How many Power Skills?

[Sean Waters]

I was thinking: say we have a character: Flying Force Fox who is a mutant with the ability to project a force field or concentrate it into a ranged 'force punch' (EB), has a pair of OIF high tech rocket boots and a furry magic cloak that enables the wearer to shapeshift to look like a fox.

 

If FFF wanted to be good with everything, how many Power Skills would she need to buy?

[Susano]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I was thinking: say we have a character: Flying Force Fox who is a mutant with the ability to project a force field or concentrate it into a ranged 'force punch' (EB), has a pair of OIF high tech rocket boots and a furry magic cloak that enables the wearer to shapeshift to look like a fox.

 

If FFF wanted to be good with everything, how many Power Skills would she need to buy?

 

None. Just buy some Overall Levels. The Power Skill could come into play if you decided to give her one with her force powers, or if her furry magic cloak required a Skill Roll. The boots would probably require some sort of PS or Combat Piloting of you wanted to attach a skill roll.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I would say... 3 maybe, Mutant Powers; Tech (or Rocket Boots); Magic (or Magic Cloak).

 

Though it depends on the nature of the things, with the rocket boots other skills may play a better roll such as Mecahanics, Inventor or Electronics (or even all three) so no Power Skill may be warranted for such a thing.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

None. Just buy some Overall Levels. The Power Skill could come into play if you decided to give her one with her force powers' date=' or if her furry magic cloak required a Skill Roll. The boots would probably require some sort of PS or Combat Piloting of you wanted to attach a skill roll.[/quote']

Gotta agree with Susano on this one. For Dr. Anomaly, he has two Power Skills: Gadgeteering and Magic -- but then, he has two VPPs and so needs one for each. He has some tech and some magic powers outside the pools, as well as one -- I guess you'd call it 'mutant' -- ability, but I didn't see the need for any more Power Skills than what he's got.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I can see the power skill being used to momentarily extend the force field around a friend, curve the EB around an obstacle, change to a half woman/half fox long enough to get a bonus on a PRE attack or use the rocket boots as a one off no damage KB attack.

 

None of that works with overall levels, combat piloting etc.

 

My thinking here was you could buy Power Skill with one power then, in effect, add 'Power Familiarity' for 1 point. PF adds a power or extends to cover a single framework or ight sfx linked group.

 

So if FFF bought Power Skill with Force Field, she could add her EB, SS and Flight for +3 points

[Brainstorm]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I always thought that Power Skill was basically a style thing rather than a "significant new capabilities thing." For example, here is the write-up (I'm fond of writing the hell out of any characters I use as a player or intend for recurring roles in a campaign) of the Power Skill for my eponymous character . . .

 

Brainstorm spends an inordinate amount of his spare time tinkering with playful and/or stylish applications of his powers. For example, it requires real exertion for him to muster significant telekinetic strength; but a fleeting thought is enough for him to conjure up a brief gust of wind, scattering a stack of papers or lifting a lady's skirt. He has also been known to create spontaneous rain showers suitable for drenching subjects who are not particularly evasive. While a real exercise of his power is required to do any damage with electrical phenomena, Brainstorm can effortlessly command low intensity electric arcs to dance over his body or wander through the surrounding area. He can even produce harmless little charges of static electricity at will, delivering just enough current to produce a momentary crackle and a shocking touch. Such phenomena tend to occur unpredictably in conjunction with serious exercises of his powers, yet this skill gives him the ability to command them seperately or assert more control over those that spin off from power utilization. For example, while Ride the Winds and Flowing Form rarely produce more than strong breezes or small puffs of fog respectively, Brainstorm may accentuate either power to surround himself in a mass of turbulent dark clouds flickering sporadically with internal electrical activity. In some cases these tricks are automatic (conjuring a handful of ice pellets, causing a visible spark to leap from his hand) while in others it is a real test of skill to produce precise results (producing a small ice sculpture, safely restoring some charge to a depleted battery.)

 

I think that final sentence nicely represents just what a Power Skill is. I believe anyone with "human thunderstorm powers" should be able to zing someone nearby with a non-damaging static charge or conjure up a handful of ordinary hailstones. This is a logical interpretation of the rules on incidental applications of superpower SFX. What Power Skill does is enable a level of finesse demonstrating expertise in these cantrip-like actions. If I succeed in a Storm Stunts (the name of his Power Skill) roll, that enables Brainstorm to do more impressive stuff like spelling out a word in puffs of fog or making an electric light flicker momentarily. I think it goes too far to employ Power Skill as a way to get free advantages (Usable By Others, Indirect, etc.) applied to significant Powers.

 

In that previous post, only the KB-only rocket blast seems plausible, and even then I would be inclined to make it a very mild attack rather than based on the full Active Points in the Flight Power on which it is based. Clearly minor SFX applications can rise to the level of Power emulation, since official text even provides an example of fire-based Powers justifying free Life Support vs. Intense Cold. Yet it also specifically declares that these should be minor and that any major benefits must be bought as Advantages. I suppose Power Skill might shift the line between minor and major somewhat, but I still would not be inclined to allow it to justify whipping up unpurchased Advantages on demand. In fact, the 5ER text for Power Skill expressly states . . .

 

Power isn’t a cheap substitute for a Variable Power Pool, and shouldn’t be used as one. Characters shouldn’t use Power to provide Advantages for their Powers or to overcome Limitations (except in rare circumstances), nor should it provide bonuses in combat.

 

I think Power Skill has plenty of potential for amusing roleplaying and it certainly could justify bonuses to Interactions or even PRE Attacks. Also, it seems like it ought to enhance the utility of minor SFX-based abilities, but certainly not to the extent of providing a cheap alternative to the purchase of actual Power Modifiers. On the other hand, as far as applicability goes, I consider Power Skill to be applicable to all of a character's Powers provided that there is some commonality in their SFX. A wizard who also happens to tote around some space alien's disintegrator ray gun should not be able to incorporate both into one Power Skill, but a wizard with many spells or an alien with many gadgets should be able to address them all with a single Power Skill. However, I believe any effort to build a character with the flexibility to pile real Advantages on top of Powers or simulate major new Powers through the creative use of existing Powers ought to go ahead and buy a VPP with some Limitation like "Only for modifying existing Powers" or "Only for performing plausible Power stunts." Anything less would feel like an attempted exploit to me.

 

Regards,

Brainstorm

[Bloodstone]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I think this sort of thing is very campaign dependant.

 

As written the power skill technically represents a character skill with ONE particular power. But many characters have multiple powers with one overreaching concept, liek Brick Tricks or Speedster Stunts.

 

You have to look at the other characters in the campaign to see how you are enforcing that. Unless you are gonna give some kind of bonus for specilization, you really shouldn't have general power skills like Magic Mastery and then go off and require seperate power skills for things like Necromancy, Conjuring and Thaumaturgy.

 

Are you going to tell Superman that it is ok to have a Kryptonian Bioenergy Power Skill and then turn around and tell Spider Man that he needs two skils, one for his Inorganic Web Shooters and another one for his Radioactive Spider Powers?

 

The example characters powers have absolutly no synergy at all. I have no idea if the character was designed that way or grown that way organicaly through actual play experience. Personally, as described, I might be initially inclined to purchase three seperate power skills. The character is, after all, using three entierly seperate powers with no common link.

 

However, that sort of general ruling would just end up coercing people to change thier concepts in order to save a few points at char gen. Really, is there any good mechanical reason why a sorceress that can shapechange, fly, protect herself with an armor spell and shoot bolts of eldritch energy should get to save a few points over Flying Force Fox? Probably not.

 

All the Power Skill really needs to represent is the characters ability to use her powers in clever and unusual ways. It says nothign about the source of the powers having to be the same. So just give the character one power skillto represent their "mastery" with the powers that they use on a day to day basis. Call it "Fancy Flying Force Fox Fx" or the "USS Make-Sh!t Up" and be done with it. Nowhere in the description of the skill does it demand that the powers have to have a tight SFX. Unlike, say, an EC...

[Brainstorm]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I am inclined to disagree with this . . .

 

Really' date=' is there any good mechanical reason why a sorceress that can shapechange, fly, protect herself with an armor spell and shoot bolts of eldritch energy should get to save a few points over Flying Force Fox? Probably not.[/quote']

I think it becomes clear just from the conspicuous abscence of a capital P in this line from 5ER . . .

 

This Skill represents a character’s ability to use one of his powers or abilities in creative or unusual ways.

Given how strictly edited the text is, I'm confident the "one of his powers or abilities" refers to a coherent SFX. Magic is then offered as an example, along with Prayer to imply a special sort of magic that nonetheless could encompass many Powers. Brick Tricks is another example that focuses on something coherent.

 

I believe there is a good reason some musclebound titan might be able to apply one Power Skill to creative applications of huge STR, high PD/ED, Hand-to-Hand Attacks, etc. yet not be able to apply it to a Heat Vision RKA or a Magical Cloak of Invisibility. Given one coherent special effect, the plausible applications of a Power Skill will be essentially the same. A Fancy Fire Power Skill will do what it does regardless of whether the user has a single basic fire-based RKA or a dozen fiery forms of attack with even more non-attack fire-based Powers. The Power Skill is about what can be done with a coherent special ability.

 

On the other hand a bogus All My Stuff is Cool Power Skill bought for a character with some cold-based Powers, some psychic Powers, a suit of high tech armor, and knowledge of a few magic Powers would enable cold tricks and psychic tricks and armored dude tricks and magic tricks all at once. Because the nature of what a Power Skill can actually do is derivative of SFX, it seems entirely sensible to apply them in such a manner. I would not deny that a loose SFX can be appropriate for a Power Skill, but developing exceptional finesse with all aspects of a build that truly features multiple distinct SFX should require multiple Power Skills.

 

Regards,

Brainstorm

[Bloodstone]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Perhaps I worded that poorly...

 

When I say one power I'm not talking about one single Power as in an EB or a Transform. I'm refering to one power like Super Man's Super Strength or Spidy's Web Shooters.

 

By contrast, Brick Tricks or Speedster Stunts encompases an entire "archtypes" worth of stunts. Certainly once you get to a Kryptonian Solar Powered Bad *** Power skill, were talkign about doign a lot with a single skill.

 

I don't care if you let Spiderman get off with a single "Spider Stunts" power skill or you make him purchase four seperate ones for all the things he can now do. What matters most to me is that the ruling is internally consistant within the campaign. If you went with the single power skill for Spidy, then I certainly hope Archangel doesn't suddenly need a new power skill because he has a "radiation accident" that turns his feathers into razor blades or his blood into a healing salve. By contrast if Spidy needs five power skills for his webs, super strength, spider sense, super agility and subatomic cohesion control, then Archangel definitly shouldn't catch a break and shouldn't be abnle to do any neat trick with his healing blood or metalic wings until he grabs an appropriate new power skill.

 

But, going with the former option will not discourage or reward any one concept ovar another. Going with the latter option will.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

If FFF wanted to be good with everything' date=' how many Power Skills would she need to buy?[/quote']

 

Define "good."

 

I can see the power skill being used to momentarily extend the force field around a friend, curve the EB around an obstacle, change to a half woman/half fox long enough to get a bonus on a PRE attack or use the rocket boots as a one off no damage KB attack.

 

All the force stuff you can use Power Skill: Force Manipulation (duh)

 

For the half/half PRE Attack, just do it; magic cloaks are cool like that (IMO).

 

KB Attack. I disbelieve in "Power: Rocket Boots" skill, but I might allow it with a DEX Roll (with penalties) and/or an Acrobatics/Contortionist Roll (also with penalties).

 

So going from your last post, I'd say just one Power Skill would work.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I like Dust Raven's ideas better than my own. Go with those.

[Susano]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I like Dust Raven's ideas better than my own. Go with those.

 

Ditto. He said for more eloquently what I was trying to get across.

[Lucius]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Having slept on it...

 

I'd say you could do it one of two ways.

 

You COULD have a skill with all your own powers. That would work, but ONLY very specifically on your own powers. You might use it to work the "partial shapeshift just long enough to get a PRE bonus" but it could NOT tell you if any item you find (like take off a captured villain) is magickal, let alone what it can do. This would represent familiarity with only your OWN powers.

 

Or, you could take one or more of more general skills like Sorcery, Gadgeteer, Electronics, Mechanics, etc, that would have a lot more application, but only apply to SOME of your own powers.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

With the Ride Palindromedary Skill

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I like Dust Raven's ideas better than my own. Go with those.

Ditto. He said for more eloquently what I was trying to get across.

Yeah, DR has a habit of doing things like that.

 

We don't need his kind around here, with their "sense" and their "more eloquent-than-thou" attitude!

 

 

 

 

 

( )

[Sean Waters]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Just to be clear, FFF is a made-up-for-illustrative-purposes character, but based loosely on Silverfire (a green lantern type with TK and force fileds/force walls and flight who subsequently, through the course of adventures did some pretty major favours for a couple of Norse Gods and was made an honourary Valkyrie, being presented with magic chain mail armour. OK, not that closely )

 

The point of the question is one of general applicability though. I like the idea of the power skill, and frankly, I wouldn't care too much if it was used as a sort of VPP in many cases, although that is just personal opinion not something I think should be widely adopted.

 

Point is the bit I like is the idea that powers have a 'powerfulness' component and a 'skillfulness' component, and whilst the former is generally more important in a straight fight, someone with high skill can sometimes trump someone with high power. Skill, to me goes way beyond whether you are good at hitting and into actual application. The comics are full of examples of experienced characters beating tough opponents with little used subtlties of their powers.

 

Now, to me, a game can be considerably improved by encouraging players to be creative in play with their characters and their abilites. The power skill seems to encourage this.

 

My take would be to say you could buy the power skill to cover a single power or a tight group linked by a framework or that could be if you'd bought it as an EC. If you want that flexibility with other powers you should buy a seperate power skill with them, so FFF would need 3 by my reckonning.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Define "good."

 

 

OK

 

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11 entries found for good.

good ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gd)

adj. bet·ter, (btr) best (bst)

Being positive or desirable in nature; not bad or poor: a good experience; good news from the hospital.

 

Having the qualities that are desirable or distinguishing in a particular thing: a good exterior paint; a good joke.

Serving the desired purpose or end; suitable: Is this a good dress for the party?

 

Not spoiled or ruined: The milk is still good.

In excellent condition; sound: a good tooth.

 

Superior to the average; satisfactory: a good student.

Used formerly to refer to the U.S. Government grade of meat higher than standard and lower than choice.

 

Of high quality: good books.

Discriminating: good taste.

Worthy of respect; honorable: ruined the family's good name.

Attractive; handsome: good looks.

Beneficial to health; salutary: a good night's rest.

Competent; skilled: a good machinist.

Complete; thorough: a good workout.

 

Reliable; sure: a good investment.

Valid or true: a good reason.

Genuine; real: a good dollar bill.

 

In effect; operative: a warranty good for two years; a driver's license that is still good.

Able to continue in a specified activity: I'm good for another round of golf.

 

Able to pay or contribute: Is she good for the money that you lent her?

Able to elicit a specified reaction: He is always good for a laugh.

 

Ample; substantial: a good income.

Bountiful: a good table.

Full: It is a good mile from here.

 

Pleasant; enjoyable: had a good time at the party.

Propitious; favorable: good weather; a good omen.

 

Of moral excellence; upright: a good person.

Benevolent; kind: a good soul; a good heart.

Loyal; staunch: a good Republican.

 

Well-behaved; obedient: a good child.

Socially correct; proper: good manners.

Sports.

Landing within bounds or within a particular area of a court and therefore in play: The first serve was wide, but the second was good.

Passing between the uprights of the goal and therefore scoring, as a field goal in football.

Used to form exclamatory phrases expressing surprise or dismay: Good heavens! Good grief!

 

n.

 

Something that is good.

A good, valuable, or useful part or aspect.

Welfare; benefit: for the common good.

Goodness; virtue: There is much good to be found in people.

goods

Commodities; wares: frozen goods.

Portable personal property.

(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Fabric; material.

goods Slang. Incriminating information or evidence: tried to get the goods on the crook.

 

adv. Informal

Well.

 

Idioms:

as good as

Practically; nearly: as good as new.

but good

Informal Used as an intensive: The pipe started to leak but good.

for good

Permanently; forever: I'm moving to Europe for good.

good and

Informal Very; thoroughly: I'll do it when I'm good and ready.

no good Informal

Worthless.

Futile; useless: It's no good arguing with them.

to the good

For the best; advantageous.

In an advantageous financial position: ended up to the good.

 

 

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[Middle English, from Old English gd. See ghedh- in Indo-European Roots.]

Usage Note: Good is properly used as an adjective with linking verbs such as be, seem, or appear: The future looks good. The soup tastes good. It should not be used as an adverb with other verbs: The car runs well (not good). Thus, The dress fits well and looks good. See Usage Note at well2.

 

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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

bet·ter1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (btr)

adj. Comparative of good.

Greater in excellence or higher in quality.

More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.

More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.

Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.

More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.

Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.

 

adv. Comparative of well2.

In a more excellent way.

 

To a greater extent or degree: better suited to the job; likes it better without sauce.

To greater advantage; preferably: a deed better left undone. See Usage Note at best. See Usage Note at have. See Usage Note at rather.

More: It took me better than a year to recover.

 

n.

One that is greater in excellence or higher in quality.

A superior, as in standing, competence, or intelligence. Usually used in the plural: to learn from one's betters.

 

v. bet·tered, bet·ter·ing, bet·ters

v. tr.

To make better; improve: trying to better conditions in the prison; bettered myself by changing jobs. See Synonyms at improve.

To surpass or exceed.

 

v. intr.

To become better.

 

Idioms:

better off

In a better or more prosperous condition: would be better off taking the train instead of driving; felt better off after the rise in stock prices.

for the better

Resulting in or aiming at an improvement: Her condition took a turn for the better.

get/have the better of

To outdo or outwit; defeat.

think better of

To change one's mind about (a course of action) after reconsideration: I almost bought an expensive watch, but then I thought better of it.

 

 

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[Middle English, from Old English betera. See bhad- in Indo-European Roots.]

 

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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

bet·ter2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (btr)

n.

Variant of bettor.

 

[Download Now or Buy the Book]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

best ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bst)

adj. Superlative of good.

Surpassing all others in excellence, achievement, or quality; most excellent: the best performer; the best grade of ore.

Most satisfactory, suitable, or useful; most desirable: the best solution; the best time for planting.

Greatest; most: He spoke for the best part of an hour.

Most highly skilled: the best doctor in town.

 

adv. Superlative of well2.

In a most excellent way; most creditably or advantageously.

To the greatest degree or extent; most: “He was certainly the best hated man in the ship†(W. Somerset Maugham).

 

n.

One that surpasses all others.

The best part, moment, or value: The best is still to come. Let's get the best out of life.

The optimum condition or quality: look your best. She was at her best in the freestyle competition.

One's nicest or most formal clothing.

The supreme effort one can make: doing our best.

One's warmest wishes or regards: Give them my best.

 

tr.v. best·ed, best·ing, bests

To get the better of; beat: “I'm a rough customer, I expect, but I know when I'm bested†(Nathanael West).

 

Idioms:

at best

Interpreted most favorably; at the most: no more than 40 people at best in attendance.

Under the most favorable conditions: has a top speed of 20 miles per hour at best.

for the best

With an ultimately positive or preferable result.

get/have the best of

To outdo or outwit; defeat: My opponent got the best of me in the debate.

make the best of

Accept (a bad situation) in as good a light as possible.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from Old English betst. See bhad- in Indo-European Roots.]

Usage Note: According to a traditional rule of grammar, better, not best, should be used in comparisons between two things: Which house of Congress has the better attendance record? This rule is often ignored in practice, but it still has many devoted adherents. In certain fixed expressions, however, best is used idiomatically for comparisons between two: Put your best foot forward. May the best team win! See Usage Note at have. See Usage Note at rather.

 

[Download Now or Buy the Book]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

 

good

 

In addition to the idioms beginning with good, also see bad (good) sort; but good; do any good; do good; do one good; for good; for good measure; get on someone's good side; get out while the getting is good; give a good account of oneself; give as good as one gets; have a good command of; have a good mind to; have a good thing going; have a good time; hold good; ill wind (that blows nobody any good); in all good conscience; in bad (good) faith; in (good) condition; in due course (all in good time); in good; in good hands; in good part; in good spirits; in good time; in good with; in someone's good graces; keep (good) time; make good; make good time; make someone look good; miss is as good as a mile; never had it so good; no good; no news is good news; not the only fish (other good fish) in the sea; one good turn deserves another; on good terms; on one's best (good) behavior; put in a good word; put to good use; show someone a good time; show to (good) advantage; so far so good; stand in good stead; take in good part; throw good money after bad; to good purpose; too good to be true; too much of a good thing; to the good; turn to (good account); up to no good; well and good; what's the good of; with good grace; world of good; your guess is as good as mine. Also see under goodness; goods.

 

 

 

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.

Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

 

 

Main Entry: good

Function: adjective

Inflected Forms: bet·ter; best

1 : commercially sound or reliable

2 a : valid or effectual under the law b : free of defects

3 a : characterized by honesty and fairness b : conforming to a standard of virtue ; also : characterized by or relating to good behavior

 

 

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

 

 

Main Entry: good

Function: noun

1 : advancement of prosperity and well-being

2 : an item of tangible movable personal property having value but usually excluding money, securities, and negotiable instruments —usually used in pl.: as a plural : all things under section 2-105 of the Uniform Commercial Code that are movable at the time of identification to the contract for sale other than the money that is to be paid, investment securities, and choses in action b plural : all things under section 9-104 of the Uniform Commercial Code that are movable at the time that a security interest in them attaches or that are fixtures but excluding money, documents, instruments, accounts, chattel paper, general intangibles, and minerals or the like before extraction

 

 

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consumer goods

: goods purchased primarily for personal, family, or household uses

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du·ra·ble goods

: consumer goods that last and are used for a number of years : DURABLES

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fungible goods

: goods of which any unit is by nature or by usage of trade the equivalent of any other unit esp. as defined by section 1-201 of the Uniform Commercial Code

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fu·ture goods

: goods that are the subject of a contract but are not yet existing or specified

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hard goods

: DURABLE GOODS in this entry

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house·hold goods

: goods used in connection with the home; specifically : furniture, furnishings, and personal effects used in a dwelling as defined by section 7-209 of the Uniform Commercial Code

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mo·bile goods

: goods as defined in section 9-103 of the Uniform Commercial Code that are mobile, are of a type (as vehicles) usually used in more than one jurisdiction, are not covered by a certificate of title, and are either the equipment of a debtor or inventory leased by a debtor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

or·di·nary goods

: goods as defined by section 9-103 of the Uniform Commercial Code that are anything other than those covered by a certificate of title, mobile goods, or minerals

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pro·duc·er goods

: goods (as tools and raw materials) used to produce other goods and satisfy human wants only indirectly

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soft goods

: consumer goods that are not durable goods

 

 

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

 

 

good

 

adj 1: having desirable or positive qualities especially those suitable for a thing specified; "good news from the hospital"; "a good report card"; "when she was good she was very very good"; "a good knife is one good for cutting"; "this stump will make a good picnic table"; "a good check"; "a good joke"; "a good exterior paint"; "a good secretary"; "a good dress for the office" [ant: bad] 2: having the normally expected amount; "gives full measure"; "gives good measure"; "a good mile from here" [syn: full] 3: morally admirable [ant: evil] 4: deserving of esteem and respect; "all respectable companies give guarantees"; "ruined the family's good name" [syn: estimable, honorable, respectable] 5: promoting or enhancing well-being; "an arms limitation agreement beneficial to all countries"; "the beneficial effects of a temperate climate"; "the experience was good for her" [syn: beneficial] 6: superior to the average; "in fine spirits"; "a fine student"; "made good grades"; "morale was good"; "had good weather for the parade" [syn: fine] 7: agreeable or pleasing; "we all had a good time"; "good manners" 8: of moral excellence; "a genuinely good person"; "a just cause"; "an upright and respectable man"; "the life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful, and virtuous"- Frederick Douglass [syn: just, upright, virtuous] 9: having or showing knowledge and skill and aptitude; "adept in handicrafts"; "an adept juggler"; "an expert job"; "a good mechanic"; "a practiced marksman"; "a proficient engineer"; "a lesser-known but no less skillful composer"; "the effect was achieved by skillful retouching" [syn: adept, expert, practiced, proficient, skillful, skilful] 10: thorough; "had a good workout"; "gave the house a good cleaning" 11: with or in a close or intimate relationship; "a good friend"; "my sisters and brothers are near and dear" [syn: dear, near] 12: having or showing or arising from a desire to promote the welfare or happiness of others; "his benevolent smile"; "a benevolent nature" [syn: benevolent] [ant: malevolent] 13: financially sound; "a good investment"; "a secure investment" [syn: dependable, safe, secure] 14: most suitable or right for a particular purpose; "a good time to plant tomatoes"; "the right time to act"; "the time is ripe for great sociological changes" [syn: right, ripe] 15: resulting favorably; "its a good thing that I wasn't there"; "it is good that you stayed"; "it is well that no one saw you"; "all's well that ends well" [syn: well(p)] 16: exerting force or influence; "the law is effective immediately"; "a warranty good for two years"; "the law is already in effect (or in force)" [syn: effective, in effect(p), in force(p)] 17: feeling healthy and free of aches and pains; "I feel good" [syn: good(p)] 18: capable of pleasing; "good looks" 19: appealing to the mind; "good music"; "a serious book" [syn: serious] 20: in excellent physical condition; "good teeth"; "I still have one good leg"; "a sound mind in a sound body" [syn: sound] 21: tending to promote physical well-being; beneficial to health; "beneficial effects of a balanced diet"; "a good night's sleep"; "the salutary influence of pure air" [syn: beneficial, salutary] 22: not forged; "a good dollar bill" 23: not left to spoil; "the meat is still good" [syn: unspoiled, unspoilt] 24: generally admired; "good taste" n 1: benefit; "for your own good"; "what's the good of worrying?" 2: moral excellence or admirableness; "there is much good to be found in people" [syn: goodness] [ant: evil] 3: that which is good or valuable or useful; "weigh the good against the bad"; "among the highest goods of all are happiness and self-realization" [syn: goodness] [ant: bad] adv 1: (often used as a combining form) in a good or proper or satisfactory manner or to a high standard (`good' is a nonstandard dialectal variant for `well'); "the children behaved well"; "a task well done"; "the party went well"; "he slept well"; "a well-argued thesis"; "a well-planned party"; "the baby can walk pretty good" [syn: well] [ant: ill] 2: in a complete and thorough manner (`good' is sometimes used informally for `thoroughly'); "he was soundly defeated"; "we beat him good" [syn: thoroughly, soundly]

 

 

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

 

 

good

 

 

 

Graph-Oriented Object Database

 

 

 

Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2005 Denis Howe

 

 

good

 

GOOD: in Acronym Finder

 

 

Source: Acronym Finder, © 1988-2004 Mountain Data Systems

 

 

good

 

good: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary

 

 

Source: On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB

 

 

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OK, that was dictionary.com defining good. I'm defining it as the ability to use a power in interesting and creative ways. I'm saying power skill is the game mechanic that allows such flexibility. Generally I require power skill useage to take a half phase action in addition to any time the power takes to use, and if you fail the roll you either get no result or an unpredicatable result, but in either case suffer any penaly (like END use) that actually using the power would have imposed.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Yeah, DR has a habit of doing things like that.

 

We don't need his kind around here, with their "sense" and their "more eloquent-than-thou" attitude!

 

 

 

 

 

( )

 

It was an accident! Honest!

 

 

[Dust Raven]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

OK

 

Imagine this is a different finger:

 

 

 

OK, that was dictionary.com defining good. I'm defining it as the ability to use a power in interesting and creative ways. I'm saying power skill is the game mechanic that allows such flexibility. Generally I require power skill useage to take a half phase action in addition to any time the power takes to use, and if you fail the roll you either get no result or an unpredicatable result, but in either case suffer any penaly (like END use) that actually using the power would have imposed.

 

I would differ only in saying that the Power Skill is a game mechanic that allows such flexibility, rather than the game mechanic. A Characteristic Roll, or a creative use of another Skill could also allow that kind of flexibility.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Just to be clear, FFF is a made-up-for-illustrative-purposes character, but based loosely on Silverfire (a green lantern type with TK and force fileds/force walls and flight who subsequently, through the course of adventures did some pretty major favours for a couple of Norse Gods and was made an honourary Valkyrie, being presented with magic chain mail armour. OK, not that closely )

 

The point of the question is one of general applicability though. I like the idea of the power skill, and frankly, I wouldn't care too much if it was used as a sort of VPP in many cases, although that is just personal opinion not something I think should be widely adopted.

 

Point is the bit I like is the idea that powers have a 'powerfulness' component and a 'skillfulness' component, and whilst the former is generally more important in a straight fight, someone with high skill can sometimes trump someone with high power. Skill, to me goes way beyond whether you are good at hitting and into actual application. The comics are full of examples of experienced characters beating tough opponents with little used subtlties of their powers.

 

Now, to me, a game can be considerably improved by encouraging players to be creative in play with their characters and their abilites. The power skill seems to encourage this.

 

My take would be to say you could buy the power skill to cover a single power or a tight group linked by a framework or that could be if you'd bought it as an EC. If you want that flexibility with other powers you should buy a seperate power skill with them, so FFF would need 3 by my reckonning.

I agree completely with this assesment, I would also add that the Powerskill should allow a character to combine two powers of the same SFX in interesting ways - no just Multiple Power Attacks, but for new and spiffy effects, especially if they enhance the story.

[Lucius]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

I agree completely with this assesment' date=' I would also add that the Powerskill should allow a character to combine two powers of the same SFX in interesting ways - no just Multiple Power Attacks, but for new and spiffy effects, especially if they enhance the story.[/quote']

 

Then what would allow combining two or more powers of DIFFERENT SFX?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Distinctive Features: Bicephalous verbivorous beast.

[radioKAOS]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

OK, that was dictionary.com defining good. I'm defining it as the ability to use a power in interesting and creative ways. I'm saying power skill is the game mechanic that allows such flexibility. Generally I require power skill useage to take a half phase action in addition to any time the power takes to use, and if you fail the roll you either get no result or an unpredicatable result, but in either case suffer any penaly (like END use) that actually using the power would have imposed.

 

What I love about you Sean is that you're not a smarta**.

 

Oh wait.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

Then what would allow combining two or more powers of DIFFERENT SFX?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Distinctive Features: Bicephalous verbivorous beast.

Several Power Skills used in conjuction, good plot/story reasons and a cooperative GM.

[Brainstorm]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

There seems to be some misconception about what Power Skill actually is. The official text is extremely clear that it is not to be a source of free Advantages nor a ludicrously cheap VPP. Some of the ambiguity seems to come from the fact that there is a quasi-exploit available in character builds that employ a diverse assortment of SFX. In most situations where the Power Skill would be relevant, either characters will by nature depend on a single SFX for the bulk of their Powers (a stock Fantasy Hero wizard, for example,) or be rewarded for having a coherent concept SFX-wise (superheroes built with certain Frameworks.) In theory, and perhaps in the practice of some campaigns, building a character whose powers feature a hodgepodge of diverse SFX actually is no more costly than building a statistically identical character with more tightly related SFX. Where allowed this constitutes a mild exploit because of the way each SFX carries with it an assortment of minor applications that may be genuinely useful even if not so much so as to warrant purchase as seperate Powers.

 

Incentives for coherent character builds not only promote real thought about concept as an alternative to building solely on the basis of maximum combat effectiveness, but they also reflect how a character with tight SFX has much less in the way of incidental SFX abilities than a character with a broad mix of SFX. The actual Powers are virtually irrelevant here. If Megabalrog and Kandle Kid both take a Fiery Feats Power Skill, then they both get pretty much the same thing for those three points. It doesn't matter that Megabalrog can incenerate a city block with his 10D6 Area Effect RKA and Kandle Kid might not even leave a mark lashing out with his 2D6 EB. It does not matter that Megabalrog has twenty-eight fire-based Powers while Kandle Kid has just the one. What they get with the Power Skill is not a VPP or freebie Advantages -- what they get is the ability to be more precise, impressive, stylish, etc. in the minor incidental applications of the fire SFX.

 

Both of them could warm up a room or ignite a bonfire without any regard to Power Skill at all. However, if Kandle Kid had it and Megabalrog did not, then perhaps the Kid would be able to light a cigarette without burning a smoker's face or precisely brand a symbol into a piece of wood, while Megabalrog would unable to control fire with such subtlety. There are even some circumstances where this Skill could be truly useful rather than stylish. Imagine, as an example, that a vial containing a culture of some fantastically deadly disease were to shatter atop huge block of volatile high explosive material. The culture must be incinerated before anyone is infected, but it cannot be handled and it is right on top of enough incendiary material to kill plenty of neighborhood bystanders. Megabalrog may have no Limitations on any of his Powers, and may well have it within his ability to throw a 1 pip RKA with extraordinary OCV. On the other hand, Kandle Kid is comparatively inaccurate when it comes to attacks, but his Power Skill does allow him to direct fire with pinpoint accuracy when he has the time to focus on a non-combat application. I may be better off with the absurdly strong and richly diverse Powers of Megabalrog on my side when facing down an army of rabid werewolves, but Kandle Kid becomes the guy I want on my side if I am looking to survive the "level 5 biohazard perched atop an explosives stockpile" deathtrap.

 

Of course, Megabalrog could purchase Fiery Feats for the same cost as Kandle Kid did, and the more powerful character may even get more bang for his buck in terms of being able to scorch patterns into a few acres of grass as well as branding small objects, for example. However, and this is the key consideration, 5ER deliberately does not use the capital P in "one of his powers or abilities," because Power Skill is not about enhancing Powers but rather about finessing powers. As a GM I would let the nature and magnitude of Powers inform judgements about what is and is not possible through the use of Power Skill. However, I would not make the clear mistake of allowing it to provide significant performance enhancements to Powers that should instead be enhanced by actually buying the appropriate Advantages, extra AP, Combat Skill Levels, etc. Brick Tricks is not a bonus Damage Class for less than the cost of 5 points of STR, nor is it a cheap way for someone to make his HTH-Attacks Penetrating. It is just a way to do more fancy or fun or creative little things with the traditional strength and resilience of the brick archetype.

 

I suppose I could see some flexibility in letting a player define a Power Skill appropriate to his character even with a fair degree of diversity in SFX. However, there are definitely limits to what I mean when I say "fair degree." If I had a campaign where one mutant superhero bought a Power Skill just for stunts based on his metahuman electrical abilities, I certainly would not allow a spellcasting elementalist in the same campaign to buy one Power Skill and apply it across the board to fire and ice and lightning. If we found ourselves in play with that imbalance, and it was a source of real tension in the group, I might well intervene to make the elementalist pick a speciality or purchase two more Power Skills or even define his Power Skill in a way that it was about the exercise of magic itself (an assortment of cantrip-like effects and if that was not sufficiently useful perhaps something like allowing the occassional Skill Roll to hold Concentration through a normally distracting event.) Regarding the FFF example, my inclination would be to require three Power Skills for doing little tricks with force fields, magic items, and gadgets. Yet I suspect a player who made a big stink about the contrary position would be inclined to spend the points elsewhere when informed that I would not allow a Power Skill to substitute for much more costly Advantages nor simulate new Powers of any significant magnitude.

 

In fact, with the write up for Brainstorm excerpted earlier in the thread, I debated how to handle it since the character combines storm-themed Powers with some more generic Mental Powers. In the end I wrote Storm Stunts to do some Telekinesis-like things since that capability was clearly based on controlling wind and creating little cyclones to generate lift. Yet I did not let it apply to any tricks resembling Ego Attack, Telepathy, EGO Drain, or Mind Control because those Powers, even if they may manifest clouds or breezes when in use, are only superficially connected to the "human thunderstorm" SFX. Ultimately, the Power Skill was about finesse in the control of wind, precipitation, and lightning -- a reasonably tight SFX group from my perspective. If I wanted the same level of stylish/fun/creative control over the other chief aspect of his metahuman abilities, I would have made up and added something like a Mentalist Maneuvers Power Skill.

 

Also, it is again worth noting that even without the Power Skill, many minor effects can be achieved simply by exerting the power (note the small p) associated with a particular SFX. Perhaps the best way to understand it is by comparison to another Skill like Oratory or Climbing. Any unimpaired Normal can make a speech to a crowd or climb over a chain link fence. Yet with the right sort of training/experience, it becomes possible to deliver a truly stirring speech or scale a much more challenging barrier. Power Skill represents the application of that sort of expertise to the utilization of SFX-related abilities. Any superhero who can conjure up shards of ice at will ought to have an SFX useful for cooling objects. Yet the precision Power Skill offers might make the difference between chilling a drink to the perfect temperature or serving party guests solidified beverages. Likewise, a sufficiently powerful laser rifle should have no trouble cutting through common building materials, but Power Skill may be just the thing for a gunslinger who likes to carve his detailed personal emblem into a wall at the end of any significant battle. In any case, I've already rambled on at length. Hopefully this will shed more light on why I agree with the "FFF could buy three different Power Skills" people and in general how I interpret this interesting little feature of the Hero System.

 

Regards,

Brainstorm

 

P.S. As long as I wrote all that, I thought I might also directly and succinctly answer the question of the moment . . .

 

Then what would allow combining two or more powers of DIFFERENT SFX?

Power Skill is irrelevant to that question. It is far less about the modification of built Powers than it is about the exercise of minor incidental capabilities derivative of SFX. If you want to modify a Power, then change the way that Power is built. If you want to get fancy with SFX themselves, that is when Power Skill is the right way to go.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

One of the ways we use Power Skill is for the character to come up with either modified or new SFX based powers on a one off, and then eventually work that into a full fledged power in their repetoire - such as tuning their EB into EB:AP for that last ditch effort in the big fight going the wrong way for the team, if it works cool, and perhaps the Player now has a reason to add a different EB onto the Character - who just learned a new way of controlling their powers.

 

So - in some instances yes we do allow an advantage/adder onto the power - though we do not let that exceed AP Caps (if any) - with the Power Skill. But it's not just for any situation at whim, there has to be sufficient story reason to do so.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How many Power Skills?

 

OMG. People are writing books again. I'm out.