Simplification of Combat

[Agent X]

So, you want to simplify combat?

 

Step one: Get rid of speed - make everyone buy a certain minimum speed and ignore it.

 

It will take a little fine tuning: for example, haymaker would land on the end of the "round".

 

Step two: No rapid fire - make people buy autofire to do that stuff.

 

Step three: No free recoveries - You wanna recover, you gotta rest.

 

Step four: No added damage from velocity. You wanna simulate the standard speedster move by - you buy some hand attack. The cool thing is the "Balance Police" don't have to worry about high movement so much anymore.

 

Radical Step five: use a killing attack formula for normal damage, just cap the max damage at x4 stun and the minimum damage at x2 stun.

 

So, anyway, that's what I got right now.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Step three: No free recoveries - You wanna recover, you gotta rest.

If that were to become the standard, I'd want END to be recalculated, so that most characters could still last an entire combat without spending actions resting.

[austenandrews]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Or allow resting with DCV.

[Gary]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

This idea could work. But characters would have to be radically rebuilt. Certain archetypes (such as the high dex high spd low def MA or Speedster who aborts a lot) would become unworkable.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

This idea could work. But characters would have to be radically rebuilt. Certain archetypes (such as the high dex high spd low def MA or Speedster who aborts a lot) would become unworkable.

Oh yeah. Just something I thought of spurred on by what I think people like about simpler systems.

 

Speedsters would have to buy more autofire attacks or bigger attacks and more movement at the least

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Or allow resting with DCV.

Maybe a 1/2 recovery?

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

If that were to become the standard' date=' I'd want END to be recalculated, so that most characters could still last an entire combat without spending actions resting.[/quote'] Intuitively, it's got to work off of 1:5 or 1:10 or 1:20, etc. - so, without big changes I guess you'd move it to 1:20?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Cap defenses at 5 and STUN at 10 - that'd speed things up a bit.

[austenandrews]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Maybe a 1/2 recovery?

Did the "combat recovery" ever make it into 5E or 5ER? It's certainly been common enough over the decades.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Did the "combat recovery" ever make it into 5E or 5ER? It's certainly been common enough over the decades.

I don't think so, and none of the folks I game with have ever brought it up. Ah, independent invention, after the fact, is my middle name. You should see how crowded the text is on my business cards.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I've been seriously thinking about the universal speed number for a while. I'm not running now, but I'm beginning to like the idea the more i thinkk about it.

 

Also, I'm a proponent of eliminating END altogether.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

This idea could work. But characters would have to be radically rebuilt. Certain archetypes (such as the high dex high spd low def MA or Speedster who aborts a lot) would become unworkable.

 

I thought you thought they were already unplayable?

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

So, you want to simplify combat?

 

Step one: Get rid of speed - make everyone buy a certain minimum speed and ignore it.

 

It will take a little fine tuning: for example, haymaker would land on the end of the "round".

 

Step two: No rapid fire - make people buy autofire to do that stuff.

 

Step three: No free recoveries - You wanna recover, you gotta rest.

 

Step four: No added damage from velocity. You wanna simulate the standard speedster move by - you buy some hand attack. The cool thing is the "Balance Police" don't have to worry about high movement so much anymore.

 

Radical Step five: use a killing attack formula for normal damage, just cap the max damage at x4 stun and the minimum damage at x2 stun.

 

So, anyway, that's what I got right now.

Congratulations! You've almost created M&M. Now all you need to do is cut-out all that slow dice rolling and counting and add Hero Points and you have it.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Congratulations! You've almost created M&M. Now all you need to do is cut-out all that slow dice rolling and counting and add Hero Points and you have it.

I think rolling a few dice to figure body and a die for stun multiple is pretty simple so I really don't see the need to go with a single roll.

 

As far as Hero points - I've seen plenty of house rules for that. Not everybody likes Hero Points. For some it destroys the drama. Me, I'm ambivalent.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Intuitively' date=' it's got to work off of 1:5 or 1:10 or 1:20, etc. - so, without big changes I guess you'd move it to 1:20?[/quote']

Sounds fair to me.

[archermoo]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Congratulations! You've almost created M&M. Now all you need to do is cut-out all that slow dice rolling and counting and add Hero Points and you have it.

 

I like rolling dice and counting them up; it is quick and easy. And I've been using Hero Points in HERO for MUCH longer than M&M has existed. For the stuff in the initial suggestion, not personally interested. I like the way the rules are already written. Combat moves along quite nicely already. Certainly faster than GURPS or RMSS, which are pretty much the only other RPGs I've played much in the last 10 years or so. Looked at a bunch of other rules, but none of them were particularly appealing to me.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I like rolling dice and counting them up; it is quick and easy. And I've been using Hero Points in HERO for MUCH longer than M&M has existed. For the stuff in the initial suggestion' date=' not personally interested. I like the way the rules are already written. Combat moves along quite nicely already. Certainly faster than GURPS or RMSS, which are pretty much the only other RPGs I've played much in the last 10 years or so. Looked at a bunch of other rules, but none of them were particularly appealing to me.[/quote'] I'm not much for the rules changes either. I just posted it as a response to some of the desires some others have expressed.

[archermoo]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I'm not much for the rules changes either. I just posted it as a response to some of the desires some others have expressed.

Certainly, and they look like a reasonable set of changes for people that are interested in such things. I wouldn't have commented at all, but since I felt the desire to reply to MitchellS, I figured I should throw my $.02 in on the actual topic of the thread too.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Here's an optional "maneuver" of sorts I play with on occasion to speed up some combats...

 

Hail of Mookfire

 

If the character (s) are being attacked by group of minions , conduct the Minion attack as a single attack per character... calculate OCV normally then add appropriate multiple attacker bonuses, and treat the attack as autofire to determine how many times the player gets hit. If the Minions are already using autofire weapons, then they get 1 hit per 1 they hit by.

 

It speeds up the big uneven fights by a lot. Tends to favor the characters until their DCV gets dropped, then watchout...

I haven't really used it for HTH, but I don't see why it shouldn't work.

 

has on occasion resulted in the slo-mo action sequence wherein a door opens and a suprised supporting character is suddenly cut down in a hail of gunfire

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I like rolling dice and counting them up; it is quick and easy. And I've been using Hero Points in HERO for MUCH longer than M&M has existed.

The point I was jokingly making was that most of the changes Agent X listed were ones already made in M&M; it seemed as though he was just trying to remake Hero into M&M.

 

As far as Hero Points, their mother was the old Marvel game's karma system. I actually prefer M&M's "extra effort" rules over the Hero Points. Most of the functions of M&M's Hero Points can easily be simulate by using Pulp Hero's HAPs system [something I have used since 5E came out].

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

The point I was jokingly making was that most of the changes Agent X listed were ones already made in M&M; it seemed as though he was just trying to remake Hero into M&M.

 

As far as Hero Points, their mother was the old Marvel game's karma system. I actually prefer M&M's "extra effort" rules over the Hero Points. Most of the functions of M&M's Hero Points can easily be simulate by using Pulp Hero's HAPs system [something I have used since 5E came out].

 

First game I recall ever seeing an actual Hero Point system was the old James Bond 007 RPG. I could be mistaken tho... I really don't know which came first.

 

I never payed MSH much mind... I had Champions, after all.

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

First game I recall ever seeing an actual Hero Point system was the old James Bond 007 RPG. I could be mistaken tho... I really don't know which came first.

 

I never payed MSH much mind... I had Champions, after all.

I never played Marvel either but it was good source material for the conversion systems.

[archermoo]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

The point I was jokingly making was that most of the changes Agent X listed were ones already made in M&M; it seemed as though he was just trying to remake Hero into M&M.

 

As far as Hero Points, their mother was the old Marvel game's karma system. I actually prefer M&M's "extra effort" rules over the Hero Points. Most of the functions of M&M's Hero Points can easily be simulate by using Pulp Hero's HAPs system [something I have used since 5E came out].

 

Oh I got it, I just generally chime in when people talk about getting rid of die rolls. I like rolling dice, and counting them takes almost no time, so I at least have no interest in reducing the number of rolls needed, and certainly not in getting rid of them entirely.

 

And RE: Hero Points, I'm guessing there are a multitude of systems that use that and similar names that have little or no relationship with each other. I've never seen the rules for MSH, nor the rules for M&M's "extra effort", so while I can't say that my Hero Point system bears no resemblance to them, I can certainly say that it was not based on either of them. Particularly since I tailor it to each campaign I run.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

The point I was jokingly making was that most of the changes Agent X listed were ones already made in M&M; it seemed as though he was just trying to remake Hero into M&M.

 

As far as Hero Points, their mother was the old Marvel game's karma system. I actually prefer M&M's "extra effort" rules over the Hero Points. Most of the functions of M&M's Hero Points can easily be simulate by using Pulp Hero's HAPs system [something I have used since 5E came out].

I was trying to point out how easy it is to get the sort of flow some people claim they prefer and keep the powers, skills, and such basically the same.

[Gary]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I thought you thought they were already unplayable?

 

 

Not unplayable. Simply uncompetitive compared to other archetypes unless the other archetypes have some sort of GM imposed limits and/or house rules.