Shrinking Issues

[Vondy]

*poof*

[MitchellS]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

There's a whole chapter on shrinking in Villainy Amok. It has some good ideas. I think it covers some of your damage issues as well, IIRC.

[Vondy]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

*poof*

[MitchellS]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

I'm sorry, but it seems to be standard board policy to not give out information that is available in printed books. I'd also consider your question to not be a "core rules question" because it's dealing with an option idea of decreasing movement and strength with shrinking. That is not part of the core rules.

 

But let's just say that shrinking characters effect each other normally, and that any variances are adjusted for based on their proportional sizes to each other.

[Vondy]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

*poof*

[schir1964]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

I worked with some people here and came up with a new way to handle combat with character's of differing sizes that is more consistent and makes more sense. I can email you that document if you want.

 

Just email me directly at schir1964 @ netzero.com address.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[MitchellS]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

I didn't ask for quotes from published materials. I didn't even know it was convered in a supplement. And since the closest gaming store is in europe' date=' I'm not just going to jaunt over to the local gaming store to check it out. I asked for people's ideas on how to handle it. [i']They're ideas.[/i]

Then jaunt on over to the online store and buy the pdf. Problem solved.

 

Yes, decreasing movement and strength as a part of shrinking is in the core rules. 5ER P 219 recommends giving any characteristic reduced by shrinking a -1/4 limitation and ALSO mentions that you could define a loss of characteristics as required side effect for shrinking on P 307. The concept is presented in the core rules in two distinct instances. What it doesn't mention is what to do when that same power has usable against others (also in the core rules book and not an option, incidentally) tacked onto it as well. If I have a question or problem that arises from something called out in the main rulebook its a core rules issue.

 

But lets assume you're right and no option included in the core rules book should be considered a core rules issue: Lets focus on two 0 strength characters duking it out. I have two characters built according to the explicit mainstream rules using the recommended shrinking templates in the back of 5ER. They both do 0d6 Hand to Hand Damage. They've got nerf fists. It sounds like a core rules issue to me. What the hell do I do?

And again, people on these boards shy away from giving out information that is contained in a published book. I'm sorry if you didn't like that answer but I have seen it given dozens of times by many different people since I've been on the boards. I guess we're all a little over-protective of Hero during it's crisis period.

[incrdbil]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

For the shrinking gun:

 

Multipower--one slot is shrinking on yourself with side effects, with the understanding the side effects don't kick in against attributes/powers used against other characters shrunk to a similar size.

 

Another slot, shrinking usable against other, inanimate objects.

 

Final slot--transformation attack--target to shrunk version with whatever description you want said shrunk person to deal with as a disadvantage, so the effect you want is just that, without going into a really complicated rules build of shrink plus suppress this/that and the other.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

I would just build it based on the most expensive application, that being shrinking your enemies. Then Link the Shrinking to the ill effects, and you can't use it on yourself without the bad stuff. Nice and simple.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

IMO, an offensive shrinking gun should not be purchased with the Shrinking Power at all. Shrinking (the Power in the book) is a Power, it provides a real benefit (increased DCV and harder to see, plus growth momentum). Why would you want to give a beneficial power to someone you're trying to attack? The attack should be built as a Drain/Suppress of STR and Movement (and perhaps other Characteristics or Powers), and the reduced size of the target is nothing more than the SFX of the Power. Yes, this can get expensive with the delayed return rate, etc. If it gets sufficiently expensive, you can buy the attack as a Transform: People into Inch High People (or 1/64 their normal size and -30 STR, and effectively 1/64 of their nrmal movement rate).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

IMO' date=' an offensive shrinking gun should not be purchased with the Shrinking Power at all. Shrinking (the Power in the book) is a Power, it provides a real benefit (increased DCV and harder to see, plus growth momentum). Why would you want to give a beneficial power to someone you're trying to attack? The attack should be built as a Drain/Suppress of STR and Movement (and perhaps other Characteristics or Powers), and the reduced size of the target is nothing more than the SFX of the Power. Yes, this can get expensive with the delayed return rate, etc. If it gets sufficiently expensive, you can buy the attack as a Transform: People into Inch High People (or 1/64 their normal size and -30 STR, and effectively 1/64 of their nrmal movement rate).[/quote']

Hah! How about this one: as an attack, the Drains, etc., are the things that should be paid for, and the Shrinking should in fact be the Side Effect, as it hinders you by giving the enemy something beneficial (increased DCV, etc.). The only thing that is questionable--hard to build as an attack and not justifiable as a benefit to the target--is the increased Knockback. I suppose you could call it Usable as Attack Flight, Drain or Suppress to Knockback Resistance, a Triggered attack, etc., but these don't feel all that wonderful.

 

In that light, a Multipower sounds like the right approach: one slot where the Shrinking is the Power and the rest are the Side Effects, and one slot where the Drains and stuff are the Powers and the Shrinking is the Side Effect.

[Guest darthvegita666]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

xtradimensional movement to a small world

[incrdbil]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

xtradimensional movement to a small world

 

The Disneyverse. It's a small world, after all.....::sings::

[zornwil]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

I worked with some people here and came up with a new way to handle combat with character's of differing sizes that is more consistent and makes more sense. I can email you that document if you want.

 

Just email me directly at schir1964 @ netzero.com address.

 

- Christopher Mullins

Would you mind emailing me as well? Just curious, really, though, so if it's a pain for some reason make it a low priority or don't bother.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

IMO' date=' an offensive shrinking gun should not be purchased with the Shrinking Power at all. Shrinking (the Power in the book) is a Power, it provides a real benefit (increased DCV and harder to see, plus growth momentum). Why would you want to give a beneficial power to someone you're trying to attack? The attack should be built as a Drain/Suppress of STR and Movement (and perhaps other Characteristics or Powers), and the reduced size of the target is nothing more than the SFX of the Power. Yes, this can get expensive with the delayed return rate, etc. If it gets sufficiently expensive, you can buy the attack as a Transform: People into Inch High People (or 1/64 their normal size and -30 STR, and effectively 1/64 of their nrmal movement rate).[/quote']

 

[ME TOO]

Personally, I favor this approach. Using powers that give benefits as attacks has always struck me as just plain weird. However, if you absolutely, positively, just have to actually change their physical size, it's a Transformation Attack.

[/ME TOO]

[zornwil]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

Although, I would add, there are rules under Transformation Attack regarding beneficial effects/granting of powers.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

Consider making a Custom Power based on the cost of Suppressing all the things you think should be lessened by a Shrinking Ray.

 

Determine the base increment and the cost for that, and then progress it across the Shrinking size chart. Be careful to match up things with specific increment effects, like STR, appropriately with the size categories.

 

Call it Miniaturization, wrap some flavor text around it, and you're set.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

As a side note, all of the Body Affecting power have this problem when trying to use them as an Attack. It's one of the areas of the system that could benefit from some new Base Powers.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

Does anyone remember a Saturday morning show from the mid-seventies called "Doctor Shrinker"? An evil mad scientist shrinks down some meddling kids who learn to survive at their new size and escape from Dr. S's weekly schemes to recapture them.

 

Theme Song Lyrics: "Doctor Shrinker, Doctor Shrinker, he's a madman with an evil mind. Doctor Shrinker, Doctor Shrinker, he's as crazy as you'll ever find."

 

Or did I halucinate the whole thing?

[keithcurtis]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

Dr. Shrinker was a segment on Sid and Marty Kroft's "Kroft Supershow", which included other treasures like "Wonderbug" and "Electrowoman and Dynagirl"

 

Keith "Where's my cereal?" Curtis

[John Desmarais]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

... and "Electrowoman and Dynagirl"

 

Ah.... Deidre Hall & Judy Strangis in spandex. Key point in my adolecence.

 

Groovy.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Shrinking Issues

 

Yes! Those were good too. Wonderbug came up in conversation recently.

 

"When you hear the horn, help is on the way.

Clap your hands. Shout 'Hooray!'

For the Wonderbug, Wonderbug, Wonderbuuuuuug!"

 

A great idea for a superhero game. For those of you who don't know, Wonderbug was a superhero-car. In its secret identity, it was a rusty old junk convertable.

 

All right all you HERO-folks! I want to see a write-up of Wonderbug! (But not on this thread, it's way off topic. Sorry.)