Building Tech for Original Setting

[clsage]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

How do we limit it enought to keep the 'Near-Earth' feel?

 

Wouldn't there be particular requirements for it to work? Don't people have to drink something for the MRI to see human innards?

 

Nope. Just the natural reaction of hydrogen atoms to being bombarded

with high energy magnetism. That makes them (to my understanding )

"polarize" and then depolarize, creating a radio signal that the MRI's software

can read and translate into imagery.

 

Of course this implies that, in game terms, objects lacking significant

hydrogen atoms would remain opaque to the N-Ray vision in question.

 

-Carl-

[Cancer]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Nope. Just the natural reaction of hydrogen atoms to being bombarded

with high energy magnetism. That makes them (to my understanding )

"polarize" and then depolarize, creating a radio signal that the MRI's software

can read and translate into imagery.

 

Of course this implies that, in game terms, objects lacking significant

hydrogen atoms would remain opaque to the N-Ray vision in question.

 

Actually ... MRI would work with any nucleus with an odd number of either protons or neutrons (or both). That's a more limited selection than you might guess at first.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Nope. Just the natural reaction of hydrogen atoms to being bombarded

with high energy magnetism. That makes them (to my understanding )

"polarize" and then depolarize, creating a radio signal that the MRI's software

can read and translate into imagery.

 

Of course this implies that, in game terms, objects lacking significant

hydrogen atoms would remain opaque to the N-Ray vision in question.

 

-Carl-

 

Please explain what is opaque to the NRay in Doltish.

 

Thanks!

[clsage]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Actually ... MRI would work with any nucleus with an odd number of either protons or neutrons (or both). That's a more limited selection than you might guess at first.

 

Ahhh. Thanks for the (pardon the pun) "clarification".

 

-Carl-

[Old Man]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Please explain what is opaque to the NRay in Doltish.

 

After doing some google research, it's clear that the answer to this question is so complex as to be no fun in a game. In practice what the MRI really detects is the relative quantity of hydrogen in a substance, so water and fat show up brightly on the MRI. That doesn't mean that water and fat are opaque, though.

 

In the game, I'd basically treat the N-Ray as measuring density at range in a manner similar to ultrasound. However, there could be side effects:

 

As a result of the very high strength of the magnetic field needed to produce scans (frequently up to 60,000 times the earth's own magnetic field effects), there are several incidental safety issues addressed in MRI facilities. Missile-effect accidents, where ferromagnetic objects are attracted to the center of the magnet, have resulted in injury and death. It is for this reason that ferrous objects and devices are prohibited in proximity to the MRI scanner, with nonmagnetic "MRI-safe" versions of many of these objects typically retained by the scanning facility. Contrary to expectations, the magnet is energized at all times, even when it is not in use. Because of this, floor cleaning machines are often a victim of the magnet. An emergency shut-down of the magnet, an operation known as a 'quench', is costly and involves dumping liquid helium from the device. The sudden expansion of the escaping cold helium liquid into its gaseous form, and the displacement of oxygen is a hazard of its own. Because of this, if a ferromagnetic item does become lodged in the magnet, it often is carefully removed with a winch.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Holy dead Candy-stripers, Old Man!

[Lightray]

After doing some google research' date=' it's clear that the answer to this question is so complex as to be no fun in a game. In practice what the MRI really detects is the relative quantity of hydrogen in a substance, so water and fat show up brightly on the MRI. That doesn't mean that water and fat are opaque, though.[/quote']

If it's the hydrogen that's being affected, it'll mostly be water, living stuff, and plastics. Which -- since Old Man already described MRI -- I mention because you could probably use the same trick of physics that MRI uses and turn it into a weapon:

 

Death Ray. Flip that polarity often enough and fast enough, and you'll start generating some heat -- much like how microwaves operate by exciting the water molecules. Point your magnetic resonance gun at someone or something for a few seconds, and boil them alive (or melt the plastic, etc.).

 

That MRI story also just itches to be turned into some kind of Giant Magnet Trap. Maybe in areas that offworlders cause problems, they've got giant magnetizable walls around -- if someone starts a riot, the alien police throw the switch and everyone's guns and knives go flying away to the wall.

 

hope none of them have cyberware...

 

Maybe the aliens should build out of non-metallic, non-polar materials, so their own weapons can't do the same when turned on them. Ceramics, perhaps.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

 

Maybe the aliens should build out of non-metallic, non-polar materials, so their own weapons can't do the same when turned on them. Ceramics, perhaps.

Ceramics can do some pretty spiffy things.

I've had a couple of ceramic knives for my leather working, and while they have drawbacks (Fragile edges that can't be resharpened) they are sharp enough to cut you if you look at them wrong. With a brand new one, I can take a sheet of heavy (say 14-16 oz) semi hard leather (what I call armor grade) and literally hold it up and cleanly slash off a strip with steady even pressure and very little effort.

 

Good for disposable weapons that will virtually IGNORE both mag sheilds and ballistic cloth armor.

Probably illegal as all heck.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Ceramics can do some pretty spiffy things.

I've had a couple of ceramic knives for my leather working, and while they have drawbacks (Fragile edges that can't be resharpened) they are sharp enough to cut you if you look at them wrong. With a brand new one, I can take a sheet of heavy (say 14-16 oz) semi hard leather (what I call armor grade) and literally hold it up and cleanly slash off a strip with steady even pressure and very little effort.

 

Good for disposable weapons that will virtually IGNORE both mag sheilds and ballistic cloth armor.

Probably illegal as all heck.

 

Thanks! That is an excellent suggestion. I'd been considering using ceramic weapons, but I had no information about them...

 

Do you see them as Armor Piercing with charges, mayb eto reflect the shortened lifespan of their sharpness and the inability to sharpen them?

 

Good assassin weapons and not so good for war-time combat.

 

Those two things do make them sound like they should be black-listed, don't you think?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Thanks! That is an excellent suggestion. I'd been considering using ceramic weapons, but I had no information about them...

 

Do you see them as Armor Piercing with charges, mayb eto reflect the shortened lifespan of their sharpness and the inability to sharpen them?

 

Good assassin weapons and not so good for war-time combat.

 

Those two things do make them sound like they should be black-listed, don't you think?

 

Hmmm...

Either AP or Penetrating with a "not versus rigid armor" limit is probably the way to go. I originally would have said AVLD, but the magsheilds already have a "only vs magnetizable attacks" limit, so AVLD is a bit redundant.

I'd probably use Burnout rather than charges tho... the unpredictable nature of them would be better suited to it. low burnout roll on the AP/Penetrating advantage, and a higher one on the HKA... its real easy to snap the blade too. Improved ceramics techology muight make a difference here tho... but if you are going for a near earth tech level, then they will be fragile.

And yeah, I do think they should be blacklisted, covert ops/criminal toys. Especially as they probably won't show up on metal detectors and magnetic weapon scanners. (+1/4 invisible to detects)

[Cancer]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Thanks! That is an excellent suggestion. I'd been considering using ceramic weapons, but I had no information about them...

 

Do you see them as Armor Piercing with charges, mayb eto reflect the shortened lifespan of their sharpness and the inability to sharpen them?

 

Good assassin weapons and not so good for war-time combat.

 

Those two things do make them sound like they should be black-listed, don't you think?

 

My guess is that ceramic knives are useful tools in an environment where strong magnetic fields are pervasive ... turning off the field may be more expensive than is worth it just to trim insulation or whatnot, so having nonmetallic tools that remain useable in the field is standard ... so they'd be like kitchen knives, axes/hatchets/saws, and woodcarving tools in our world. They'd be available, but having them above a certain size would be a no-no.

 

Alternately, it could be that "legal" knives would be made with a few slivers of metal embedded in them, just enough so that they show up on magsensors, but not enough to compromise their utility in working in magnetic fields.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

My guess is that ceramic knives are useful tools in an environment where strong magnetic fields are pervasive ... turning off the field may be more expensive than is worth it just to trim insulation or whatnot, so having nonmetallic tools that remain useable in the field is standard ... so they'd be like kitchen knives, axes/hatchets/saws, and woodcarving tools in our world. They'd be available, but having them above a certain size would be a no-no.

 

Alternately, it could be that "legal" knives would be made with a few slivers of metal embedded in them, just enough so that they show up on magsensors, but not enough to compromise their utility in working in magnetic fields.

 

More great ideas! Keep them coming!!

[The Monster]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Stone knives! (and projectiles!)

Guard: (running magscanner): Do you have any weapons on you?

PC: No,sir, just a couple rocks in my pocket - souveniers, you know.

Guard: (checking lie detector) Okay, you're fine. Enjoy the Chairman's speech!

PC: (sotto voce) Now the chairman will finally feel the touch of justice!

 

 

More seriously, I have heard of obsidian blades being used for surgery - they are brittle, but hold a keen edge (aren't those closely related traits?).

 

 

Another random thought: magnetic satchel charges. Scattered among battlefields, they could ruin the aiming of magnetic-susceptible projectiles or even (rubber science alert) disrupt magshields for a few seconds. I figure these could be bursts of energy (kind of a magnetic equivalent of a small EMP), after which the power source burns out. These could be in the form of planted charges or artillery rounds or airdropped bombs.

 

 

 

Another random thought: doesn't heat mess up magnetism? Could this mean that flamers/flamethrowers be nasty against soldiers relying on magshields? (Of course, in system terms, a PD-only FF wouldn't stop an ED, but the rule might be that the shield is knocked down by fire or heat, at least temporarily).

 

 

Mag-seeking missiles. magshields, even personal ones, should show up like spotlights on any kind of EM detector (science nerds, please quibble). This means great targets for guided/smart ammo.

[SteelDoom]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I was going to mention a few days back that a sufficiently strong magnetic field would affect any metal' date=' but I didn't know it would affect everything. That kicks @$$![/quote']

You body is full of Iron

[clsage]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

You body is full of Iron

 

Indeed. As Magnetos guard discovered in "X-Men 2".

 

-Carl-

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Good to see this thread revived. As I move forward with the DoS: Revolution! game, I expect much of these ideas to see play. Unfortunately, I won't have any game updates until the week after Thanksgiving.

 

If you want DoS: Crashlanding updates, check the Dinosuar Planet thread. It's a pretty fun 'cross-genre' feeling game. Low on sci-fi tech, though.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I lied, the Revolution game never got off the ground. I am still positing and pondering tech for this setting, though. And, if I get the motivation may start a small campaign on Hero Central someplace in the DoS setting. I'm going to try and get the ideas I decided to go with on here in the next couple of hours.

[Old Man]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

More seriously' date=' I have heard of obsidian blades being used for surgery - they are brittle, but hold a keen edge (aren't those closely related traits?). [/quote']

 

They are. I remember seeing microscopic comparisons of a steel edge vs. a glass edge--at the same scale, the steel edge had these huge sawtooth striations, while the glass edge had only very teeny weeny sawteeth.

 

 

Another random thought: doesn't heat mess up magnetism? Could this mean that flamers/flamethrowers be nasty against soldiers relying on magshields? (Of course, in system terms, a PD-only FF wouldn't stop an ED, but the rule might be that the shield is knocked down by fire or heat, at least temporarily).

 

Heat messes up ferromagnetism, the magnetism in fridge magnets that results from all the ferrous atoms (which are inherently magnetic) being pointed in the same direction. Heat causes a breakdown of the crystalline structure and allows the atoms to point wherever they please. Note that you can magnetize just about any ferrous metal by heating it up, then keeping it in a magnetic field as it cools.

 

Electromagnetism, the magnetism that is caused by moving electrons/electrical current, is not affected by heat (except that it might melt the wires).

 

 

Mag-seeking missiles. magshields, even personal ones, should show up like spotlights on any kind of EM detector (science nerds, please quibble). This means great targets for guided/smart ammo.

 

Hmm... interesting. I suppose it could work. IRL you can't necessarily deduce the direction of a magnetic field at a distance just by looking at the magnetic field where you are. However, it might be possible to seek based on relative field strength, if you had some really sensitive magnetic field detectors. The oddity would be that such a seeker would home in on the ends of a bar magnet or electrical coil, not on the center.

 

On an almost totally unrelated subject, I have a hard time using a compass in my apartment because there are so many poorly shielded wires running through the reinforced concrete, plus I suspect the rebar itself has somehow magnetized. (No, my apartment isn't that big, I just have odd ways of amusing myself at home.)

[Cancer]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I'm teaching E&M to my class right now.

 

Any idea how fantastically hopeless it is to get Lenz's Law across to pre-meds? I think this one sets my new personal standard for "impossible tasks".

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

As long as this thread has arisen from the dead...

RE: Ceramics

I noted with interest some the recent developments in applications for carbon nanotubes. One of which was the idea of using them as "rebar" for ceramic armors, vastly increasing their ability to take punishment. The same tech should be applicable in ceramic blades, if I'm understanding things correctly.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

I believe we're mostly talking electro-magnetism as far as DoS is concerned, but I'm a clinical proven ignoramus.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

As long as this thread has arisen from the dead...

RE: Ceramics

I noted with interest some the recent developments in applications for carbon nanotubes. One of which was the idea of using them as "rebar" for ceramic armors, vastly increasing their ability to take punishment. The same tech should be applicable in ceramic blades, if I'm understanding things correctly.

 

Savinien threads never die, they simply wane poetic occasionally.

 

And get off-topic, but that's another story.

[Savinien]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

And, in another facet of Depths of Space... Let's talk space craft!

 

So far, we've established the atmospheric vehicle, the Scuttle. It was originally designed to haul payloads from the surface of a planet out too massive cargo crates for FTL travel. During the Colony Wars they were used as personnel carriers, which could intercept drop-ships, Alien style.

 

The anti-grav tech mentioned in the texts is really EM sfx and not Anti-grav, per se. So, how do the Gannans get around for longer distances such as intraRavos travel?

 

Zed has suggested Plasma engines powered by fusion encompassed with magshields. What about solar sails?

 

Discuss!

[Zed-F]

Re: Building Tech for Original Setting

 

Sav and I have been talking about how to get around and do things intrasystem (since FTL is freaking expensive and monopolized.)

 

Ganna doesn't have true AG yet, so no reactionless or inertialess drives. That means we've basically got Chemical drives, Ion drives, and Solar Sails to work with. So far I'm thinking Ion drives and maybe solar sails as a supplemental technology for long voyages. Probably laser-assisted solar sails are still in the experimental stage, if they exist at all.

 

For weapons, missles seem like the obvious first choice. I think you'd want to avoid lasers as being not sufficiently near-future. However I have read some interesting SF using mass drivers (gauss weapons) as a possible weapons technology. They require a lot of mass to be effective, but theoretically could be useful to saturate an area with high-velocity projectiles. With fusion as a power source but limited acceleration due to using Ion drives, they might be a viable weapon.

 

Thoughts?