Building Tech for Original Setting

[Savinien]

Hey all! It's me the resident ignoramus looking for more help.

 

I have an original setting based on a race sort of like Humans in a Galaxy far, far away.

 

The Gannans aren't so unlike Humanity and their tech level is comparable in many aspects but one.

 

The Gannans have us leaps and bounds in the area of magnetics. I don't know the details but this knowledge in one specific area has helped enhance Gannan Technology in many ways.

 

The purpose of this thread is to help define Gannan Tech in Hero Game mechanics.

 

I have some specific pieces of tech I would like to figure out how to write up in Hero Terms.

 

MagShield - This is a magnetic shield that works vs. incoming magnetizable items. (melee and ranged) I'm thinking Force Field PD (only vs. magnetizable material -1) Hardended to stop AP from Gauss Guns

 

Guass Guns - Probably going to use the equipment from Star Hero on the subject.

 

Conventional Firearms - Probably just use Dark Champions

Plastic Flechettes Bypassing a MagShield can be done by using non-magnetic material. This can only be fired through conventional means as opposed to Guass Guns.

 

MagBlades - (This is where it starts to get tricky) MagBlades were created to remove opposing forces using MagShields. A metal blade is charged with the opposite polarity of the MagShield, using the magnetic force of the shield to draw the blade into the opponent instead of it being repelled.

 

Vibroblades - These weapons have two blades being vebrated at high speeds by magnets on the weapons. NND (defense - MagSheild)

 

The big problem is dealing with the polarity issues of the MagShield vs MagBlades. On top of that... Should Guass Guns infuse polarity into their projectiles, too?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Well, first...unless your "very advanced" magnetic tech works quite differently from the way we believe magnetic effects to function, charging a metal object with the same polarityof magnetic field as the shield you mention would result in the metal object being violently repelled, not attracted to the person using the shield.

 

I'll also note that magnets (and magnetic fields) as we know them always come in pairs. Always. Though there are a lot of various ideas and theories, there are, as of this time, no known monopolar magnetic fields or items...so charging an item with "the same polarity" or a "different polarity" isn't really possible. Sure, you could match (or oppose) the polarity of the side of the field facing you, but...however, this being SF stuff, you're free to posit monopolar magnetic tech if you'd like. Given what you've mentioned, I think you should. This was mainly just an FYI.

 

That being said...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I assume the vibroblades you mention are not only NND but are in fact HKA, NND, Does Body? Or are they really Stun Only?

 

As for the MagBlades, designed to take out people using a MagShield...

 

First, if the MagShield is a FF vs. PD, having the MagBlade unaffected is simplicity itself. Just make the MagBlade an HKA defined as working vs. ED instead of PD. Bingo! Knife unaffected by MagShield!

 

Now, if you want to simulate it being drawn in toward someone using a MagShield, I'd add either some extra DC or extra OCV, only vs. someone using a MagShield. Something like this:

 

MagBlade: 1d6 HKA vs. ED, OAF (-1) plus +1d6 HKA, STR does not add (-1/2), Only vs. a target using a MagShield (-1/2), OAF (-1)

 

or

 

MagBlade: 1d6 HKA va. ED, OAF (-1) plus +5 OCV, Only vs. a target using a MagShield (-1/2), OAF (-1)

 

You can season to taste with Reduced END or Fuel Charges or however you want to indicate the MagBlade is a (presumably) 'powered' item.

 

And in regards to your question about Gauss guns infusing their projectiles with polarized fields...I wouldn't. Firstly, there's the whole 'monopole' issue. (If you decide to invoke monopoles, this may be a non-starter.) Second, unless you know what polarity of magnetic field your target is using, you may end up charging your projectile with a field that will repel it from the target instead of helping it pass through the target's MagShield. (I'm assuming that a hand weapon like a MagBlade, being within arm's reach, will be capable of sensing the MagShield's polarity and adjusting its own field as needed. That's a little more difficult with a [possibly very] long-range weapon like a Gauss gun.) I'd go with the idea of the Gauss gun simply bashing its way through a MagShield by sheer brute force. But that's me.

 

After all, if you do use the "Gauss gun polarizes its projectile" then you don't really need Hardened on the MagShield, do you? Because a properly-adjusted polarity is supposed to make an item pass through a MagShield unhindered, right?

 

Keep the MagShield with Hardened. Keep the Gauss guns with AP. If you want to make a particular model of Gauss gun more effective against people with MagShields, then either give that particular model either AP x 2 or Penetrating in addition to the AP it already has. Then it will become a near-sure thing that it gets some damage through a MagShield, but isn't just given carte blanche to waltz right through the shield as if it weren't there.

 

It sounds like you've got the rest of it pretty well worked out in HERO terms already.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Well' date=' first...unless your "very advanced" magnetic tech works quite differently from the way we believe magnetic effects to function, charging a metal object with the same polarityof magnetic field as the shield you mention would result in the metal object being violently [i']repelled[/i], not attracted to the person using the shield.

 

I'll also note that magnets (and magnetic fields) as we know them always come in pairs. Always. Though there are a lot of various ideas and theories, there are, as of this time, no known monopolar magnetic fields or items...so charging an item with "the same polarity" or a "different polarity" isn't really possible. Sure, you could match (or oppose) the polarity of the side of the field facing you, but...however, this being SF stuff, you're free to posit monopolar magnetic tech if you'd like. Given what you've mentioned, I think you should. This was mainly just an FYI.

 

That being said...

 

AUGH! I meant opposite polarity attracting. I did know that much but messed up when typing. Thanks for the catch. I editted.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I assume the vibroblades you mention are not only NND but are in fact HKA, NND, Does Body? Or are they really Stun Only?

 

As for the MagBlades, designed to take out people using a MagShield...

 

First, if the MagShield is a FF vs. PD, having the MagBlade unaffected is simplicity itself. Just make the MagBlade an HKA defined as working vs. ED instead of PD. Bingo! Knife unaffected by MagShield!

 

Now, if you want to simulate it being drawn in toward someone using a MagShield, I'd add either some extra DC or extra OCV, only vs. someone using a MagShield. Something like this:

 

MagBlade: 1d6 HKA vs. ED, OAF (-1) plus +1d6 HKA, STR does not add (-1/2), Only vs. a target using a MagShield (-1/2), OAF (-1)

 

or

 

MagBlade: 1d6 HKA va. ED, OAF (-1) plus +5 OCV, Only vs. a target using a MagShield (-1/2), OAF (-1)

 

You can season to taste with Reduced END or Fuel Charges or however you want to indicate the MagBlade is a (presumably) 'powered' item.

 

And in regards to your question about Gauss guns infusing their projectiles with polarized fields...I wouldn't. Firstly, there's the whole 'monopole' issue. (If you decide to invoke monopoles, this may be a non-starter.) Second, unless you know what polarity of magnetic field your target is using, you may end up charging your projectile with a field that will repel it from the target instead of helping it pass through the target's MagShield. (I'm assuming that a hand weapon like a MagBlade, being within arm's reach, will be capable of sensing the MagShield's polarity and adjusting its own field as needed. That's a little more difficult with a [possibly very] long-range weapon like a Gauss gun.) I'd go with the idea of the Gauss gun simply bashing its way through a MagShield by sheer brute force. But that's me.

 

After all, if you do use the "Gauss gun polarizes its projectile" then you don't really need Hardened on the MagShield, do you? Because a properly-adjusted polarity is supposed to make an item pass through a MagShield unhindered, right?

 

Keep the MagShield with Hardened. Keep the Gauss guns with AP. If you want to make a particular model of Gauss gun more effective against people with MagShields, then either give that particular model either AP x 2 or Penetrating in addition to the AP it already has. Then it will become a near-sure thing that it gets some damage through a MagShield, but isn't just given carte blanche to waltz right through the shield as if it weren't there.

 

It sounds like you've got the rest of it pretty well worked out in HERO terms already.

 

We possited the concept that someone with a MagBlade had a 50/50 chance of polarizing their blade properly to a MagShield, but it took a phase for the polarization to be switched. A MagShield takes a full turn to switch polarization.

 

What if there was a skill? Visualizing that the MagShield was visible, a la Dune. With a successful skill roll you would knowwhat polarity that MagShield was set to.

 

[More after lunch!]

[Heroman]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

The only thing I would say about the magshield/magblade item is this: if the technology is so prevalent, I would doubt they live with the 50/50 chance of having the right polarity. That would be like having a huge mastery of metals and making swiss cheese armor that only has a 50% chance of stopping a bullet.

At *worse* I would build the shield as a DR (only vs magnetic weapons) as it likely cycles thru polarity to slow down the attack.

 

By general rule of thumb, I would make the weapons and defenses on par with each other and any any unusual interactions with non-magnetic items, especially if the civilization developed this stuff well before any contact with other species.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

The only thing I would say about the magshield/magblade item is this: if the technology is so prevalent, I would doubt they live with the 50/50 chance of having the right polarity. That would be like having a huge mastery of metals and making swiss cheese armor that only has a 50% chance of stopping a bullet.

At *worse* I would build the shield as a DR (only vs magnetic weapons) as it likely cycles thru polarity to slow down the attack.

 

By general rule of thumb, I would make the weapons and defenses on par with each other and any any unusual interactions with non-magnetic items, especially if the civilization developed this stuff well before any contact with other species.

 

It would be prevalent, but only among the military minded/employed. I'm trying to create a number of interesting weapons that may come from a new understanding of tech beyond our meager attempts.

 

A MagShield is by no means swiss cheese. It blocks all Guass projectiles (neutral polarity) and any melee weapons with magnetic metal in it. The MagBlade is specifically made to make the MagSheild work against itself.

 

Just as convential weapons using plastic ammo.

 

The problem from a MagShield is that you can't use magnetic stuff yourself. And, an EMP discharge will knock out your MagShield.

[Old Man]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Note that a magnetic field of sufficient strength will work on living things, essentially by dragging all the electrons that are in atomic orbits, and thereby dragging the whole atoms. I distinctly remember seeing footage, a few years back, of a lab rat being harmlessly levitated in a magnetic field.

 

See also MRI technology; could be used for N-ray vision.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Note that a magnetic field of sufficient strength will work on living things, essentially by dragging all the electrons that are in atomic orbits, and thereby dragging the whole atoms. I distinctly remember seeing footage, a few years back, of a lab rat being harmlessly levitated in a magnetic field.

 

See also MRI technology; could be used for N-ray vision.

 

Neat. You could probably rubber-tech extrapolate from that idea to do magstunners pretty easy as a non lethal weapon. Possibly even built into hand to hand weapons, if sheild tech is such that it has encouraged the carrying of melee weapons (ala Dune)

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I distinctly remember seeing footage' date=' a few years back, of a lab rat being harmlessly levitated in a magnetic field.[/quote']

I saw what sounds like the same kind of demonstration, but it was a frog, not a rat. Hmmm...

 

 

(Okay, I'm brain dead from gaming until almost 4 a.m. for two nights running, or I wouldn't have just conceived of a railgun-style 'frog launcher'...)

 

(Edit: or a rail-gun style rat launcher. A...ah..."Ratling Gun"...it would have to have lots of barrels, which rotated around to launch each rat in turn...)

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Note that a magnetic field of sufficient strength will work on living things' date=' essentially by dragging all the electrons that are in atomic orbits, and thereby dragging the whole atoms. [/quote']

 

I was going to mention a few days back that a sufficiently strong magnetic field would affect any metal, but I didn't know it would affect everything. That kicks @$$!

[Old Man]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Here's a site I found that deals with the phenomenon:

 

http://www.hfml.science.ru.nl/froglev.html

 

You'll probably want to click on the 'simple explanation' link. I did.

[Old Man]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

(Edit: or a rail-gun style rat launcher. A...ah..."Ratling Gun"...it would have to have lots of barrels' date=' which rotated around to launch each rat in turn...)[/quote']

 

Repped.

[The Monster]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

The question on my mind is, given that gauss weapons are fifty-fifty, why would anyone use them? A plastic bullet works just fine, thank you, and isn't easily magnetized... for that matter, how about a high-tech (repeating?) crossbow, with wood/plastic bolts? Strikes me as cheaper and harder to magshield against.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

The question on my mind is' date=' given that gauss weapons are fifty-fifty, why would anyone use them? A plastic bullet works just fine, thank you, and isn't easily magnetized...[/quote']

Or, if you really want the kinetic energy that can be delivered by a railgun, design the slugs so that most of their mass is in a very dense plastic core, and then encase them in a metal discarding sabot. The railgun can magnetically grip the metal case to accelerate the round, and the metal case then strips itself off as it leaves the muzzle, leaving the high-velocity plastic round to pierce the magnetic shield around the target and punch a very deep hole in the target.

[austenandrews]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Here's a site I found that deals with the phenomenon:

 

http://www.hfml.science.ru.nl/froglev.html

 

You'll probably want to click on the 'simple explanation' link. I did.

Wow. That's impressive. I wonder what the insane power requirements would be to do that to a human?

[Lightray]

Don't forget that magnetism is pretty darn useful for sensors, as well. Think: MRI.

 

A magnetic sensor small and robust enough to be personal equipment is going to give great advantages to finding weak spots, survilance, etc. I'd think N-Ray Vision, Spatial Awareness, and Find Weakness are all good places to start.

 

And no reason that your aliens can't have magnetic transportation, too. Superconducting superhighways, with personal cars that function like maglev trains?

 

Off-worlder thieves are probably going to have conniptions, too. All the locks will be magnetic, not keyed...

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Note that a magnetic field of sufficient strength will work on living things, essentially by dragging all the electrons that are in atomic orbits, and thereby dragging the whole atoms. I distinctly remember seeing footage, a few years back, of a lab rat being harmlessly levitated in a magnetic field.

 

See also MRI technology; could be used for N-ray vision.

 

How do we limit it enought to keep the 'Near-Earth' feel?

 

Wouldn't there be particular requirements for it to work? Don't people have to drink something for the MRI to see human innards?

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Neat. You could probably rubber-tech extrapolate from that idea to do magstunners pretty easy as a non lethal weapon. Possibly even built into hand to hand weapons' date=' if sheild tech is such that it has encouraged the carrying of melee weapons (ala Dune)[/quote']

 

Conventional weapons are still chosen by some people for exactly this reason.

 

I'm basing the MagShield visual with a nod towards Dune actually. In accordance I might give some PER penalties.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

This is where we are so far...

 

 

Ballistic Cloth: Heavy Armor No more than 5/5 PD/ED

 

MagShield: FF 15/PD Hardened (only vs. magnetizable materials -1) OIF

 

MagBlade: (+1 d6 RKA to whatever weapon type) (only vs. opponents with a MagShield -1)

 

Vibroblade: Weapon is NND does body (DEF: MagShield)

 

Gauss Gun: RKA AP AF Increased Range (Only uses magnetic projectiles)

 

Conventional Weapon: RKA AF possible (Can use ammo of non-magnetizable projectiles)

 

Ceramic Blades - Melee weapons of hardened ceramic (non-magnetic melee weapons)

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Or' date=' if you [i']really[/i] want the kinetic energy that can be delivered by a railgun, design the slugs so that most of their mass is in a very dense plastic core, and then encase them in a metal discarding sabot. The railgun can magnetically grip the metal case to accelerate the round, and the metal case then strips itself off as it leaves the muzzle, leaving the high-velocity plastic round to pierce the magnetic shield around the target and punch a very deep hole in the target.

 

How would the sabot 'strip itself'?

 

Game mechanically how would this differ from conventional rounds within the DoS framework?

 

I like the idea and think someone could be working on this technology. I won't be stagnating the tech and don't have a problem with it slowly escalating. That is one of the reaasons I'm trying to detail where the tech is Today.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Gauss Gun: RKA AP AF Increased Range (Only uses magnetic projectiles)

You may be taking this "as read"' date=' but unless the RKA is defined as working vs. PD, the Magshield won't stop the projectile, no matter what it's made out of.

How would the sabot 'strip itself'?

 

Game mechanically how would this differ from conventional rounds within the DoS framework?

 

I like the idea and think someone could be working on this technology. I won't be stagnating the tech and don't have a problem with it slowly escalating. That is one of the reaasons I'm trying to detail where the tech is Today.

In the real world, the "discarding sabot" rounds used in some tank munitions are designed a bit like a banana. The projectile (banana fruit*) is inside the sabot (banana skin). The sabot is designed one of two ways...either with a spring-type system (kept compressed by being in the barrel) that spreads the sabot out like an umbrella when it leaves the barrel or with a little upraised "lip" at the leading edge that will "grab" the air and peel the sabot backwards along pre-defined lines (the way a banana peels back). In either case, the net result is to drastically increase the drag the sabot is feeling from the air, holding it back -- the projectile, not feeling the increased drag, flies on with its original departure velocity. So the sabot stays behind (or at least doesn't make it very far from the barrel) while the projectile flies on as indended.

 

Basically, the only game-mechanic difference would be that it would, in essence, be a non-magnetic round that you could fire from a gauss gun, and so the round would penetrate the magshield without being stopped. To represent the slug doesn't have quite the same mass (and therefore not quite the same impact power) as a fully metal slug, you might represent that by reducing the damage value of the RKA either by -1 or by 1/2d6.

 

 

* Before some smarty says so, I'm quite well aware that a banana is technically not a fruit -- it's a berry (and that the banana plant itself is technically an herb). But I didn't feel like confusing the issue by saying so above, when most people regard it as a fruit.

[dbsousa]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

How would the sabot 'strip itself'?

 

Game mechanically how would this differ from conventional rounds within the DoS framework?

 

I like the idea and think someone could be working on this technology. I won't be stagnating the tech and don't have a problem with it slowly escalating. That is one of the reaasons I'm trying to detail where the tech is Today.

If you built the metal casing so that it fit around the plastic bullet like a cup, unattached to the plastic core, the mag shield would catch the cup, but the contents would continue on their merry way.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

You may be taking this "as read"' date=' but unless the RKA is defined as working vs. PD, the Magshield won't stop the projectile, no matter what it's made out of.[/quote']

 

Yes. It is PD.

 

In the real world, the "discarding sabot" rounds used in some tank munitions are designed a bit like a banana. The projectile (banana fruit*) is inside the sabot (banana skin). The sabot is designed one of two ways...either with a spring-type system (kept compressed by being in the barrel) that spreads the sabot out like an umbrella when it leaves the barrel or with a little upraised "lip" at the leading edge that will "grab" the air and peel the sabot backwards along pre-defined lines (the way a banana peels back). In either case, the net result is to drastically increase the drag the sabot is feeling from the air, holding it back -- the projectile, not feeling the increased drag, flies on with its original departure velocity. So the sabot stays behind (or at least doesn't make it very far from the barrel) while the projectile flies on as indended.

 

Basically, the only game-mechanic difference would be that it would, in essence, be a non-magnetic round that you could fire from a gauss gun, and so the round would penetrate the magshield without being stopped. To represent the slug doesn't have quite the same mass (and therefore not quite the same impact power) as a fully metal slug, you might represent that by reducing the damage value of the RKA either by -1 or by 1/2d6.

 

 

* Before some smarty says so, I'm quite well aware that a banana is technically not a fruit -- it's a berry (and that the banana plant itself is technically an herb). But I didn't feel like confusing the issue by saying so above, when most people regard it as a fruit.

 

Good explanation... Lessening the RKA dice as opposed to removing the Armor Piercing adv for Guass is probably the way to go. Would Sabot rounds make AutoFire more difficult? Sounds like a good 'sniper' rifle ammo at this point.

 

You could have the increased range from Gauss and be able to bypass MagShields.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

If you built the metal casing so that it fit around the plastic bullet like a cup' date=' unattached to the plastic core, the mag shield would catch the cup, but the contents would continue on their merry way.[/quote']

 

This is an interesting idea as well. If the metal casing is ''open' on the end the plastic bullet would still go through. However the sabot is done, I think I'm going to use the game mechanics I detailed above.

 

As always, many thanks to my fellow Hero-philes.