Simplification of Combat

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

"They can have my dice when they pry it from my cold dead fingers."

[Superskrull]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

"They can have my dice when they pry it from my cold dead fingers."

 

So, I take it you don't wanna play the Amber RPG?

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I was trying to point out how easy it is to get the sort of flow some people claim they prefer and keep the powers' date=' skills, and such basically the same.[/quote']

I don't disagree with you. I just think that when you change that much of Hero it's no longer Hero. There's no point in emulating another game when you already have the other game you can be playing, IMO.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Hail of Mookfire

 

If the character (s) are being attacked by group of minions , conduct the Minion attack as a single attack per character... calculate OCV normally then add appropriate multiple attacker bonuses, and treat the attack as autofire to determine how many times the player gets hit. If the Minions are already using autofire weapons, then they get 1 hit per 1 they hit by.

Now that's an interesting idea! I'll have to try it sometime, especially for fights that are meant to just be an annoyance rather than an actual challenge. Repped!

 

Edit: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AmadanNaBriona again." Will you take an IOU?

 

 

bigdamnhero

"Smoke me a kipper, Skipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I don't disagree with you. I just think that when you change that much of Hero it's no longer Hero. There's no point in emulating another game when you already have the other game you can be playing' date=' IMO.[/quote'] I disagree. I don't think very much of Hero was changed by those modifications.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I disagree. I don't think very much of Hero was changed by those modifications.

...and it's not like there aren't plenty of other reasons to prefer Champions over M&M, even with these changes.

 

 

bigdamnhero

“What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?â€

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

...and it's not like there aren't plenty of other reasons to prefer Champions over M&M, even with these changes.

 

 

bigdamnhero

“What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?”

I'd play official Champions or the simplified thing I came up with first long before I'd consider M&M.

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I'd play official Champions or the simplified thing I came up with first long before I'd consider M&M.

Unfortunately the ratio is about 20 to 1 against you.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Unfortunately the ratio is about 20 to 1 against you.

I don't know where you get your numbers but if all you're going to do is post on the Hero Boards about how cool M&M is, maybe you should consider just not posting here.

 

One of my buddies is the infamous Champsguy, who really does not like Steve Long, Darren Watts, or Dan Simon - but even he thinks that what you are doing is wrong.

 

I would not go post on M&M's dime and constantly seek converts and tell everyone how much more I like HERO. I especially wouldn't distort the reasons why I like HERO which you've done on at least one thread.

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I don't know where you get your numbers but if all you're going to do is post on the Hero Boards about how cool M&M is, maybe you should consider just not posting here.

 

One of my buddies is the infamous Champsguy, who really does not like Steve Long, Darren Watts, or Dan Simon - but even he thinks that what you are doing is wrong.

 

I would not go post on M&M's dime and constantly seek converts and tell everyone how much more I like HERO. I especially wouldn't distort the reasons why I like HERO which you've done on at least one thread.

That's funny, I see Champsguy on the M&M boards all the time.

 

I don't seek converts. You're just too sensitive. I like Hero. I have nothing against Hero. What I have is a dislike of people who put Hero on a pedestal and tell us all how much every other game sucks.

 

You're the one posting here how to change Hero to be more like M&M and I'm the one posting that you shouldn't change Hero but let it be itself lest it lose its identity. Who's trying to convert who here?

 

And there have been no distorted reasons as to why I currently like M&M better. You just refuse to accept that my tastes have changed over the last 24 years; something even Zorn attempted to point out to you several times, but you chose to ignore in your zeal to bash a non-Hero lover [as you perceive me to be].

[Lord Zod]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I'm not a big fan of M&M, myself. There are some good ideas in there, but on the whole I found the rules to be a bit unbalanced. There were just to many holes for my taste. And I just hated that whole Damage Save thing. But to each his own.

 

As for these proposed changes, I can certainly see how they would speed up combat. For people who have a problem with slow combats it would certainly be handy. I was once stupid enough to gm a weekly game for 10 players, and some combats were a nightmare. One giant shoot out lasted about 3 phases of game time and 4 hours of real time.

 

On the other hand, I personally find these changes to be a bit too radical for my tastes. I like the hero systems tactical approach to combat, with all its manuevars and options, and some of the things you suggest to cut are a big part of that. And the concern about Hero losing too much of its identity if you change it that much is really a genuine concern for alot of players. Running a combat with those rules just wouldn't feel like Hero to me.

 

I like that "Hail of Mookfire" rule, I think I might try it some time.

[Gary]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Here's an optional "maneuver" of sorts I play with on occasion to speed up some combats...

 

Hail of Mookfire

 

If the character (s) are being attacked by group of minions , conduct the Minion attack as a single attack per character... calculate OCV normally then add appropriate multiple attacker bonuses, and treat the attack as autofire to determine how many times the player gets hit. If the Minions are already using autofire weapons, then they get 1 hit per 1 they hit by.

 

It speeds up the big uneven fights by a lot. Tends to favor the characters until their DCV gets dropped, then watchout...

I haven't really used it for HTH, but I don't see why it shouldn't work.

 

has on occasion resulted in the slo-mo action sequence wherein a door opens and a suprised supporting character is suddenly cut down in a hail of gunfire

 

 

Nice idea. Makes Defense Maneuver well worth purchasing.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

That's funny, I see Champsguy on the M&M boards all the time.

 

I don't seek converts. You're just too sensitive. I like Hero. I have nothing against Hero. What I have is a dislike of people who put Hero on a pedestal and tell us all how much every other game sucks.

 

You're the one posting here how to change Hero to be more like M&M and I'm the one posting that you shouldn't change Hero but let it be itself lest it lose its identity. Who's trying to convert who here?

 

And there have been no distorted reasons as to why I currently like M&M better. You just refuse to accept that my tastes have changed over the last 24 years; something even Zorn attempted to point out to you several times, but you chose to ignore in your zeal to bash a non-Hero lover [as you perceive me to be].

No, I'm talking about how you exaggerate, like all those wonderful products for M&M which turned out to include many PDF products that amounted to some extra optional rules.

 

And the funny thing is I took a gander over at M&M after someone else pointed out that you were blustering a bit and noted a thread where folks were discussing their concerns about how shoddy many of those Superlinks products were and hoping that guidelines for Superlinks products would be tougher.

 

I don't much like it when someone tries to sell something and they don't give me the whole story.

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

No, I'm talking about how you exaggerate, like all those wonderful products for M&M which turned out to include many PDF products that amounted to some extra optional rules.

 

And the funny thing is I took a gander over at M&M after someone else pointed out that you were blustering a bit and noted a thread where folks were discussing their concerns about how shoddy many of those Superlinks products were and hoping that guidelines for Superlinks products would be tougher.

 

I don't much like it when someone tries to sell something and they don't give me the whole story.

And no one here discusses how shoddy some of the current Hero products are?

 

You're over-exaggerating, which is your norm.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I don't know about the James Bond RPG, but for the record, I first saw Hero Points, or Action Points, or whatever they were called, in a 1st ed. D&D module, loosely based on the Conan movie(s) that had just come out. IIRC, the module was called "Conan Unchained." This was in the early '80s.

[Mentor]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

It occured to me that having gone from the simpler or more abstract combat of D&D to the more complex but much more versitile and character rather than dice controlled combat in Hero is a case of "been there, done that."

 

Simplicity isn't everything its cut out to be.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

A few thoughts on the previous posts:

 

Hail of Mookfire! I love this idea! I will definitely try this out.

 

On the topic, my prefered method for speeding up combat is to cap defenses and REC so that it only takes a few hits to put a character down and they don't keep getting up. It also means that the Mooks have a chance at actually hurting a hero. Also when a Mook takes BDY they are automatically down unless they are drug-crazed or something.

 

I first saw Action points in the James Bond RPG, which at the time seemed like a good idea at the time, but it is one more thing to tally and I have such chaotic notes already that I don't need any more to keep track of. If characters want to alter dice rolls, let them buy Luck and use the optional Luck rules, or maybe even grant everyone a couple dice of Luck per session for this purpose. This could speed up combat too, since you would more likely make critical shots work.

 

Finally, pardon my blinding ignorance, but what is M&M?

 

___________________________________________________

The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Finally' date=' pardon my blinding ignorance, but what is M&M?[/quote']

M&M is Mutants & Masterminds. The superhero RPG published by Green Ronin.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Ah, many thanks. I am slowly figuring out all the abbreviations; one more for my mental dictionary.

[archermoo]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Unfortunately the ratio is about 20 to 1 against you.

 

I'm curious as to where you get the figures from that show 20 times more people play M&M than play HERO. Care to share?

[MitchellS]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

I'm curious as to where you get the figures from that show 20 times more people play M&M than play HERO. Care to share?

Already covered in another thread about the relative costs of printing full-color versus black & white. Do a search.

 

Of course having a good friend who works for Alliance doesn't hurt either.

[archermoo]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Already covered in another thread about the relative costs of printing full-color versus black & white. Do a search.

 

Of course having a good friend who works for Alliance doesn't hurt either.

 

Ah, so then sales through a single distributer then. Gotcha.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

And no one here discusses how shoddy some of the current Hero products are?

 

You're over-exaggerating, which is your norm.

No, people complain about the product. The problem was that you didn't give me a very good picture of what was going on in M&M land.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

It occured to me that having gone from the simpler or more abstract combat of D&D to the more complex but much more versitile and character rather than dice controlled combat in Hero is a case of "been there, done that."

 

Simplicity isn't everything its cut out to be.

No, it isn't. But some people don't like the speed chart and some folks want to assess results more quickly.

 

Personally, I think one of the biggest balancing problems for Champions is the move through and move-by, especially the move-through. It makes it very difficult for some GMs to allow characters to have high combat movement and a high strength, or simply really, really high combat movement - and that is a break in simulating comics.

[Agent X]

Re: Simplification of Combat

 

Already covered in another thread about the relative costs of printing full-color versus black & white. Do a search.

 

Of course having a good friend who works for Alliance doesn't hurt either.

Your theory concerning the color books seems like guesswork to me, based on knowing maybe half the story about how businesses make decisions.

 

And I don't know your friend from Alliance.