Astral Form as Duplication

[nexus]

I don't think I like this construct and here is my reasoning. In Hero you pay for advantages. Duplication is the cost structure for paying for the advantage of having two or more form to work with at once. Generally the sfx of Astral Projection is that your soul, spirit, Ka, Anima, whatever leaves your body and wanders about. Your body is completly inactive and vulnerable until you return to it and merge with it.

 

So...what advantage are you getting out of having two forms? Leaving your physical body behind seems to be nothing other than a sfx, and a limitation is it can be attacked, stolen, possesed, etc while your soul is out and about. You can't even rapidly switch back and fourth between the two bodies in "traditional" astral projection, you have to physically return to your body at whatever speed you can muster. You don't really have two forms. You have one form and hinderance in that your other body is present, helpless and can be attacked or mucked with. So why use Duplication?

 

Honest question, as I don't see the reasoning. It seems to be taking one part of the sfx too literally "There's more than one of "you"" and using that to pick the proper power. Or am I missing something important?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

I have no idea if you're missing anything... I don't like Dup as "Astral Projection" - no sir not one bit.

 

But then I'm of the mind that anyone can astrally project and thus - it's a 0 Point Special Effect of the Game to be used appropriate to the story.

[APE]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

I've always thought astral form should be done with a veriant of the AI rules, because you have no physical atributes, and should only be affected by and or use mental abilities.

[Utech]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

Clairsentience works well in many instances. Just add a Limitations for

• your body being left behind,
  
• certain people being able to perceive your Astral form,
  
• your Astral form able to take damage.

If you think you'll be doing a lot of combat in Astral form, you might want to go with some sort of Invisibility + Flight or Teleportation + Desolidification and then add a Limitation for leaving your body behind.

[OddHat]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

It's not a great build.

 

I think the reasoning was that your Astral Form should be a true body, able to do anything your physical body can do. It may be on the Astral Plane, but there are plenty of stories where Astral Bodies physically manifest, and others where Astral forms reach through to the material world while remaining Astral. There are even stories where co-location occurs, in which case Astral Form is Duplication.

 

One way of looking at it is to say that Astral Form is a linking SFX between many powers, including Clairvoyance and Mind Scan.

 

Here's how I usually treat it:

Astral Projection: Clairsentience (Sight, Mental And Hearing Groups), May be used to target Ego and LOS powers, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; +3/4) (110 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (May be targetted by Ego and ADSO powers; -1), Blackout (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Physical Body is Helpless; -1/2)

 

Other advantages and limits can be used for fine tuning.

 

I'd like to see AP given its own custom mechanic from the ground up.

[JmOz]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

Personaly:

 

I like Multiform personaly, but Clarisentience is a close second...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

It really depends on the desires of the player and purpose of the ability for me when deciding how to build Astral Projection. I suppose I'm in the minority who like the Duplication idea. In fact, except for the Ranged Recombine on it, I'm happy with the build in the rulebook. Multiform is a close second though. I feel either of these are wonderful mechanics for a "traditional" astral projection ability. Clairsentience is good is all you do is look at the physical world and nothing ever happens on the astral plane, and Desol can work if you want a bit more interaction, but also if nothing happens on the astral plane.

 

In some campaigns, I use EDM for astral projection. The same limit you'd put on Multiform or Desol, Leaves Body Behind is a must, of course, but if a lot happens in the Astral Plane it's sometimes easier just to treat it as another dimension.

 

Most of the time I just combine Duplication and EDM. The Dupe can get kinda expensive with all of the "required" powers an astral form should have though. Especially if it should also have all the abilities of the physical body as well.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

I suppose everyone will have different interpretations of how a "real" Astral Form should function, and what kind of Powers/Modifiers would be appropriate. Even in the source material we have variations between Western occultist Astral Forms, Eastern mystic Astral Forms, comic-book Astral Forms, etc. The Duplication approach has built-in assumptions, and if you accept those you have no problem. I can see why that wouldn't work for everyone, though. Personally I've always loved the Clairsentience approach first detailed in Mystic Masters for the comic-book variety, but again that's trying to duplicate specific genre conventions.

 

 

Here's how I usually treat it:

Astral Projection: Clairsentience (Sight, Mental And Hearing Groups), May be used to target Ego and LOS powers, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; +3/4) (110 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (May be targetted by Ego and ADSO powers; -1), Blackout (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Physical Body is Helpless; -1/2)

 

Oddhat, is that targetting Advantage for Clairsentience that I highlighted an official one? If so, where is it detailed and how much is it?

[OddHat]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

Oddhat, is that targetting Advantage for Clairsentience that I highlighted an official one? If so, where is it detailed and how much is it?

 

Saddly, no. It's a 10 point custom adder. In its defense, example powers that do use Clairsentience for targetting are scattered here and there in the books; the adder just takes something from GM's permission land and costs it out.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Astral Form as Duplication

 

I use a similar Adder that Oddhat uses, but I simply call it Targeting (really, I just use the Targeting Adder that any Sense can take and say that's how it works). In addition I also require Clairsentience be versus the Mental Group.

 

It's far from legal. Such a thing requires GM permission. Technically, according to the rules, all Clairsentience needs is GM permission to target Mental Powers with it. No adders or modifiers special senses. Just permission.