OCV Penalty on Powers

[Kabluey]

Is there a way in the rules to build a power and assign a penalty to OCV with it? For example, an EB with a -2 OCV. There is the Inaccurate limitation from the USDB, but this impose a 1/2 or 0 OCV penalty, not a specific number of levels.

 

Thanks.

[MitchellS]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

You can use the side effect limitation to do this. Side Effect: -2 OCV, Always Occurs, Minor.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

You can use the side effect limitation to do this. Side Effect: -2 OCV' date=' Always Occurs, Minor.[/quote']

 

 

He's good!

[Kabluey]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

You can use the side effect limitation to do this. Side Effect: -2 OCV' date=' Always Occurs, Minor.[/quote']

 

Thanks!

[Doug Limmer]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

You can use the side effect limitation to do this. Side Effect: -2 OCV' date=' Always Occurs, Minor.[/quote']

For most powers (anything 20 AP and up, with no other limitations applied), giving this even a -1/4 value will save more points than the 4 points needed for a counter-acting +2 OCV with that specific power. I suspect it should be a -0 limitation in most cases.

 

Or, maybe you can ask your GM for a 4-point 'negative adder'.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

For most powers (anything 20 AP and up, with no other limitations applied), giving this even a -1/4 value will save more points than the 4 points needed for a counter-acting +2 OCV with that specific power. I suspect it should be a -0 limitation in most cases.

 

Or, maybe you can ask your GM for a 4-point 'negative adder'.

Yeah. It should really be something like -1 OCV per 5 or 10 Active Points in order to qualify for any value as a Limitation. Consider taking the difference between a RSR with no penalty and one with a -1 per 10 Active Points or -1 per 5 Active Points as a basis. I have considered a negative, "Adder," as well at times. That's the way it works with Martial Maneuvers IIRC.

 

BTW, I have distinctly the noticed the lack of this kind of limitation in the system myself at times.

[Black Rose]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

The problem with a "negative" Adder is that it "adds" to the power's Base Points, causing funky effects to the Active Points. I had this problem with HDv2, when I tried to write up the Martial Art Maneuvers as Power Constructs.

 

If I were doing it freehand, I'd simply throw "-2 OCV (-4 pts)" onto the Real Cost. It might be a little potent, especially for powers which were already heavily Limited, but it's consistant with what I'd do with powers which were heavily Advantaged, and I like being consistant in my write-ups.

[radioKAOS]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

If I were to respond here I would say...

 

Yeah. It should really be something like -1 OCV per 5 or 10 Active Points in order to qualify for any value as a Limitation. Consider taking the difference between a RSR with no penalty and one with a -1 per 10 Active Points or -1 per 5 Active Points as a basis. I have considered a negative, "Adder," as well at times. That's the way it works with Martial Maneuvers IIRC.

 

BTW, I have distinctly the noticed the lack of this kind of limitation in the system myself at times.

[Rapier]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Yeah. It should really be something like -1 OCV per 5 or 10 Active Points in order to qualify for any value as a Limitation. Consider taking the difference between a RSR with no penalty and one with a -1 per 10 Active Points or -1 per 5 Active Points as a basis. I have considered a negative, "Adder," as well at times. That's the way it works with Martial Maneuvers IIRC.

 

BTW, I have distinctly the noticed the lack of this kind of limitation in the system myself at times.

 

That's what I usually do, just throw on a unique -4 Real Points (since it IS a limitation, it should not effect the active points) for a -2 OCV.

[The Souljourner]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

That's what I usually do' date=' just throw on a unique -4 Real Points (since it IS a limitation, it should not effect the active points) for a -2 OCV.[/quote']

 

Ditto (and interestingly, I was just thinking of this exact thing last night).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

When I've done this in the past I have used negative skill levels - which avoids doing strange things to the powers points. What I've had to be careful with is that not too many powers are getting negative levels! It is too easy to make a few points by 'buying' -2 levels with three or more powers rather than purchasing a 5 or 8 point power to cover all those necessary.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I can't resist it, can I?....

 

OK: what effect does an OCV penalty have?

 

Well, it depends on your OCV relative to the DCVs you are likely to encounter.

 

If the average DCV is 8 and you have a OCV of, say, 13, then -2 would be a (roughly) 8% change in your chance to hit, and probably not worth a limitation.

 

Assuming your normal OCV with the attack is about the same as the campaign average DCV, your chance to hit (with a -2) drops from 62% to 37%, or about -3/4 limtation, a -3 is -1 limitation and -4 is -1 1/2. Anything more is probably -2. A -1 probably is not enough for a limitation.

 

Funny old game, really

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I just use negative skill levels and call it good. Pity those were removed from the system.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I just use negative skill levels and call it good. Pity those were removed from the system.

Removed?! Eh?

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I can't resist it, can I?....

 

OK: what effect does an OCV penalty have?

 

Well, it depends on your OCV relative to the DCVs you are likely to encounter.

 

If the average DCV is 8 and you have a OCV of, say, 13, then -2 would be a (roughly) 8% change in your chance to hit, and probably not worth a limitation.

 

Assuming your normal OCV with the attack is about the same as the campaign average DCV, your chance to hit (with a -2) drops from 62% to 37%, or about -3/4 limtation, a -3 is -1 limitation and -4 is -1 1/2. Anything more is probably -2. A -1 probably is not enough for a limitation.

 

Funny old game, really

Well, another way to look at it is: "How many points would it take to overcome this drawback?" For any given "attack," it is 2 points per -1.

 

EDIT: Although, as Doc D. mentioned, it becomes cheaper if there are multiple attacks/powers.

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Removed?! Eh?

 

They used to be used all the time for just this sort of thing. Now there's no mention of them and limits are used instead.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

They used to be used all the time for just this sort of thing. Now there's no mention of them and limits are used instead.

 

Aren't they called Penalty Skill Levels now?

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Aren't they called Penalty Skill Levels now?

 

Penalty Skill Levels are used as postive values to offset Penalities, such as range modifiers.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Penalty Skill Levels are used as postive values to offset Penalities' date=' such as range modifiers.[/quote']

 

Ah yeah ... I coulda sworn I read about a method of adding negative modifiers - not near my book so I could just be imagining the whole thing at the moment....

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Ah yeah ... I coulda sworn I read about a method of adding negative modifiers - not near my book so I could just be imagining the whole thing at the moment....

 

The only note about negative modifiers I recall from the 5th edition (revised) is on page 483. There it notes that RMod bonuses are brought as a 3 point when positive and as a minor Side Effect (-1/2) when negative.

 

Same with OCV on page 482 except bonuses are brought at 5 points per.

 

Sucks if you ask me. The old way was better.

[The Souljourner]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I can't resist it, can I?....

 

OK: what effect does an OCV penalty have?

 

Well, it depends on your OCV relative to the DCVs you are likely to encounter.

 

If the average DCV is 8 and you have a OCV of, say, 13, then -2 would be a (roughly) 8% change in your chance to hit, and probably not worth a limitation.

 

Well, if you were using a d20 instead of 3d6...

 

-Nate (who couldn't resist either)

[Sean Waters]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Ah yeah ... I coulda sworn I read about a method of adding negative modifiers - not near my book so I could just be imagining the whole thing at the moment....

 

 

There are negative skill levels in hero - 5 pointers you use against others. Not aware of anything you can use against yourself.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Well, another way to look at it is: "How many points would it take to overcome this drawback?" For any given "attack," it is 2 points per -1.

 

EDIT: Although, as Doc D. mentioned, it becomes cheaper if there are multiple attacks/powers.

 

 

....although as soon as you buy them you change the limitation on the power. Becomes very complicated.

 

I was not suggesting my method was the right way to calculate a limtiation: relative lims never work well, but it is interesting to note the substantial effect on, well, effectiveness that even a few points of penalty has on a bell curve. As Souljourner points out (and there may be an element of cross thread humour here, so don't everyone go off on one) maybe we sould use a d20 roll

[The Souljourner]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

it is interesting to note the substantial effect on' date=' well, effectiveness that even a few points of penalty has on a bell curve.[/quote']

 

Yeah... it seems to me that skill levels are way too cheap. I mean, +3 with for 6 points? That's a huge boost in effectiveness for just over the cost of 1DC. And given the fact that you can turn 2 skill levels into +1DC (IIRC) why are we buying DCs at all? I'd make skill levels something like 5/7/9. Yes, that means an overall level costs the same as +3 dex, which would give you the same effect.... except that dex affects other skills, and skill levels can be used for a variety of effects.

 

-Nate

[Sean Waters]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

The costing does seem wrong, but I don't think that changing the cost is the answer, so much as making sure the CV war doesn't get out of hand: be very wary of anyone buying 2 point OCV levels, and keep a close eye on anyone who can do at least campaign average damage and buys combat levels at all.

 

I amy just be a paranoid old fuddy-duddy, but that is how I see it.