Final Sanity Rules

[i3ullseye]

Ok, thanks to everyone who hlped me settle on my final rules for Sanity. again, the game I will be using these in will be at the end of WWI, and leading into WWII era, and will be Cthulhu based. Then wacky Nazis were after soem pretty funky occult stuff... and soemone has to stop them from succeeding. Panzers are easier to fight than Shuggoths any day.

 

So here are the basic rules I will use..... and I would love more feedback.

 

Going Mad

HERO system sanity for Cthulhu campaigns.

 

The idea behind these rules is to be as invisible to the players as possible, and as easy as possible for the GM to handle as can be. To this end, they are very vague in actual rules, but can easily be adapted to the specific character or situation as the need arises.

 

The basic concept is that when one comes into contact with the unknown, they realize WHY it is never meant to be known. Each brush with chaos leaves a mark on the viewer, and the more the understand the true nature of what is out there, waiting eons to swoop in and obliterate us like the insignificant beings we are to them, the weight of this realization becomes too much to bear.

 

The human mind has a defense mechanism, a barrier against this sort of collapse, and that defense is denial. Even the most direct evidence can be explained away by the human mind… as a gas pocket, or chain lighting, or just another species of squid that got too mangled in a fisherman’s net to identify. But some know otherwise, they know the truth. And the darker that truth, the darker the mark left on their psyche.

 

The Slow Transformation

 

And that’s exactly what this madness is, a slow transformation. In game rules it is a 1 pip Major Transform with gradual time that affects EGO instead of BODY. Easy enough, and we don’t need to go into the details of how it is built even, because at its root it is really a plot device. There are 2 questions we need to answer however.

 

First question is what do we roll? The simple answer is an EGO roll, but that just scratches the surface of the issue. This EGO roll will be modified by a few factors, and these modifications are what really adapts this mechanic to each and every encounter. The 3 things that impact this role are the basic awareness of the chaos on the part of the observer, the general aura of the event or item witnessed, and the current sanity state of the observer.

 

Understanding Evil

 

Each and every detail that a character knows about evil will bring him closer to understanding it. By that same token, it will also bring him more madness for this knowledge. To this end, the EGO roll will be penalized based on a few things. Every 5 points of INT above 10 will give a -1 penalty to these EGO rolls… so a 15 INT is a -1 penalty, and the human maximum of 20 is a -2 penalty. These penalties do NOT round up, so a 14 INT is still no penalty on the roll.

 

For each campaign you will need to define a set of key skills that add to this penalty also. Often they will be knowledge skills, like Cthulhu lore, or perhaps AK and PS skills regarding the occult. The skills that trigger this may change with the campaign and the character also. For example, a scientist may know physics, and that is of no detriment to him. But the day he experiments and realizes that String Theory allows dimensional openings to the great old ones… and that these forms exist in every streetlight in his neighborhood… NOW that physics skill counts against him. For every 3 skills known apply a -1 to Sanity EGO rolls.

 

Looking Into Darkness

 

When witnessing evil, a good rule of thump is to make the roll at a -1 penalty for each 50 active points of the evil, and this one IS rounded up. So as you create your creatures, just note that a 233 pt Yuggoth is a -5 roll creature. Each roll is made during the first encounter with each creature or item, or each very traumatic reappearance, but the characters need not roll continually for the same set of circumstances.

 

In your campaign you may also decide that certain powers or attributes lead to some creatures being more horrific than others. You should certainly add circumstantial modifiers as well. Seeing a cultist with gills sedated on a medical table is one thing, but seeing them in a back alley eating an infant is another matter entirely, and you should adjust accordingly. Normally this will lead to a penalty anywhere from 0 to -3.

 

Also, some creatures may be more directly damaging to the viewer, and in this case you may assign more than the normal 1 pip of insanity to the character. I would also keep this reasonable, with the vast majority adding 1 pip, and only a great old one themselves adding a full 3 in one viewing.

 

Fractured Egos

 

Each failure of the EGO roll will add 1 pip to the insanity of that character. On the surface, this doesn’t impact them that much, but it does accumulate. Your campaign may have ways to clear this insanity, but it should be very hard to do. Gaining it however will be relatively common for your players if you are keeping them ‘occupied’. And as it builds, it makes it harder to resist future terrors.

 

As this insanity builds, the character gets a -1 to his EGO roll for each 5 points accumulated. This DOES round up, and it does so immediately. So from 1 to 5 Insanity causes a -1 to all EGO rolls to resist future insanity. Once they hit 6 points, now their rolls are at a -2. This will tend to cause a slippery slope effect for those with stronger wills. The higher your EGO, the longer you can resist insanity. But as those points accumulate, the harder each roll becomes.

 

Cause and Effect

 

So what happens next? What does this build up of insanity do? After the EGO has been doubled by points, they all go away. Seems easy enough, but they are replaced by giving the character a permanent 5 pt disadvantage, often Psychological but sometimes Physical. Depending on the circumstances, you may also want to offset this with about 3 points of an advantage somewhere, but this needs to fit the theme and the situation.

 

As an example, say an investigator finally goes mad while trying to find a resolution to a massive rat infestation. With homeless and children’s remains found, and rats by the thousands, he finally comes face to face with a large rat like humanoid eating an old man. His mind snaps with what he sees, and he goes over that final edge.

 

As he hits double his EGO, you then wipe his insanity points out completely, and start all over. But now he has a 5 pt fear of rats. They haunt him in his dreams, and he hears their scratching in the walls even when no one else hears a thing. As a bonus, he has a +1 to all hearing perception rolls now, but he is always on edge listening for the slightest squeak or scratch, and never knowing when he may awake to find himself to be the next meal.

 

Lastly, once someone has gained this first psychosis, they also permanently have a -2 on all future Ego rolls against insanity.

 

Gradual Decay

 

Insanity takes place in 3 major stages. What we have described is the first stage, but each following stage is identical. The only difference is the ‘reward’. Once a character has gone through this process a second time, again you wipe out their insanity, but now they gain a 10 pt disadvantage. If you DO give a balancing reward however, it is still best to keep it around 3 point’s worth.

 

Now that they are at the 2nd stage of this insanity they get a -3 on all future rolls to resist insanity. If they go through this entire process again, they gain a 20 pt disadvantage, and will be at -4 for every sanity check thereafter.

 

They really shouldn’t make it much farther than this. By this time if they aren’t Byahkee food, they should be committed.

 

Documenting the Dementia

 

One final note, the players should NEVER make their own rolls for this. On a separate sheet, write down a few key things about each character. Write their EGO roll down, and write down their EGO itself. Then calculate the current penalty to their roll and write that down also. Then track their insanity points on this same sheet.

 

Yes, I suppose in theory there are things that could add a bonus when making these sanity checks, thought for the life of me I can thing of none! But if you are kind hearted, and generous and benevolent (also WEAK!) you MAY want to also list anything your players characters have that help them resist this. I assume it will take virtually no space however.

 

You track it, you make their rolls, you know whether they gain that point or not. The only time they will know that it has overcome them is when you tell them what disad to write on their sheet with the label Class I Insanity.

 

Like the idea of bonuses to this roll, I assume in some fairy tale lands there might be ways to reduce these insanity points. If this is the case in your overly sensitive and PC world, then you will want to keep the progress on that side of the equation secret also. Really, the impending doom of the entire campaign will benefit by you being incredibly stringent about the mystery surrounding the sanity scores.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Hm... looks interesting. You'll have to report how it works out in play as it goes along.

[Edsel]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Looks good. Working up a good sanity system for Cthulhu Hero has been something I have thought about from time to time. Thanks for posting it.

[zornwil]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I only glanced through, but bookmarked for later reference. I like how you put this together, cool! Shall rep when I can!

[EverKnight]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

At first glance it looks workable to me. All the negative modifiers on the EGO roll mean that they will fail more often than not but this is countered by the number of failures required to gain a disadvantage. So a character with an OK EGO of 12 will have to fail 24 times, which should be at least 30 encounters. How many rolls do you see a character making in a session?

 

On the penalty based on INT I would have gone with rounding off in the same manner as for calculating skills based on INT, i.e. 12 is a -0, 13 is a -1. This way the penalty to the EGO roll for knowing too much increases at the same as the bonus to skills for knowing more.

 

As a further thought, how about temporary insanities if a character fails a set number of rolls in a short space of time? For example a character fails three rolls in rapid succession; they could then acquire a disadvantage equal to the next one they are heading for (5pts to begin with). The disadvantage goes away when the character has a chance to rest and gather their thoughts.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I like these rules better than the old CoC game rules. It seems much more like a lingering risk rather than an impending plummet. Impending plummet is fine for roller coasters and fiction books, but playing a game with a character who is quickly doomed is not much fun, unless the game is Paranoia.

[zornwil]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Well, I think the plummeting style works for 1-4 session "campaigns" and that's likely where CoC's strengths are, as they do come closer to the Lovecraft short story angle. I3ullseye's version is definitely first and foremost an excellent HEROese version but also probably, as you are saying, better for a longer-term campaign.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I disagree with keeping the compensating advantages at 3 points the entire way.

 

That would just leave me really frustrated. I would see my character growing progressively weaker and weaker, making him helpless in the face of what is coming. That would just piss me off.

 

Even if I couldn't kill the Old Ones, I would certainly think I can take down their minions.

 

So, I would prefer a increasing compensating advantage for each level of insanity (of course the insanity should always be of a higher value), so by the time my character is ready to "go out," he might be a frothing madman with a complete disregard for his own safety and health, and thus is capable of fairly impressive feats of strength. He has translated all his fear and madness into rage at these beasts, and will go down destroying as many as he can. Strike a little bit of fear into THEM for once.

 

To me, that would be a very satisfactory way for my character to die.

 

I'm not a huge fan of "Humanity stands no chance" sci-fi.

 

That's why I never liked A Fire Upon the Deep . Too pretentious.

[i3ullseye]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Thanks all.

 

I see the roll being needed 2 or 3 times per long session. At first, they may not roll at all for a session or two, as this will be a long term campaign and build up. But as they get more immersed in the muckety muck, then things start becoming apparent at a more accelerated pace. Real fun will be things they thought were mundane all along have a sinister origin underneath.

 

As for the penalty for INT versus the Skills. I think that being Smart allows you to understand the complexity of things a bit more keenly, but if that intellect is never pointed toward the truth you will never find it. The skills however are direct pointing toward the truth. If you have KS:Cthulhu Mythos... you are going to have a minus. But I didn't want the round off to be too aggressive for INT since essentially everyone would have -2 in most games, since they would have roughly 18 INT.

 

As for the bonuses scaling up... well.. this is Cthulhu... you are SUPPOSED to get a sliding impending dread. Your psychosis should climb while any benefits do not. Now as a GM, you can certainly balance this as you see fit. Not to mention some of these things may be bought off if you allow it.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I don't mind going crazy.

 

But, I don't want my character to become ineffective. Then he wouldn't be any fun to play. Because I couldn't DO anything.

 

That's how I MIGHT feel.

[zornwil]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Yeah, but in this genre, that ineffectiveness is highly likely, period. Horror relies on the reality of the likeliness of being ground down, either in shocking horrible steps or bit by bit. One of the reasons for CoC's popularity is its ability to replicate that, and its one of the things that more heroic games - like HERO - require some tweaking to replicate because heroic games at their core aren't intended to do that, intrinsically.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I've never really liked Cthulu because of the 'going mad' rules, which I can understand for creatures from beyond, touched by an infecting evil, but also they tend to apply to 'relatively' mundane things like finding a body, or a grisly part of one, which might make paricularly wobbly individuals go off the deepend, but most people will just throw up and get on with their lives.

 

The rules that you present seems coherent and sensible within the system though, and my only concern would be that they might be a little bit bookkeeping intensive for the GM. It could drive you mad....

[Edsel]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Yeah, the whole idea of your character being doomed to eventual death or insanity pretty much disuaded all of the players around here from wanting to play Call of Cthulhu again.

 

It may, in a small way, be partially responsible for my failure to interest the gang in Pulp Hero as well. The only experience that any of them has had with the Pulp era was from the occational game of CoC. This could have subconsciously made them associate the 1920s & 30s with weak ineffective characters. The given reason for not wanting to play Pulp Hero is lack of interest by all but me in the Pulp Era.

 

I have used some of the CoC stuff in modern era games but not the really powerful stuff (only things that the characters could destroy). No sanity rules were used for any of that.

[Bartman]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I love it. Simple and beautiful.

 

That said. This really made me chuckle.

When witnessing evil' date=' a good rule of thump[/quote']

In a horror campaign you always need a good rule of thump.

[Black Rose]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

I've never really liked Cthulu because of the 'going mad' rules' date=' which I can understand for creatures from beyond, touched by an infecting evil, but also they tend to apply to 'relatively' mundane things like finding a body, or a grisly part of one, which might make paricularly wobbly individuals go off the deepend, but most people will just throw up and get on with their lives.[/quote']

And even if they "go on with their lives", there's a good chance that, unless they confront the issue and make some kind of peace with it, they're still going to be just a little bit twitchy about the event.

 

Example: my grandfather told me that he got the (rather large) split in his left index fingernail from being bitten by a rabbit (true). Since then, I've always been more cautious than strictly necessary when rodents of any kind sniff me, since I "know" they're going to bite me. I learned a few years ago that my grandfather was actually provoking the rabbit at the time of the bite, and that rabbits (and other rodents) aren't all out to get me. Doesn't matter; I still refuse to get too close. I'd rather be bitten by a dog than a rodent.

[zornwil]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

"I'd rather be bitten by a dog than a rodent" Words to live by!

 

[Mister E]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

Bullseye, have you thought about using Classes of Minds in your Cthulhu campaign? For instance, a Character who's mind has been totally lost to the horrors of reality could be considered shifted to the Alien catagory of class of minds, giving him advantages (-3 vs. all ECV Attack Rolls, and -10 vs. all EGO Effect Rolls) to Mental Attacks normally meant to target meer clueless humans... who are still groping blindly in the darkness of their existential denial.

 

As a DM, I would gift this for free.

[i3ullseye]

Re: Final Sanity Rules

 

hehe, I already have them planned to be listed as Cat I, Cat II and Cat III, based on which level of disad they have earned. Right now my plan is that some creatures wont even cause a Class II or higher to blink. So, I have some of that planned on the creature side of things, but I am going to be a bit hesitant and see just how fast all this works first.

 

Another thing about the comment that people see things, throw up, then move on. That couldn't be farther form the truth. PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and other ailments liek this require years of therapy for some people. There were mroe people outside the greater New York area who went in for psychiatric help after 9/11 than there were in New York City per capita. More people had long term repurcussions just watching it on TV than those who witnessed it.

 

Why?

 

Well, if you have ny background in trauma response, you find that there needs to be a level of resolution for most people. and with an event like this, there was none for those who saw it on TV, over and over, wearing on their psyche. For the locals, things got cleaned up, salvage was hauled out, reconstruction started. They could put a finality to the event and move on.

 

All this really spills over into Cthulhu, because if you are doing your job as a GM, what they see is only a hint of what the entire truth is, but they never get to resolve that whole dark truth.