worried about velocity as it pertains to a Move By or Move Through. It's all well and good to track the velocity of an attacker performing a Move Through: if someone has Running 6", they accelerate to 5" after moving one hex, and their full 6" after moving two hexes; they keep this 6" velocity until they reach their target, at which point they gain (6"/ 3 =) 2d6 extra dice of damage for the attack.

 

However, 5ER clearly states that the velocity of the target of a Move Through ALSO affects the damage gained by performing a Move Through. That's my problem, how do I know the relative velocity of the target? In other words, if the target is moving away from the attacker at a velocity of 3", then actually the extra dice for Move Through are equal to ((6" - 3")/ 3) = 1d6 extra damage. How am I supposed to keep track of this between the target's Phases? Does velocity apply in between a character's phases?

 

Here's the other thing: let's say "Bob", who has 6" Running, performs a Half Move, and moves 3". Since he can supposedly accelerate to 6" within two hexes, is he moving at 6" velocity even though he only moved 3"? Or is he restricted to a velocity that matches the total number of inches of movement performed in the turn?

 

ANOTHER thing: if a character can move 6", accelerating to a velocity of 6" within the first two inches and decelerating to a velocity of 0" within the last two inches, can he just accelerate to 6" and keep that velocity for his entire move? Or, if a character makes a 6" move, is he automatically going 6" until he moves fewer inches?

 

Oh Christ, my brain is going to blow.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

I can tell already... this question is going to be a real toughie. Since no one has a solid answer -- and I do not blame you at all -- I'll put this out for your consideration.

 

I'm not going to use the official acceleration/ deceleration rules as they are, then. Instead, I'll do it this way:

 

When entering combat, a character who has not yet acted is considered to be motionless, moving at 0", unless the events leading up to the combat dictate otherwise.

 

If a character moves, say, 6", his total acceleration for that Phase is 6". He can't accelerate to 6" then decelerate to 0" in a single Phase because his velocity is still based on the total number of inches moved that Phase. So, if a character only moves 3" in a phase, his total acceleration is 3". If he moves 4" in a phase, his total acceleration is 4". If he moves 15" in a Phase, his total acceleration is 15". Of course, velocity at a certain POINT along his path is still determined on a "5" per inch" basis when decelerating or starting from a standstill.

 

Now, this "total velocity" carries over during the Segments between a character's Phases, as well. So if a character who moved 6" in Segment 7 has another Phase in Segment 10, his velocity in Phases 8 and 9 is considered to be 6" (for purposes of collisions and the like). Also, at the beginning of his next Phase, he is considered to still be moving at a velocity of 6". Therefore, he couldn't decide to stand still on that Phase; he has to move AT LEAST two hexes to slow to a complete halt. So, if a character is going 6" at the beginning of his Phase, he can't decide to move at any velocity from 0" to 6"; he can only choose a velocity between 2" to 6".

 

Also, by this system (and really byt the book, too) a character going at ANY velocity must move at least 1" before he can become motionless.

 

In other words, you can only "Shift Gears" so far in a single Phase. If you want to run up to a character and come to a stop so you can fight him, you have to start decelerating before you reach him. If you move 6" and end up right beside your opponent, you may attack that Phase; but on your next Phase, you're still moving 6", so you'd kind of have to dance around him for two hexes to get down to 0" of velocity. If you choose only to move 4" toward your opponent in this Phase, then on your next Phase decelerate to 0" in the two more hexes it takes you to get to him, you may come up to him at a standstill.

 

This is the only way I can think of to do it that treats velocity properly. It may seem different to HERO players who haven't been wrrying about it too much, but at least this method keeps velocity solid and consistent for all combatants from Segment to Segment.

 

I know I was probably unclear in some areas, but what do you think?

[Kristopher]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Velocity only matters if you're running into something or accelerating noncombat.

 

It mattered to me when I played a flying energy projector who prefered to take a lot of backshots at his opponents.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

All right, I whipped up a quick illustration, included with this post.

 

In example A, a character with a starting velocity of 0" decides to move a total of 6" during his Phase. The green line shows his acceleration at each hex through which he moves, and he ends his Phase with a velocity of 6", as well.

 

In example B and C, we are working with the same principle as in example A, but instead of deciding to move 6" in his Phase, the character moves only 5" or 4", instead.

 

Thus in examples A, B and C we see that the total hexes moved in a Phase affect a character's total velocity for that Phase.

 

In example D, the character starts the Phase at 6" velocity, and slows down to 0" velocity. In example E, the character starts the Phase at 3" velocity, and decelerates to 0".

 

EDIT: I didn't illustrate this, but a character can also, of course, decelerate from a higher velocity to a lower one, without stopping altogether. So if you moved 6" last Phase, but you want to move 4" this Phase, you just plot your 4" course out, RE-EDIT: and in your first inch of movement, you decelerate 2". Same for moving from a lower velocity to a higher one: if at the beginning of a Phase you are moving at 3", and you want to accelerate to 6", you just plot out your 6" course; in the first hex you move through, your velocity becomes 6".

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Well, I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this subject by now, but I believe I have it figured out.

 

Accelerating or decelerating are, indeed, Zero Phase Actions, and you may only declare one or the other at the beginning of your Phase. You may not accelerate or decelerate in the middle of your Half Move or Full Move, nor afterwards; you have to choose one or the other before you move.

 

For example, let's say you begin your phase at a velocity of 0". If you want move a total of six hexes, you must plot your course and accelerate accordingly. So, when you move the first hex, your velocity is 5". When you move into the second hex, your velocity is 6". Of course, for each of the remaining four hexes you move, you will also have a velocity of 6".

 

Now let's say that your Combat Movement is 6", your velocity at the beginning of this Phase is 0", and you only want to move four hexes. When you move into the first hex, your velocity is 4", and ditto for each of the three remaining hexes you will be moving.

 

Now say you're already moving at a velocity of 2" at the beginning of a Phase, and you want to accelerate to 6". Simply declare it, then when you move the first hex, your velocity becomes 6", and is 6" for each of the five hexes thereafter.

 

Now let's say your velocity at the beginning of this Phase is 6", and you wish to stop dead. You declare it at the beginning of your Phase. When you move into your first hex, your velocity is 1", and SINCE YOU ALREADY MOVED 1" THIS PHASE, you get to stop. (However, if you want to truly drop to 0", you must move one more hex next Phase, OR two hexes this Phase.)

 

If your velocity is 6" at the beginning of a Phase, and you wish to decelerate to 2", declare it at the beginning of your Phase. When you move into your first hex, your velocity is now 2", and you may move one more hex because your velocity is 2".

 

If someone does not understand, I will be happy to discuss it over a messenger program. I know it sounds complicated, but once you GET it, it really clicks and feels exactly right. It's one of those things.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

It mattered to me when I played a flying energy projector who prefered to take a lot of backshots at his opponents.

 

I'm not sure I understand you.

 

Your inches of movement matter a lot. Having enough inches of movement to get behind your targets matters greatly when taking backshots at them. But your velocity at any point in your movement matters not at all, unless you're running into something or accelerating noncombat. Black Lotus, when you earlier pointed out to me that it matters during a Move Through, you're agreeing with me.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

I'm not sure I understand you.

 

Your inches of movement matter a lot. Having enough inches of movement to get behind your targets matters greatly when taking backshots at them. But your velocity at any point in your movement matters not at all, unless you're running into something or accelerating noncombat. Black Lotus, when you earlier pointed out to me that it matters during a Move Through, you're agreeing with me.

 

Yes, but it also matters for slowing down to get to your target. If you're moving at 6", you can't just stop dead once you get where you're going. You have to slow down.

 

In other words, say Skeletor is 6" away. He-Man uses all 6" of his Combat Movement for a Full Move and ends his Phase. At the beginning of his next Phase, He-Man is still moving at 6". Therefore he MUST use a half-move, because he MUSt have two hexes of movement to slow down.

 

It's ALWAYS important. If you've been allowing characters who moved 15" last Phase to move 0" the next Phase, you need to re-examine the way you play.

 

The key is: the character's TOTAL Velocity is based on how many total inches he moves in a Phase. So if I only move 2", my Velocity does not become 5" when I move one hex, it becomes 2" and stays there.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Yes, but it also matters for slowing down to get to your target. If you're moving at 6", you can't just stop dead once you get where you're going. You have to slow down.

 

In other words, say Skeletor is 6" away. He-Man uses all 6" of his Combat Movement for a Full Move and ends his Phase. At the beginning of his next Phase, He-Man is still moving at 6". Therefore he MUST use a half-move, because he MUSt have two hexes of movement to slow down.

 

It's ALWAYS important. If you've been allowing characters who moved 15" last Phase to move 0" the next Phase, you need to re-examine the way you play.

 

The key is: the character's TOTAL Velocity is based on how many total inches he moves in a Phase. So if I only move 2", my Velocity does not become 5" when I move one hex, it becomes 2" and stays there.

 

Actually, what you are describing is an example of a perfectly valid House-Rule but is not part of core-HERO rules.

 

Steve Long has previously ruled that a character with X" of combat movement does NOT have to worry about deceleration on following phases regardless of what % of his combat movement was used. Non-Combat movement is a different story however...

 

HM

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Actually' date=' what you are describing is an example of a perfectly valid House-Rule but is not part of core-HERO rules.

 

Steve Long has previously ruled that a character with X" of combat movement does NOT have to worry about deceleration on following phases regardless of what % of his combat movement was used. Non-Combat movement is a different story however...

 

HM

 

If that is the official ruling, how then am I supposed to determine a target's velocity when a character performs a Move Through on them? To properly calculate the extra damage done by using a Move through maneuver, you must know the speed and direction (velocity) of both the attacker and the attacked.

 

If a target's velocity automatically resets to 0 after his Phase, what's the point of factoring in the target's velocity at all?

 

In other words, if it's not a character's Phase, he's considered to be moving 0", right? So unless I perform a Move Through against a trget during the SAME PHASE he ALSO moves, the "relative velocity" rule doesn't apply.

 

That's mighty odd, I have to say.

 

And what about a character with Flight 40"? He can just stop dead at the beginning of his next Phase if he flew 40" last Phase?

 

Wow. Also, if what you say is true, when does a character ever need to decelerate during combat? I mean, what, if they decide to use say, their 30" of Running as a Full Move, they can decelerate to 0" as part of their move? In the middle? At the end?

 

Or do you automatically accelerate when beginning your move, and then automatically decelerate when ending your move? I guess that's possible, but then it invalidates any velocity ever being used against a target. Because when you Move Through someone who just moved toward you, he'll already have decelerated EVEN THOUGH HE GOT TO MOVE, SAY, 10".

 

It may be easier to do it Steve's way... but it makes a mockery of many of the embedded functions of Move By, Move Through, and the like. In fact, 5ER gives an example where a guy is running through a building from some pursuers, but doesn't want to slow down -- so he smashes in the door. If he could just stop at the end of every Phase... *shrug*

 

Do you have a link to the official ruling on this issue? I would like to copy it for reference.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

If that is the official ruling, how then am I supposed to determine a target's velocity when a character performs a Move Through on them? To properly calculate the extra damage done by using a Move through maneuver, you must know the speed and direction (velocity) of both the attacker and the attacked.

 

If a target's velocity automatically resets to 0 after his Phase, what's the point of factoring in the target's velocity at all?

 

In other words, if it's not a character's Phase, he's considered to be moving 0", right? So unless I perform a Move Through against a trget during the SAME PHASE he ALSO moves, the "relative velocity" rule doesn't apply.

 

That's mighty odd, I have to say.

 

And what about a character with Flight 40"? He can just stop dead at the beginning of his next Phase if he flew 40" last Phase?

 

Wow. Also, if what you say is true, when does a character ever need to decelerate during combat? I mean, what, if they decide to use say, their 30" of Running as a Full Move, they can decelerate to 0" as part of their move? In the middle? At the end?

 

Or do you automatically accelerate when beginning your move, and then automatically decelerate when ending your move? I guess that's possible, but then it invalidates any velocity ever being used against a target. Because when you Move Through someone who just moved toward you, he'll already have decelerated EVEN THOUGH HE GOT TO MOVE, SAY, 10".

 

It may be easier to do it Steve's way... but it makes a mockery of many of the embedded functions of Move By, Move Through, and the like. In fact, 5ER gives an example where a guy is running through a building from some pursuers, but doesn't want to slow down -- so he smashes in the door. If he could just stop at the end of every Phase... *shrug*

 

Do you have a link to the official ruling on this issue? I would like to copy it for reference.

 

see: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32365&highlight=movement+velocity

 

I don't think it's a problem dealing with 2 characters moving as long as both occur on the same phase. Example: Depending on the distances involved I would allow the lower DEX character to react before the higher DEX character's movethrough hit (this is essentially a 'house ruling' on my part though). Realism and Playability are always going to be at odds in this regard. The best answer is to do what works for you and your players.

 

HM

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Thanks for your input, all. Good news, though -- I've found an alternative!

 

I was about to give up on the Velocity thing -- since, unfortunately, it is inherently flawed (which is fine, any game movement mechanic that has to take turn-based game play into account is, although I was more confused by HERO's system than most others.)

 

However! I found a great house rule system by John Kim on the Web. Here are some good points he brings up:

 

-- Move-Through and Move-By damage can be abusive to game balance. For example, a STR 50 character with 26'' of Running can do 19d6 damage with a move-through, even though each power is only 40 active points.

 

-- Damage due to non-combat velocity move-throughs is rather unbelievable when compared to other attacks. For example, a Cadillac going at only 30 MPH does 20d6, which is more DC's than a howitzer!

 

-- The damage is based on a game artifact of inches per phase, rather than on velocity in real-world terms like MPH. For example, two vehicles of the same mass are moving at the same speed in MPH. The less maneuverable one (i.e. lower SPD) does much greater damage, because it has more inches per phase.

 

-- Throwing doesn't scale right for high strength. For example, a character can lift a tank (55 STR) and move at supersonic speeds, but with a standing throw he cannot throw a football the length of a football field (100 meters).

 

You can find John's excellent house rule article here. Thanks, John! You saved my brain!

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Tracking Acceleration

 

Hee! Looks like a small portion of the Velocity Factor house rules by John Kim ended up in 5ER on pg. 436! Only for calculating damage from Move Bys or Move Throughs, though. The rest of the House Rules were a partial overhaul of Movement Powers in general, so I suppose it got left out.

 

Way to go, John Kim!