"Tag Along" movement power

[bigdamnhero]

One of the PCs in my new Champions group wants to be able to piggyback on other people's movement abilities. In other words, he doesn't have flight himself, but if another character has flight (or hyper-running or leaping or whatever) he can hitch a ride with them, even if the 2d PC doesn't have "usable on others" for his flight.

 

I think it's a clever idea, and it fits the character, but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to model it. Transfer isn't right, because he doesn't want to lower the 2d PC's movement. I considered just having him buy Flight with a "only to hitchhike on other flyers" limitation, but then he can't use it with leaping/swinging/tunneling/etc. Essentially, I just want him to be able to grant "useable on others" to other people's movement abilities, but then I'd have to buy UOO as a naked modifier, and I'd need to buy it with UOO as an advantage to the naked modifier...

 

...which is when smoke started coming out of my ears and I decided to call for backup. Any ideas?

 

 

bigdamnhero

"Okay, we made a mistake. I'm sorry. Here, open my wrist."

"Centauri don't have major arteries in their wrist."

"Of course we don't. What do you think, I'm stupid?"

[McCoy]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

A naked useable by others advantage that can be applyed to others movement powers

 

OR

 

clinging, useable at range, invisible power effect

 

OR

 

a small VPP, can only copy movement powers, only while they are in use.

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Well the primary traveller could just carry him

 

I sense, however, that is not what you are after. Leaving aside, for the moment, inventive uses of transform and EDM (I'm watching you, Duke ), all you really need is the naked UOO advantage, advantaged - if you'd waited for the smoke to clear you'd have realised you were already there .

 

1st pick how much movement he can share (say 60 active points should more than cover it), then buy UOO (simultaneously) for +1/2, or 30 points to be able to copy any movement power TO someone he is touching. OK, so that is the power, but then you need to be able to give it to someone else, so we need UOO at the +1/4 level applied to the naked advantage, so it costs 37 points to be able to give UOO to someone else so that they can let you copy them. You can (if you like) reduce the cost with CAN NOT GRANT OWN MOVEMENT POWERS TO OTHERS (-1/2), for a final cost of 25 points. He will have to pay END for the UOO (4 points) as well as for any movement power he is granted.

 

Using the power at range and reducing END cost wiill hike up the price and it only works if the intended target allows you to share movement.

 

Assuming that they do, I'll go back to my first suggestion: couldn't he just be carried?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

I've been running over this one in my head for a bit. I thought about a VPP but you really need at least 48 points in the pool and that makes for an expensive power. So then I figured that the only ones that really apply to this power are Running, Swimming, Leaping and Flight. Teleportation and EDM don't fit and Gliding can be simulated through Flight. Swinging 99% of the time requires a focus so I can't see it possible.

 

Movement Mimicry Elemental Control (24 Points): Can Only Use Power if moving Alongside Someone and Power Is Restricted to Their Maximum (-2). 8 points.

1) Run! 24" Running. Total Cost: 8 points.

2) Leap! 38" Leaping, Accurate, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

3) Glide/Fly! 24" Flight. Total Cost: 8 points.

4) Swim! 38" Swimming, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

 

40 points total.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Oh wow!

 

Right you are, Sean---

 

a _third_ thread in which to suggest Useable by Others, advantaged by Useable as Attack!

 

You know, cheezy or not, I'm starting to see some real justifications for this once amusement-based suggestion....

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

I've been running over this one in my head for a bit. I thought about a VPP but you really need at least 48 points in the pool and that makes for an expensive power. So then I figured that the only ones that really apply to this power are Running, Swimming, Leaping and Flight. Teleportation and EDM don't fit and Gliding can be simulated through Flight. Swinging 99% of the time requires a focus so I can't see it possible.

 

Movement Mimicry Elemental Control (24 Points): Can Only Use Power if moving Alongside Someone and Power Is Restricted to Their Maximum (-2). 8 points.

1) Run! 24" Running. Total Cost: 8 points.

2) Leap! 38" Leaping, Accurate, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

3) Glide/Fly! 24" Flight. Total Cost: 8 points.

4) Swim! 38" Swimming, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

 

40 points total.

 

 

 

I suppose it depends on how the power is supposed to work, but if it is 'I can do what you can do' then it could be ANY movement power, I suppose. Gets kinda expensive kinda quick.

 

Might it not be cheaper to load it all into a MP as you rarely use multiple modes simultaneously: a 16 point pool and 1 point slots (with the -2 limitation)

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Oh wow!

 

Right you are, Sean---

 

a _third_ thread in which to suggest Useable by Others, advantaged by Useable as Attack!

 

You know, cheezy or not, I'm starting to see some real justifications for this once amusement-based suggestion....

 

Trouble is the only other ways to grant a power to someone who doesn't already have it involves the 'T' word or another dimension.

 

Time for a new power: anyone seen Christopher Mullins about?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Looks like I got to this party a bit late, and the suggestion I would have made (UBO [simultaneously], UAA) has already been made.

 

...but that won't stop me from making another suggestion!

 

It'd be more expensive -- probably a lot more expensive, but...

 

There are 10 Movement Powers (counting FTL and X-Dim).

 

Buy one inches-based Movement Power -- the most expensive one -- with as many inches of movement as you want to be able to "tag along" with.

 

Then buy "Usable as [another movement mode]" 9 times, naming each of the other 9 Movement modes.

 

That's a +2 1/4 Advantage on the cost of the Movement Power you're using as a base, which more than triples its cost.

 

Now apply a Limitation like "Only to mimic a Movement Power used by another character I'm touching, only up to my max movement or his [whichever is less], and only to travel along with him, taking the same route to the same destination (-2)".

 

It's still gonna be pretty costly compared to the UBO/UAA method, and it's also going to have an upper end limit (however many inches of Movement you bought) -- which the UBO/UAA method doesn't.

 

And for tagging along with those really fast movers, you may want to invest in a few levels of Scalable Megascale so you can keep up with a person using a Megascaled Movement Power. But that increases the cost even more.

 

But it is a viable approach...

[EverKnight]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Movement Mimicry Elemental Control (24 Points): Can Only Use Power if moving Alongside Someone and Power Is Restricted to Their Maximum (-2). 8 points.

1) Run! 24" Running. Total Cost: 8 points.

2) Leap! 38" Leaping, Accurate, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

3) Glide/Fly! 24" Flight. Total Cost: 8 points.

4) Swim! 38" Swimming, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

 

40 points total.

 

There is the +1/4 advantage 'usable as another movement power' that would allow you to purchase one type of movement power and three more for +3/4. This would have the advantage allowing the power to go into a power framework, which is not possible if it has been built as an EC or MP.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

I've been running over this one in my head for a bit. I thought about a VPP but you really need at least 48 points in the pool and that makes for an expensive power. So then I figured that the only ones that really apply to this power are Running, Swimming, Leaping and Flight. Teleportation and EDM don't fit and Gliding can be simulated through Flight. Swinging 99% of the time requires a focus so I can't see it possible.

 

Movement Mimicry Elemental Control (24 Points): Can Only Use Power if moving Alongside Someone and Power Is Restricted to Their Maximum (-2). 8 points.

1) Run! 24" Running. Total Cost: 8 points.

2) Leap! 38" Leaping, Accurate, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

3) Glide/Fly! 24" Flight. Total Cost: 8 points.

4) Swim! 38" Swimming, (x2 NCM): Total Cost: 8 points.

 

40 points total.

If you're going to go that route, SS, why not use a Multipower instead of an EC? It'd work out to be a bit cheaper yet, and chances are you'd not be using more than one of those Movement Powers at the same time, anyway...

[Super Squirrel]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

If you're going to go that route' date=' SS, why not use a Multipower instead of an EC? It'd work out to be a bit cheaper yet, and chances are you'd not be using more than one of those Movement Powers at the same time, anyway...[/quote']

I was thinking of a Global Guardian House Rule it turns out. The: Can't use Movement Powers in Multipowers.

 

 

Try saying that five times fast.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Looks like I got to this party a bit late' date=' and the suggestion I would have made (UBO [simultaneously'], UAA) has already been made.

 

I think as the Ascended One! I am honored! I lay on the altar unbound, awaiting my fate! :D

 

(sorry, Doc, but I hadn't gotten in a good 'Acsention' riff yet! )

 

 

Buy one inches-based Movement Power -- the most expensive one -- with as many inches of movement as you want to be able to "tag along" with.

 

Then buy "Usable as [another movement mode]" 9 times, naming each of the other 9 Movement modes.

 

That's a +2 1/4 Advantage on the cost of the Movement Power you're using as a base, which more than triples its cost.

 

Well, the rules _do_ sitpulate that in all circumstances, the most expensive way to build something is the correct way. Of course they break that repeatedly, but this is not only 'priced per value,' it's pricey period. My biggest bug with a lot of things is the idea of having to 'prebuy' powers that you, be definition, don't actually have. I think perhaps the rules should reconsider that 'the most elegant' or 'most streamlined' build is more correct, but that's really a personal issue.

 

Your build stands as solid.

 

[qutoe]Dr Anomoly]Now apply a Limitation like "Only to mimic a Movement Power used by another character I'm touching, only up to my max movement or his [whichever is less], and only to travel along with him, taking the same route to the same destination (-2)".

 

I think you're over-taxing your typing fingers; "another character I'm touching" sort of mandates "only to travel along, same route, same destination, etc" as when you stop touching him, you lose the power. Hope your not flying. Or tunneling. Or hooked to one of those "Desolid as tunneling' builds. Ugh.

 

It's still gonna be pretty costly compared to the UBO/UAA method, and it's also going to have an upper end limit (however many inches of Movement you bought) -- which the UBO/UAA method doesn't.

 

Well actually the nekkid advantages _do_ have upper limits, as when you buy them, you must buy them to affect up to X amount of AP. Granted, for the money, you can effectively 'build' for more AP of movement with the same cost as your construct, but there is a limit there. So even if you 'tag along,' it's possible that a really fast character might outrun you.

 

Hmmm.. Perhaps the best bet _would_ be the 'clinging' idea, combined with Desolid-- defined as reproducing SFX of 'borrowed' power (tunneling, etc) and a bait of Life Supports to endure possible space travel, underwater, etc.

 

But then you run into the encumbrance problem. Suppose the other character can't carry you? Though I suppose the Desolid could be redefined as 'giving you effective 0 mass vs the STR of the guy toting you and only to survive travel conditions that do not affect the loaning character....

 

Though I'm falling well out of streamlining and elegance here.'

 

THough I like this build.

 

I like the Naked Advantages combo, partly because I enjoy the simplicity of them, and have not found them to be as over-balancing as many suggest the can--

as Killer Shrike and others are fond of pointing out, game balance is entirely maintained by the GM. If it gets out of hand, it's not the powers in the book; it's the powers in the game.

 

So for my table lower power levels and all that allow 'effectively open-ended' Naked Advantage builds and encourage lower-cost solutions. For those not happy with N-Ads,

 

consider Clinging:only vs. other characters Linked to Desolid: only to mimic sfx of movememnt power being borrowed and reduce effective mass vs. target character. Buy some Life support vs Vac, pressure, temp and you shuold be fine.

 

 

Kind of kludgy, but I'm starting to appreciate it....

 

 

Sorry for all this thinking out loud....

[Intrope]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

How about Extra Limbs, IPE, Usable by Others + STR, No END, IPE, Usable By Others, all with 'only so I can deadhead' as a limitation? After all, if they had a free limb and sufficient strength, they could just schlep you along anyway. So give them an extra limb and sufficient STR!

 

Note: this doesn't work for Teleport, of course.

 

EDIT: it also occurred to me that you could buy the other character as a vehicle and ride them to the destination. But figuring out how to do that made my head hurt, so I gave up on it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

I think as the Ascended One! I am honored! I lay on the altar unbound, awaiting my fate! :D

 

(sorry, Doc, but I hadn't gotten in a good 'Acsention' riff yet! )

Like I'm going to mind!

 

Well' date=' the rules _do_ sitpulate that in all circumstances, the most expensive way to build something is the correct way. Of course they break that repeatedly, but this is not only 'priced per value,' it's pricey period. My biggest bug with a lot of things is the idea of having to 'prebuy' powers that you, be definition, don't actually have. I think perhaps the rules should reconsider that 'the most elegant' or 'most streamlined' build is more correct, but that's really a personal issue.[/quote']That old chestnut has been hauled out and waved around a lot -- goodness knows I've done it myself! But in all fairness, what usually gets left out is the part that says "of all equally valid" builds, you should use the most expensive. Of course, that then leads into 'discussion' about whether or not various builds are "equally valid" or not, doesn't it?

I think you're over-taxing your typing fingers; "another character I'm touching" sort of mandates "only to travel along' date=' same route, same destination, etc" as when you stop touching him, you lose the power. Hope your not flying. Or tunneling. Or hooked to one of those "Desolid as tunneling' builds. Ugh. [/quote']

Doubtless you're right about that; but around here, I sometimes fall prey to the urge to make everything explicit. After all -- we've got a large population of well-experience sharks...ah, I mean, players...living in these waters, and at the first sign of weakness, some of them will go right for the "rules lawyer" maneuver...

 

But that does bring up another issue. What to do about movement modeled by using something other than a Movement Power -- like the Desolid you mention?

 

And what if (as Super Squirrel mentioned) the Movement is bought through a Focus?

Well actually the nekkid advantages _do_ have upper limits' date=' as when you buy them, you must buy them to affect up to X amount of AP. Granted, for the money, you can effectively 'build' for more AP of movement with the same cost as your construct, but there is a limit there. So even if you 'tag along,' it's possible that a really fast character might outrun you.[/quote']

Quite right...and that's what I meant to say, but just as there's "many a lip betwixt cup and lip", so is there between brain & keyboard.

 

Or, as we say, a case of PEBKAC. Whoops!

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Well' date=' the rules _do_ sitpulate that in all circumstances, the most expensive way to build something is the correct way. .......................[/quote']

 

So we could build it as a short range explosion energy blast that only does damage for KB purposes against the character, continuous, uncontrolled....erm....maybe not....

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

what usually gets left out is the part that says "of all equally valid" builds' date='[/quote']

 

There's a part that says "equally valid?" Then why does EDM come up so cussed much?

 

-- we've got a large population of well-experience sharks...ah, I mean, players...

 

Nice! Subtle. I like that.....

 

some of them will go right for the "rules lawyer" maneuver

 

To be at all times separated from the "lawyer rules" maneuver, of course.

 

 

But that does bring up another issue. What to do about movement modeled by using something other than a Movement Power -- like the Desolid you mention?

 

Forgive me; I was having one of my 'vocabulary moments I've mentioned before; I was trying to build around words I had blanked on.

 

It would have been more appropriate to have phrased it "only to allow passage through similar mediums as 'tagged' character," but, as I said.... Sorry; it happens some times-- very awkward in many cases....

 

In this case, the 'movement' is provided entirely by clinging to the tagged character of course; there is no seperate movement power.

 

That's also why I suggested the Linked. Per the rules, when Powers are "linked," they are a single new power-- in this case, we have built the mechanic for the power that allows 'borrowing' or duplicating a movement power without actually robbing the 'donor' of the power. If you're feeling really frisky, Link the Life Support as well, though I think there's a Link Limit by the book (so I suggested buying it separately).

 

Though I suppose a longer build featuring Aids, Succors, that transfer power construct Steve mentioned in some supplement that gives you other powers and perhaps a coupld of naked Advantages all strung together might serve as well.

 

{Ignore that last; mental exercise.}

 

And what if (as Super Squirrel mentioned) the Movement is bought through a Focus?

 

The the powers are in the Focus. Like an amulet or braces or mustache comb. Whatever. I might be missing something, but I don't see who that does much more than reduce the cost of the construct by upping the chance of losing the power. Please--- what have I overlooked? :thinking:

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

So we could build it as a short range explosion energy blast that only does damage for KB purposes against the character' date=' continuous, uncontrolled....erm....maybe not....[/quote']

 

Actually, I'm thinking that every single power should thus be built as:

 

Major T-form vs entire universe to T-form it into the Alternate Dimensional universe where the desired affect happened.

 

I might recommend Continuous, cumulative, and extra time. Lots. Combat may be slowed.

[ghost-angel]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Sounds like a Mimic VPP only to mimic others movements. That's what I would do.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

I once had a character that had the following power.

 

x2 Mass on Teleport, Usable by Another, -0 Lim: Only to negate the penality of taking me along.

 

That was almost as fun as...

 

Stops Teleportation bought on STR. "Nope, you're not going anywhere."

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Sounds like a Mimic VPP only to mimic others movements. That's what I would do.

 

Honestly,

 

I thought that had been suggested before. My original idea (naked x naked) was an attempt to avoid having to 'prebuy' a lot of points without actually getting an appropriate level of return power.

 

The second construct was simply a counter-offer for those not as disposed to Nakeds as I am.

 

But an appropriately limited VPP would work fine.

 

Though I have to say that the more I look at it, the more I like the clinging/desolid construct, as it is effectively open-ended, thus allowing a 'match' to any range or speed of movement, modifers and all. It avoids a points-enforced velocity cap by simply making the character an actual passenger.

[ghost-angel]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Honestly,

 

I thought that had been suggested before. My original idea (naked x naked) was an attempt to avoid having to 'prebuy' a lot of points without actually getting an appropriate level of return power.

 

The second construct was simply a counter-offer for those not as disposed to Nakeds as I am.

 

But an appropriately limited VPP would work fine.

 

Though I have to say that the more I look at it, the more I like the clinging/desolid construct, as it is effectively open-ended, thus allowing a 'match' to any range or speed of movement, modifers and all. It avoids a points-enforced velocity cap by simply making the character an actual passenger.

I had been suggested, and seemingly went past without comment. So I resuggested it.

 

I've no problems with a UBO/UAA combination really, I just think it's kind of a clunky concrtuct in this case. The Mimic Movement VPP seems much cleaner to me. But I'm crazy.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

No, not at all.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they are all perfectly valid builds. It's just that having already run across a large number of reasonable builds, I kept up the exercise for my own personal interest-- trying to construct a truly open-ended device that would allow the character to 'tag along' under any circumstance, regardless of points, etc.

 

I'm going over-board; not the other way around.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

If you go the Clinging route, you're probably going to have to either buy Affects Desolid or Affects Physical World on it, depending on just how you're using the combo to model things.

 

And even if you're Desolid, I don't see anything in the write-up for Desolid that says your mass changes. (In fact, the rules about still falling while Desolid would seem to indicate that your mass does remain the same.) This means you'd be a burden that would have to be hauled along, possibly slowing down the person using the movement power. It might be advisable to buy enough STR to lift your own mass, UBO, Only to support you while you're Clinging to the person, Linked to Clinging.

 

The the powers are in the Focus. Like an amulet or braces or mustache comb. Whatever. I might be missing something' date=' but I don't see who that does much more than reduce the cost of the construct by upping the chance of losing the power. Please--- what have I overlooked? :thinking:[/quote']

I was thinking that some of the power builds suggested might run into problems or odd results if the movement power in question had been bought through a focus.

 

Consider extra inches of Running bought as OIF Rollerskates.

 

If you use the UBO/UAA combo -- what happens? You need the Focus in order to use the power, but there's only one Focus (the skates being worn by the person you're "tagging") and they're OIF to boot.

 

What happens?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

Let me state for the record that I don't like this power idea. I think it is too open and I really need to hear why the character in question gets this power.

 

Hmmm.

 

Has anyone thought of doing this with Clinging.

 

...

 

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Or EDM?

 

*runs and hides*

[Duke Bushido]

Re: "Tag Along" movement power

 

And even if you're Desolid' date=' I don't see anything in the write-up for Desolid that says your mass changes. (In fact, the rules about still falling while Desolid would seem to indicate that your mass [i']does[/i] remain the same.)

 

D'oh; forgot ----

sometimes the problems with House Rules is after fifteen years or so, you forget they're not the book rules. We model Desolid differently. Though honestly, there's really nothing that says your mass _does_ stay the same, only that gravity affects you, and apparently you are at least more dense than is air. Nit-pickish; let it go, Duke.

 

Point conceded, as is the point I somehow wiped out about "Affects Solid" on Clinging (you are already aware of how my group works more SFX than mechanics; another confusion of House Rule and book Rule....).

 

I was thinking that some of the power builds suggested might run into problems or odd results if the movement power in question had been bought through a focus.

 

Ah! gotcha!

 

Hmmm.... "Hey look at that! Free foci!"

 

no, nice as that would be....

 

Possibly that "+5 points for x2 foci", again UBO? Need not be UAA, unless your pretty sure he's not gonna loan it to you after you pull it out of your pocket and hand it to him

 

Or perhaps this is just a power best for modeling 'natural' powers after all....

 

 

Consider extra inches of Running bought as OIF Rollerskates.

 

If you use the UBO/UAA combo -- what happens? You need the Focus in order to use the power, but there's only one Focus (the skates being worn by the person you're "tagging") and they're OIF to boot.

 

I have this image of Foxbat leaping astride the hero Skate Man, piggy-back fashion, spurring him onward.....

 

Wow. That was great......

 

The mechanic is harder-- now you need a naked Adder, as mentioned above, but I think we all know where that's going to end up.....

 

But even then, you'd need a pretty interesting way to produce the additional focus (other than running to your Ford dealer and buying one, of course).

 

Though the old rebuttal: "What am I supposed to, s*&)^) one?!" comes to mind......

 

Not as a good idea, but as parallel for the dillema. How does he get one, because we don't want him 'fashioning one from his own byproducts,' as it were.....

 

Hmmmm.....

 

 

 

What happens?