Three or more Eyes

[Dr Divago]

if a character want a third eye or more (think about an "indian god"-like superhero, an alien with more eyes or a cyborg a la Appleseed's Briareos)

how can he build this third eye?

just a special effect or some other power?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Distinctive Features.

 

Then buy any powers you want usable because of the third eye - once we get over the unusual nature of the feature, it's just SFX.

[Markdoc]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

If it gives him some extra powers, it's a power, with the eye simply being the special effect.

 

If it just means he has three eyes, then it's maybe a disadvantage (distinctive appearance).

 

 

cheers, Mark

[Mister E]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I would say 5 character points for any extra eyes... which is just like Extra Limbs, and similar to the 5 point doubling rule for equipment.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I would say 5 character points for any extra eyes... which is just like Extra Limbs' date=' and similar to the 5 point doubling rule for equipment.[/quote']

 

Extra arms can be used to punch while Grabbing with two hands. Extra equipment can be used as equipment. What added functionality do extra eyes provide? I'd say spend the 5 points on (say) +1 sight PER roll and a bit of flash defense.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

It could be a special effect of various powers, all depends upon the character. If there are no powers or advantages, it's just SPX for the character.

 

Unless the existance of the third eye causes actual problems for the character (i.e people are afraid of him, won't assist him, ruins his attempt to go undercover freq, etc.) it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I would say 5 character points for any extra eyes... which is just like Extra Limbs' date=' and similar to the 5 point doubling rule for equipment.[/quote']

 

That doesn't make any sense. An extra arm is a clear advantage. A third eye is not, since unless it has special Powers bought with it as the SFX, it has no benefit, only a Distinctive Features drawback.

 

EDIT:

Extra arms can be used to punch while Grabbing with two hands. Extra equipment can be used as equipment. What added functionality do extra eyes provide? I'd say spend the 5 points on (say) +1 sight PER roll and a bit of flash defense.

 

Yeah, what he said.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Unless the existance of the third eye causes actual problems for the character (i.e people are afraid of him' date=' won't assist him, ruins his attempt to go undercover freq, etc.) it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage.[/quote']

 

Unless there are three-eyed people wandering around everywhere in the GM's campaign, I can say with confidence that you are mistaken about "it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage." I know you qualified it with "unless it causes actual problems for the character," but there's no way, in a campaign full of normal Humans, that the eye could do anything BUT be distinctive.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Unless there are three-eyed people wandering around everywhere in the GM's campaign' date=' I can say with confidence that you are mistaken about "it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage." I know you qualified it with "unless it causes actual problems for the character," but there's no way, in a campaign full of normal Humans, that the eye could do anything BUT be distinctive.[/quote']

 

First, Disadvantages must cause problems to be worth any points. Simple flat rule core to the system.

 

 

Second, I don't know what the campaign setting is. Hence I phrased my advice the way I did.

 

I do know that in my Marvel setting where norse thunder gods and green androids are public heroes, a guy with a third eye may be marked as a superhero- but that by itself doesn't cause him 'problems' anymore than colorfull tights do.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Unless the existance of the third eye causes actual problems for the character (i.e people are afraid of him' date=' won't assist him, ruins his attempt to go undercover freq, etc.) it is *not* worth a distinctive feature disadvantage.[/quote']

 

This depends on your game, of course. In my view, however, the lower levels of Distinctive Features are quite suited for a character who finds it tough to be incognito.

 

It's difficult, for example, to go undercover as a VIPER agent if your character has an extra eye. Most VIPER recruiters tend to notice these subtle details.

[Mister E]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Extra arms can be used to punch while Grabbing with two hands. Extra equipment can be used as equipment. What added functionality do extra eyes provide? I'd say spend the 5 points on (say) +1 sight PER roll and a bit of flash defense.

 

 

That's a good question. I'm speculating, but I suppose if you had extra eyes, you chould continue seeing after certain Flashes... that would be nice. If the character were blinded in one eye, you would still have depth perception, and shouldn't have any penalties for Ranged combat. There may be more...

 

None of these benifits are extremely common, or useful... but I think they are on par with having extra limbs, or doubled equipment.

 

As an example, Grond has extra limbs, and took the Extra Limbs power... but he also took extra SPD, to be used only for attacking. So sure, also give yourself +1 or more to Perception Rolls, and some Flash DEF.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of other powers that could be accredited to having extra eyes, but when you get right down to it, if having extra eyes was really all that useful, from an evolutionary stand-point, we would all have one or two more than we have. So that's why I think, at a mimumum, having extra eyes should cost 5 points, and that having extra eyes should give you no more benifit than the ability to see should a few get impaired.

 

Honestly, that's just my two cents. I'm not married to my opinion.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

First, Disadvantages must cause problems to be worth any points. Simple flat rule core to the system.

 

Second, I don't know what the campaign setting is. Hence I phrased my advice the way I did.

 

I do know that in my Marvel setting where norse thunder gods and green androids are public heroes, a guy with a third eye may be marked as a superhero- but that by itself doesn't cause him 'problems' anymore than colorfull tights do.

 

Ah. Well, Dr. Divago is running a Cyberpunk game, as you may know from the dozen or so posts he's been making over the past 2 weeks.

 

At the very least, a third eye makes someone VERY easy to recognize in a police lineup, or anywhere else, for that matter. It's worth a smidgen of Disadvantage for that, at least. Hard to blend into a crowd and all that.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Ah. Well' date=' Dr. Divago is running a Cyberpunk game, as you may know from the dozen or so posts he's been making over the past 2 weeks. .[/quote']

 

Didn't have a clue until now. His example specific referenced both superheroes and cyborgs (cyborgs exist in a number of settings), so even if I noticed- it wouldn't have made a difference in my post.

 

 

 

At the very least, a third eye makes someone VERY easy to recognize in a police lineup, or anywhere else, for that matter. It's worth a smidgen of Disadvantage for that, at least. Hard to blend into a crowd and all that.

 

Those small issues are not typically worth that disadvantage unless the character is expected to appear in lineups or needs to be unrecognized as part of his concept.

 

Check the rulebook. It agrees with me.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Ah. Well' date=' Dr. Divago is running a Cyberpunk game, as you may know from the dozen or so posts he's been making over the past 2 weeks. [/quote']cough cough

Ops, it's only a coincidence... can i call my lawyer??

this is a general post... not only to cyberpunk...

...

...

Okay okay you're right...

i'm thinking about my cyberpunk-hero conversion...

At the very least' date=' a third eye makes someone VERY easy to recognize in a police lineup, or anywhere else, for that matter. It's worth a smidgen of Disadvantage for that, at least. Hard to blend into a crowd and all that.[/quote']You're right, but if tricloptics (implant to insert a third eye on the head) is buyable by everyone, is not-so-distinctive (distinctive are drawback of all cyberware)

 

Speaking of Tricloptics in particular: this give possibility to install a third cybereye (defined like a VPP 30+15...). And this is sufficent ('cause ordinarily PC are limited to only two eyes, this give a third possibility...)

 

But... I must give some other power? like a FD, bonus to PER or similar? Do you think that a Distinctive Feature are mandatory? (and in this case: building is like a Side Effect?)

[Blue Rose]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

If it gives him some extra powers, it's a power, with the eye simply being the special effect.

 

I read in a book once where there were creatures with three eyes. They explained that in order to see three dimensions one needs two eyes, so in order to see four dimensions one needs three eyes. The reason why we couldn't see those creatures was based off of the "Flat Land" concept that a two dimensional creature would have trouble conceptualizing a three dimensional creature. Therefore by extrapolation a three dimensional creature would have trouble conceptualizing a four dimensional creature.

 

So, getting off of tangent. A possible power that a three eyed individual might have is to see four dimensionally. Time has been called the fourth dimension, but the GM can choose to call the fourth dimension the higher (or lower) planes if he/she wishes (i.e. something out of "The Mystic World").

 

---Blue Rose

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

if the third eye was in the back of their head or something, you might buy them increased field of perception (like 240 or 360)

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

The final word on it is this:

 

• If something offers no quantifiable advantage or disadvantage, it is worth 0 (zero).

• If something offers a quantifiable advantage, it costs character points.

• If something causes a quantifiable disadvantage, it gives bonus character points.

• If something offers both advantages and disadvantages, it usually costs at least 1 character point, but may cost 0 if the disadvantage outweighs the advantage. Specific disadvantages can be worth many disadvantage points.

 

If the eye is just there -- if it has no game effect -- it costs 0. If it offers mainly advantages, it costs character points. If it offers mainly disadvantages, it gives bonus character points. Simple. (It shouldn't cost 5 just to have a third eye unless it offers 5 points of advantages).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Those small issues are not typically worth that disadvantage unless the character is expected to appear in lineups or needs to be unrecognized as part of his concept.

 

Check the rulebook. It agrees with me.

 

Especially the part about "Is noticed and recognized" being less points than "causes extreme reaction", but still being worth points, right?

 

Honestly, if I have to ask "Did you see three guys in casual clothes here yesterday", how many replies do you think I'll get that are useful. Now add in "One of them had three eyes." Seems to me this guy is a lot easier to track doewn, and doesn't disappear into a crowd very well.

[Old Man]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

 

Check the rulebook. It agrees with me.

 

Uh...maybe you should read the book again....

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Uh...maybe you should read the book again....

 

Let's see... from page 333 5th revised:

 

"Just looking odd isn't enough to earn the character any points - his unusual features have to hinder him somehow."

 

It's even in Italics to drive the point home. Three eyes is odd alright.

 

But what does it do to earn him points that looking odd doesn't as looking odd means standing out in crowds and picked in line ups? The answer to that is campaign specific and a GM's call.

[MitchellS]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

Let's see... from page 333 5th revised:

 

"Just looking odd isn't enough to earn the character any points - his unusual features have to hinder him somehow."

 

It's even in Italics to drive the point home. Three eyes is odd alright.

 

But what does it do to earn him points that looking odd doesn't as looking odd means standing out in crowds and picked in line ups? The answer to that is campaign specific and a GM's call.

If an UNTIL or VIPER uniform [something which can be removed] hinders a character 5 points worth DF then I would say a third eye hinders just as much, if not more. The fact that you look like an outcast to many people is hindrance enough, IMO [think mutants in Total Recall].

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

If an UNTIL or VIPER uniform [something which can be removed] hinders a character 5 points worth DF then I would say a third eye hinders just as much' date=' if not more. The fact that you look like an outcast to many people is hindrance enough, IMO [think mutants in Total Recall'].

 

A uniform makes you a target for those who want to whack you. In this case (the CU setting), UNTIL wants to arrest VIPER and VIPER will typically fire at UNTIL rather than be arrested.

 

A third eye doesn't come with those sorts of problems unless the GM puts people in the game that arrest/shoot people with 3 eyes.

 

See the difference?

[MitchellS]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

A uniform makes you a target for those who want to whack you. In this case (the CU setting), UNTIL wants to arrest VIPER and VIPER will typically fire at UNTIL rather than be arrested.

 

A third eye doesn't come with those sorts of problems unless the GM puts people in the game that arrest/shoot people with 3 eyes.

 

See the difference?

No, I don't see the difference [and you really don't think you do either]. A third eye can be a social hidrance [i don't want to talk to that freak!], it can be an economic hindrance [repair the eye can be very expensive], it can be a physical hindrance [easier to poke a sensitive area, harder to wear some clothing like hats], etc.

 

For some reason you seem to equate disadvantages solely with combat effects within your examples. That couldn't be further from the truth. In fact few disadvantages have a real combat effect. Being a womanizer doesn't have anything to do with someone someone arresting/attacking you. Having a younger sibling who gets into a great deal of trouble has nothing to do with someone someone arresting/attacking you, etc.

 

A distinctive feature is something that makes you appear different then the general populus to the point where they react around you a little differently then they do other people without your distinctivness. A third eye when 99% of the population only has two easily fits that bill.

[Fox1]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

No' date=' I don't see the difference [/quote']

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

 

A distinctive feature is something that makes you appear different then the general populus to the point where they react around you a little differently then they do other people without your distinctivness.

 

The rules are specific, it has to be more than just 'odd' or 'different'. It must cause real problems for the character.

 

We don't have any information about problems a 3rd eye may or may not have in the campaign in question. For all we know, it may be no more of a issue than having red hair.

 

It's up to the GM to define the problems of having a third eye and to detemine if they merit points.

 

That's the rule given in the book. I'm sorry if noting that has ruined your day and forced you into making wild claims counter to rules and concerning campaigns you don't even play in.

[MitchellS]

Re: Three or more Eyes

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

 

 

 

The rules are specific, it has to be more than just 'odd' or 'different'. It must cause real problems for the character.

 

We don't have any information about problems a 3rd eye may or may not have in the campaign in question. For all we know, it may be no more of a issue than having red hair.

 

It's up to the GM to define the problems of having a third eye and to detemine if they merit points.

 

That's the rule given in the book. I'm sorry if noting that has ruined your day and forced you into making wild claims counter to rules and concerning campaigns you don't even play in.

Fox1, being sarcastic toward people with differing views doesn't make you right. It only lessens you and your opinions in other's eyes. Try to keep that in mind.