sense power: detect metals

[nuada]

I'm looking to build a targetting sense that is based on the ability to detect metals. I don't want it in the sight group, but touch group is acceptable.

 

My character is part Magma elemental (earth elemental that's a little more uppity), and can detect trace (or large) quantites of metal. This sense is so refined and detailed that he can use it to detect the trace metals in someone's blood, and target them in combat with it.

 

One way I thought to build this was:

 

Detect Metal (detect: large class of things; sense, range, targetting sense, increased arc 360 degree, microscopic x100, discriminating, analyze) (48 active points)

 

I figure I need microscopic to detect such small amounts of things like Iron in someone's blood.

 

Is there a way to build this that's a little more elegant? Also, if I went with the above power, what 'flash' or 'darkness' attacks would affect this power?

 

Also, any suggestions for limitations on the above power would be welcome, as 48 points is PAINFUL, even in an EC.

 

Thanks,

[Talon]

There isn't a more "elegant" way to build this power -- it's a sense, you use Enhanced Senses.

 

Analyze gives you a lot of info on the items sensed; even normal sight isn't fully Discriminatory. You could probably drop it and gain 5 points.

 

When you bought the power, you would choose a Sense Group to put it in (subject to GM approval). The choice depends on how he does it -- off-hand I'd say it's an Unusual Sense, which means that it's nearly impossible to affect with Flash or Darkness.

 

This may seem expensive, but you're really getting a pretty kick-a** power for your 40-odd points. Flash, Invisibility, Darkness, and Images will probably be useless against the character.

[nuada]

Thanks for the info! I didn't realize this would let me see through most invisibilities and images. I was mostly looking for a way to make myself tougher to flash or darknesses. That's pretty huge.

 

By the way... this is clearly a really dumb question, but what does FREd stand for? Is it "Fifth Regular Edition" or something?

 

Thanks again!

[Conduit]

FREd really doesn't stand for anything. Once upon a time Steve Long said, "You can call it Fred as long as you buy it." So we do. It has been retcon-ed to mean either Fifth Revised Edition or Fifth Rules Edition.

[nuada]

Re: FREd

 

Neat! I feel so "hip" and "with it" now.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

Analyze gives you a lot of info on the items sensed; even normal sight isn't fully Discriminatory. You could probably drop it and gain 5 points.

 

Um, no -- you can't. Analyze can only be bought for senses that are Discriminatory (FREd pg 107).

[pinecone]

One way to lower the cost is to put it in a sense group as some of the characteristics of that group then port over...so if you can "smell" trace elements smell is a sense is ranged and is 360(ish) so check fred as some of that "comes free" for boosting your snozz instead of creating a new sense and come on...how many smell flashes are you likely to see unless you fight Foxbat!

[BNakagawa]

Frankly, while the idea of tracking someone through sensing the trace metals in their body is interesting, it triggers my insufficient STR in my suspension of disbelief-o-meter.

 

It's a little like using a satellite to track a car's headlights driving around at night. In downtown Las Vegas.

 

If you want it to work like that, there ought to be some sort of adder to senses that would allow one to sense faint sources without being drowned out by larger signals. So you'd be able to listen to somebody whispering in the middle of a rock concert. Discriminatory comes close, but it already has a specific function, I'd rather it be something different. Perhaps you could call it selective or something.

 

Also, the construct triggers my allergy to cheese. I don't like the use of detects and targetting sense to make characters essentially immune to flashes. I've seen a million variations on this theme, along the lines of sense mass, which are primarily there to build a combatant that is immune to flashes, invisibility and darkness.

 

$0.02

[SkyKnight]

But what if the character wants to be immune to flashes and darkness? A well prepared villain can still disable the sense by arranging for a metal rich battlefield that confuses the sense (PER checks) or using a gadget pool to build a flash versus this specific sense. We are talking about superheroes here.

 

PC - "I want to fly at supersonic speeds."

GM - "Sure, no problem."

PC - "I want to be able to lift a tractor trailer with 1 hand."

GM - "60 STR, same as everyone else."

PC - "I want to see in the dark so well that you have to go through extra effort to blind me."

GM - "Whoa now, that raises game balance issues. I mean see in the dark, what kind of uber-munchkin are you?"

 

All in good fun,

SkyKnight

 

 

 

Originally posted by BNakagawa

Also, the construct triggers my allergy to cheese. I don't like the use of detects and targetting sense to make characters essentially immune to flashes. I've seen a million variations on this theme, along the lines of sense mass, which are primarily there to build a combatant that is immune to flashes, invisibility and darkness.

 

$0.02

[Kintara]

Well, you could buy a power that Suppresses Darkness, invisibility and such. But using an unusual sense seems to be the best way. The problem is that it would be nice to know how the character does it, instead of what it can do. Since it's an elemental descended ability, is it magic? If so, then abilities that affect magic will work. Actually, in the right campaign, a magic sense is a not uncommon ability, so a flash or darkness to it isn't unreasonable to buy (a sorcerer with it has great surprise power). It might actually be rather useful at times, depending on how the GM constructs others' abilities.

 

From my experience with HERO so far, I've learned that absolute abilities aren't really condoned. There should always be a work around that is reasonably common.

[BNakagawa]

Originally posted by SkyKnight

But what if the character wants to be immune to flashes and darkness? A well prepared villain can still disable the sense by arranging for a metal rich battlefield that confuses the sense (PER checks) or using a gadget pool to build a flash versus this specific sense. We are talking about superheroes here.

 

PC - "I want to fly at supersonic speeds."

GM - "Sure, no problem."

PC - "I want to be able to lift a tractor trailer with 1 hand."

GM - "60 STR, same as everyone else."

PC - "I want to see in the dark so well that you have to go through extra effort to blind me."

GM - "Whoa now, that raises game balance issues. I mean see in the dark, what kind of uber-munchkin are you?"

 

All in good fun,

SkyKnight

 

Reasonable: I want my character to be able to see in the dark. I want my character's sight to be resistant to strobelights or searchlights.

 

Unreasonable: I want my character to be able to target over 99% of all published enemies while under the influence of over 99% of all the sense-obscuring powers ever published. I want this to cost less than 20 points.

 

$0.02

[SkyKnight]

I certainly understand what you're saying, but does that mean you have eliminated the Combat Sense talent from your game? It does exactly what you describe below and costs 15 points. Admittedly, it has no range, but you could add range to it and it would still be under 20 points.

 

Originally posted by BNakagawa

 

Unreasonable: I want my character to be able to target over 99% of all published enemies while under the influence of over 99% of all the sense-obscuring powers ever published. I want this to cost less than 20 points.

 

$0.02 [/b]

[Kintara]

Well, Combat sense requires a roll every phase you use it, and only allows you to establish a HtH target. Plus, you'd need more than Range. I'd say Detect HtH & Ranged Target is a larger class of Detect, but it makes sense just to get Detect Enemy. So, add Ranged, Sense (unless you want to pay the 1/2 phase), larger Class, and possibly a larger arc. Then you'd probably want to buy the roll up to something decent. So it isn't as cheap as that. But I don't think that your power should be unallowed.

[nuada]

since I started all this (wow, a hearty debate! cool!), I figured I should chime in a little.

 

The power is gained from the elemental whose body my character is sharing (long-ish story). This power source could arguably be magical or arcane, but the GM of my game seems to be aiming elementals more at "forces of nature" rather than "summoned cute things that you store in capture balls".

 

To that end, he has suggested that magnetic and gravity powers would confuse this sense to the point of uselessness. Furthermore, because it is so difficult to detect the iron and phosphorus levels in someone's blood, he's planning on assigning a penalty for me to detect organics with this power. So, basically, if I'm trying to use it to see a regular person, during a fight, while flashed or darkened, I will probably need to make a roll, at a penalty, every phase.

 

He /has/ said that analyze isn't necessary, though discriminatory is. This would make it a 43 point power.

 

As to the overall philosophy of this sort of thing, I think that powers like this, which have the potential to let me ignore a large class of powers (flashes and darknesses and invisibilities), should work similar to the way 'desolid' works: namely, you need to define one or more relatively common weaknesses. In this example, magnetics and gravity.

 

Also, since my character has /no/ power defense (GM fiat), suppresses, drains, dispels, and the like are also valid ways to shut this down, and all of these powers are easily justified in a villain.

 

Anyway, you'll note that, even in the first post, I was asking for some recommended vulnarabilities. I'm not looking to build the power to end all powers here. Just an additional sense that's different enough to be a defining element of my character. Gotta make those bricks stand out /somehow/. I mean, who /can't/ throw around small bridges, these days?

[Kintara]

I don't necessarily agree with your GM, buying all those levels of microscopic seems pretty pricey to be that restrictive. Regardless, remind him that lots of targets will have metal on them. How many experienced fighters won't have a piece of shrapnel embedded in their abdomen, eh? Or at least pocket change, firearms, and a lighter. So bonuses will be frequent.

[nuada]

Maybe I should add "rapid" to the list, or something.

 

I'm not that worried. Even if this sense only gives me /one/ target to fight while I'm flashed or darkened, I'll be okay with it.

 

And so far, the toughest villain we've faced (and will be facing again, no doubt), was a guy named iron mask, which should tip you off as to my confidence that this sense will track him just fine.

 

Still, if someone took the time to spray trace elements of metals similar to those present in their bloodstream, I'd be willing to accept that I could no longer see them with this sense. Hopefully, I will be beating them senseless while they're unlimbering their aerosol cans, though.

[mauk2]

As the poor long-suffering GM who is to be suffering IF I allow this power to come to be, I will defend myself.

 

I will retain control of the campaign, as "power bloat" is a probem nobody likes.

 

Sadly, this power is simply too cool to just disallow completely, and frankly, it makes a lot of sense.

 

So, I will probably use the same solution recommended for Pre-cognition. "Unreliable." Often it'll work. Often it won't. Why? Ore bodies, steel mills, hordes of robotic insects (yes, that's planned for a future session, MUAHAHAHA!) etc.

 

In addition, this is a magical ability, so the sorceror able to slam it is also a perfectly usable idea.

 

And, yes, this is pretty much guaranteed to work on Iron Mask. Unless you make him mad enough to take off the mask....

 

[pinecone]

Or even better put iron masks on kidnapped DNPCs and put hypnotic commands on them to "rush toward that elemantal and try to touch him"

[Super Squirrel]

Touch Ranged is perfectly legal. Snakes do it with heat. I have a character who has touch surface vibrations with ranged on it.