Three or more Eyes

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Fox1' date=' being a sarcastic toward people with differing views doesn't make you right. It only lessens you and your opinions in other's eyes. Try to keep that in mind.[/quote']

 

I'm soooo heart broken.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

if you have 3 eyes but 50% of the population has 3rd eyes, then it's not distinctive, i agree with Fox1 that the GM has to rule on this one.

[MitchellS]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

if you have 3 eyes but 50% of the population has 3rd eyes' date=' then it's not distinctive, i agree with Fox1 that the GM has to rule on this one.[/quote']

Of course it has to be decided by the GM. The point is the rules don't disallow it as Fox1 says.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

right. The rules let the GM decide if it's worth points or not. In one game i'm helping run, we have to submit all our disads for value, and the GM tells us the value based on how likely they are to come up.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Of course it has to be decided by the GM. The point is the rules don't disallow it as Fox1 says.

 

Please don't make stuff up.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I read in a book once where there were creatures with three eyes. They explained that in order to see three dimensions one needs two eyes, so in order to see four dimensions one needs three eyes. The reason why we couldn't see those creatures was based off of the "Flat Land" concept that a two dimensional creature would have trouble conceptualizing a three dimensional creature. Therefore by extrapolation a three dimensional creature would have trouble conceptualizing a four dimensional creature.

 

So, getting off of tangent. A possible power that a three eyed individual might have is to see four dimensionally. Time has been called the fourth dimension, but the GM can choose to call the fourth dimension the higher (or lower) planes if he/she wishes (i.e. something out of "The Mystic World").

 

---Blue Rose

I don't buy it, but it's a cute idea. Maybe justification for a mystic type to have arachnophobia...

 

"They spy on us for their extradimensional overlords!"

 

My two cents - I'd say the lineup thing is more likely to come up than someone poking you in the eye with a stick, regardless of genre. I've never been in a game where someone lost an eye, myself. Well, unintentionally (yes, Eye of Vecna). If he can take the implant out, it's Easily Concealable, so I'd give it a net cost of zero. If he can't take it out, maybe a 5 point DF unless lots of people get that same kind of implant. If it gives him bonuses or Flash Defense, add that in. Of course, if it doesn't really give him abilities, why did he get it in the first place? Are there a lot of pointy stick wielding gangs in the city, or is he on a quest for Vecna's 80,000 year old tomb?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

i like it, then with no eyes you see in 1 dimension

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

if having a third eye makes you the target of instant death on site I'd give you even more points than 5 for it. It is entirely based on GM decision wether or not it is a limitation and how much it is worth.

 

If it's common then it would probubly just be special effect.

 

If looking odd can get you killed or hinder you then why not give them points. It's not like 5 points will break the game.

 

I give characters points in my game for being Albino when their species usually isn't. That's not a huge life threatening disadvantage. But it sure does warrent distinctive features.

 

Remember that the first rule to this system is to forget the rules if you have to to have fun.

 

So honestly, there is nothing that is prohibited, other than by GM decision. Some things are just not normally allowed in a "by the book" game.

[Mister E]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I have three eyes, and it's a bitch... let me tell you.

[nexus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I actually think everyone is basically saying the same thing. Three eyes will be a variable amount of disadvantages points from 0 on up, depending on the campaign world.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I actually think everyone is basically saying the same thing. Three eyes will be a variable amount of disadvantages points from 0 on up' date=' depending on the campaign world.[/quote']

 

yepperz. bingo.

[Mister E]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

i like it' date=' then with no eyes you see in 1 dimension[/quote']Whoa... That's deep.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Of course, a strictly two-dimesnional creature would have no mass. Every physical object must have three dimensions -- no matter how minute one of those dimensions is -- or it doesn't exist. For example, the area of a cube is Length x Width x Depth. So, a cube that is 20 cm on a side has an area of 800 cm³. A cube with one side measuring 20 cm, another side measuring 20 cm, and a final side measuring 0 cm has an area of (20 x 20 x 0) = 0 cm³. All physical objects have three dimensions. Two dimensionality is an "irrational" concept; it can be understood, but true two dimensionality does not exist in real physics.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Here we go again...

 

That's the rule given in the book. I'm sorry if noting that has ruined your day and forced you into making wild claims counter to rules and concerning campaigns you don't even play in.

 

The point is the rules don't disallow it as Fox1 says.

 

Please don't make stuff up.

 

Also amusing:

 

For all we know' date=' it may be no more of a issue than having red hair. [/quote']

 

when

Distinctive Features could be such things as bright red hair' date=' a facial scar, unusual height (large or small), a peculiar walk, a strange voice"[/quote'] Emphasis mine

 

Maybe I hang with a different crowd than Fox1, but I think a third eye is considerably more disctinctive than any of the examples above.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I think what you've marked here is what most of the rest of us have decided...but thanks for using a little more ompf

[Dr Divago]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

The answer to that is campaign specific and a GM's call.

Okay i think this is the point:

in "A Far Far Away Galaxy" having three eyes is not more distinctive than having blu skin, four arms, huge blob-like body or similar, but is distinctive to wear a lightsaber or a "kimono-like" vestment

in Cycloplandia having two eyes is very distinctive

 

Now in this specific (my cyberpunk campaign): having three eyes is distinctive, but also having a chromed cyberarm, two rabbit ears, scaly skin or flashing jacket with Illumipanel inside. So is so distinctive that, i suppose, is not distinctive (all are distinctive, so having three eyes is not more distinctive than in-modern-day wearing sunglasses or leather jacket...)

 

Advantages? well, nobody install third eye only to say "ehi i'm an indian goddes" (well, i know some people that will be glad to install it for this reason... but this is another question...)

Installing Tricloptics is only to have a third cyberoptic (defined like a VPP 30+15 with some implanted optional inside). But my question is: i will give other advantage? (some FD 'cause three eyese are less susceptible to blinding, accurate range detection 'cause three eyes makes binocular vision more accurate, etc.?)

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I actually think everyone is basically saying the same thing. Three eyes will be a variable amount of disadvantages points from 0 on up' date=' depending on the campaign world.[/quote']

 

That's certainly been my view since the start.

 

There are a couple here however who think that it's always worth points for some reason.

 

One of the sad things about HERO is the fact that its point system leads some people to give points for what are in effect disadvantages that don't cause problems and of course non-limiting limits (the guy who wanted to make Captain America's shield Independent for example).

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Now in this specific (my cyberpunk campaign): having three eyes is distinctive' date=' but also having a chromed cyberarm, two rabbit ears, scaly skin or flashing jacket with Illumipanel inside. So is so distinctive that, i suppose, is not distinctive (all are distinctive, so having three eyes is not more distinctive than in-modern-day wearing sunglasses or leather jacket...)[/quote']

 

I thought this was a possibility, which is why I brought the subject up. I've seen a number of settings where such things would be no more 'distinctive' than a person have a face.

 

Especially in settings that have facial recognition software or even photographs ("Have you seen this person?").

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

well, if I understand what you want here, we can't really helpy you decide that. What the eye is suppose to do is a function of it's creator's desires..in theis case you. You can have the eyes give them access to what ever kind of abilities you want to.

 

You can also treat them as you would any other focus.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

except you also stated that it was against the rules to give a third eye points even IF it was a true disadvantage. And even if GMs wanted to make it so. It is the job of the GM to enforce disadvantages, if they don't bring them up then they shouldn't have given points for them.

 

I personally feel that almost all equipment is Independent unless it can not under any circumstance be used by someone else. It was not wrong for them to want to make his shield independent, it just wasn't in genre.

 

You'd probubly hate the fact that I make all equipment in my games independent for the sole purpose of looting and disarming, unless it has a SFX that requires it to be with the user. You probubly also hate the fact that I frequently destroy my player's equipment, or that I give them an equipment retainer when the game begins to help lighten the loss of chracter points later...

 

But as a GM it's my decision. So it doesn't really matter.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

except you also stated that it was against the rules to give a third eye points even IF it was a true disadvantage. .

 

If I did that, I did a major typo somewhere.

 

This is the complete quote from my first post on the subject, you'll find it on page one:

 

 

It could be a special effect of various powers, all depends upon the character. If there are no powers or advantages, it's just SPX for the character.

 

Unless the existance of the third eye causes actual problems for the character (i.e people are afraid of him, won't assist him, ruins his attempt to go undercover freq, etc.) it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage.

 

It looks very clear there to me.

 

No problems- 0 points. Problems - give DF disadvantage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally feel that almost all equipment is Independent unless it can not under any circumstance be used by someone else. It was not wrong for them to want to make his shield independent, it just wasn't in genre.

 

 

Your personal feelings are not the rules. The rules define the concept of universal focus- i.e. a focus that can be used by anyone (a -0 limit).

 

Independent references only those things (and they need not have the focus limit) that can be lost forever along with the points spent to buy them.

 

 

 

You'd probubly hate the fact that I make all equipment in my games independent for the sole purpose of looting and disarming, unless it has a SFX that requires it to be with the user. You probubly also hate the fact that I frequently destroy my player's equipment, or that I give them an equipment retainer when the game begins to help lighten the loss of chracter points later...

 

I wouldn't play in your campaign, but beyond that I don't personally care how you run it.

 

All I care about is incorrect statements here about what the rules offically allow or disallow.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

This is the complete quote from my first post on the subject, you'll find it on page one:

 

It looks very clear there to me.

 

No problems- 0 points. Problems - give DF disadvantage.

*********************************************************

All I care about is incorrect statements here about what the rules offically allow or disallow.

 

Now, I don't think Fox1 at any point says "The rules explicitly prohibit allowing a Distinctive Features disadvantage for having three eyes". At the same tuime, his posts seem to imply, by default, that a third eye is really not distinctive in most, if not all, settings. He does acknowledge that, if large groups attempt to arrest/kill three-eyeed people on site, then some slight disadvantage might be merited.

 

Fox1 does say, in response to the suggestion that ease of identification is not worth any disadvantage, that:

 

Those small issues are not typically worth that disadvantage unless the character is expected to appear in lineups or needs to be unrecognized as part of his concept.

 

Check the rulebook. It agrees with me.

 

I'm waitong for a page citation that ease of recogniotion is not part of Distinctive Features, since the laundry list presented in 5er seems to include a lot of features less distinctive than a third eye which would have no real impact beyond ease of identification.

 

The rules are specific, it has to be more than just 'odd' or 'different'. It must cause real problems for the character.

 

We don't have any information about problems a 3rd eye may or may not have in the campaign in question. For all we know, it may be no more of a issue than having red hair.

 

It's up to the GM to define the problems of having a third eye and to detemine if they merit points.

 

That's the rule given in the book. I'm sorry if noting that has ruined your day and forced you into making wild claims counter to rules and concerning campaigns you don't even play in.

 

Interesting that (bright) red hair is included in that previously noted laundry list.

 

The point is the rules don't disallow it as Fox1 says.

 

Please don't make stuff up

 

There are a couple here however who think that it's always worth points for some reason.

 

I don't believe anyone said that. They did probably proceed with the undocumented assumption that wanting a third eye "like an Indian goddess" and asking what abilities that would mean (abilities differing from the norm for the population, presumably) implied a third eye was not the norm.

 

BTW, a Uniform is a DF, as mentioned previously, but only if the character wears it even when it would be inappropriate. That would be why the traditional "underwear on the outside" super-suit isn't a DF. The reason someone may target someone in a uniform is typically because the target is Hunted by that person/group, not because a DF has no value unless someone wants to kill you over it.

 

Always a pleasure, Fox1

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

But as a GM it's my decision. So it doesn't really matter.

 

:whip: who's the GM? you are!

 

what are you going to do? take away my equipment?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

If the third eye is still visible when closed, I would say it merits an Easily Concealable (can probably be hidden just by wearing a hat) Distinctive Feature, unless the setting has a pretty large number of strange looking non-human races, mutants, cyborgs, etc.; in a D&D-type setting, for example, I wouldn't give it a Distinctive Feature if it is a normal racial feature of the character's race and the race itself isn't horribly rare or highly discriminated against.

 

If it is not visible when closed (some, "mystic," third eyes are like this, and some are described as virtually disappearing into the wrinkles of the forehead), I would probably say it doesn't merit the Distinctive Feature at all.

 

Some ideas for Powers: Range PSLs (enhanced depth perception), Telescopic Sight/Sight Group or straight bonuses to Sight/Sight Group, Increased Arc of Perception (verticle rather than horizontal, perhaps), Clairsentience, Flash Defense (if the eye is, "normally not open"), Images, Mind Control - Mesmerize Only (Telepathic; Set Effect: "Stand Still and Stare at My Eye").

 

Some ideas for Disadvantages: Distinctive Features, Vulnerability to Flashes, Susceptibility to Bright Light (penalty SLs or CSLs, Per roll penalties, normal Stun damage, etc.), Watched - Hindus (or some organization of mystics, or whatever).