Roter Baron Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Hmm...I just realized in 20 odd years' date=' I have only ran one published adventure, the Rev M part of [i']Shadows of the City[/i]. I have purchased almost all of them but never used 'em. Same here. Most were nice to read, but I always had the impression that the adventures were just super-fights with a rough outline about what I as gm have to do to make themn work - not not very detailes at that ("the heroes could asked around - or make a Detective Works Roll - 2" - from the times when Detective Works, Acrobatics and Swinging made your character "skill-based"). But I liked "Target Hero" (1st adventure I ran using Hero), Hudson City Blues (unfortunately the campaign ended in the middle of things - it's a good campaign-ending adventure though) and Demons Rule. By the way: I though I had all adventure published for Champions - I don' know Shades of Black. Is it a pdf? And I don't agree with some people's comments on "Bad Medicine for Dr. Drugs": I gmed it and it was quite a fine adventure. But I didi not run it as is, but used it in a Drak Champions campiagn with a high emphasis on the drug aspect and got rid of the super-characters. It wasn't a cakewalk and quite grim as I remember - certainly not goofy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure And I loved Glen's art. Ditto. Easily my favorite early Champions artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure I've used Deathstroke as a starting adventure - the opening scene is a reasonable gathering point. The endgame breaks the villain team up a bit. If your Heroes are outclassed, break them up a bit more so the heroes can pick a few off at a time, rather than fight most of them at once. I've also used the V&V modules Death Duel with the Destroyers and Island of Dr. Apocalypse, but you have to be prepared to tailor the villains to the heroes' power levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure I would say that Shades of Black is a good starting adventure. It has an interesting backstory, it has an opening sequence which can tie it to another NPC team, and has an epic scale which allows the players to really feel as though they've accomplished something by the end. As for Pre-5E adventures, I like To Serve and Protect, The Coriolis Effect [both of those adventures give you hooks and NPCs associates you can use for future adventures], and Deathstroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure As I've said in the past, I've never read Zodiac Conspiracy, as it was claimed by one of the other GM's in our group, but the way it played out it was EXTREMELY frustrating to a team of 400-450 point experienced Supers. Frustrating enough to drive otherwise good roleplayers to fits of homocidal rage that ended with the scenario being aborted due to our aquired first responce being to use the greatest amount of force possible everytime Zodiac showed their heads. Out of curiosity, what in particular was frustrating about them and/or the adventure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Out of curiosity' date=' what in particular was frustrating about them and/or the adventure ?[/quote'] I would also wonder if [since AmadanNaBriona never read the adventure] perhaps the issue is not so-much against the adventure and characters but rather how the GM chose to run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure By the way: I though I had all adventure published for Champions - I don' know Shades of Black. Is it a pdf? Yes, by Allen Thomas, author of DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, Teen Champions, The Valdorian Age and several other cool Fifth Edition books. It features the Black Paladin and greatly expands on his background as described in Conquerors, Killers And Crooks, as well as adding three new villains, some nice artwork and several very good color maps. Most people who have read it agree that it's some of Allen's best work. SOB is a 97-page PDF available for download from the e-books section of Hero Games's Online Store for a very reasonable $12.00 US, or $14.00 on CD. You can view some free samples from the book here. One of the maps alluded to in the text of the adventure was left out, but can be found for free here on the website; it's a good example of the general quality of maps in SOB. You can view that map via this webpage. BTW Herr Baron, it's very nice to have you contributing to the boards again. You were missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Out of curiosity, what in particular was frustrating about them and/or the adventure ? Railroading, mostly. Can't find the bad guys, can't EVER catch the badguys, can't keep the badguys down, and massive repeated player stompdowns. pretty much, the Zodiac scenarios were interspersed in with our ongoing campaign, and went like this... Zodiac appears somewhere doing something. We show up, get our a$$es handed to us. Rally the troops, fight back, eventually beat dwn a few Zodiac members through cussdness, unexpected tactics and teamwork. Zodiac completes its objective, and all the badguys teleport away (even the downed ones). Beat Head against wall searching for non existant clues. repeat... substitute new characters to replace the casualties. Get Annoyed Start presetting VPP"S and the like with decidedly not cool but book legal constructs specifically designed to inflict massive harm on Zodiac members next time they arrive, Repeat. Discover that even killing members of Zodiac won't keep them down. Scream. Nuke the site from orbit. (ok, so we didn't do this last one...) I would also wonder if [since AmadanNaBriona never read the adventure] perhaps the issue is not so-much against the adventure and characters but rather how the GM chose to run it. It might have been a GM issue. The GM in question was a GREAT storyteller, GM and a toal genre feind, IF he was working with his own material or wingng it, but had a tendency to try and stick to the schedule on published scenarios rather rigidly and get flustered if things weren't going they way he expected them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Nuke the site from orbit. (ok' date=' so we didn't do this last one...)[/quote'] That's how we lost Albuquerque in that adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure That's how we lost Albuquerque in that adventure. mwuhahahahahahahaha Glad to see I wasn't the only one. The only reason my Cap homage characeter stayed out of the morgue was a GM handwave... after that, when our "main" hero team (roughly our equivilant of he avengers got involved) my character (the team leader, a former streetlevel vigalante turned team tactician/gageteer went sniper and busted out the BFG with scads of FW in a computer targeting scope. The gun occupied about half of his 100 point VPP. NO way I was going in close with a NCM skill monster after seeing the shining all american supersolider put on a slab in less than a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Railroading, mostly. Can't find the bad guys, can't EVER catch the badguys, can't keep the badguys down, and massive repeated player stompdowns. pretty much, the Zodiac scenarios were interspersed in with our ongoing campaign, and went like this... Zodiac appears somewhere doing something. We show up, get our a$$es handed to us. Rally the troops, fight back, eventually beat dwn a few Zodiac members through cussdness, unexpected tactics and teamwork. Zodiac completes its objective, and all the badguys teleport away (even the downed ones). Beat Head against wall searching for non existant clues. Just skimmed over the Zodiac Conspiracy and that's pretty much how it's supposed to work. There's some good stuff there, but not very strong adventure-wise. It might have been a GM issue. The GM in question was a GREAT storyteller' date=' GM and a toal genre feind, IF he was working with his own material or wingng it, but had a tendency to try and stick to the schedule on published scenarios rather rigidly and get flustered if things weren't going they way he expected them to. [/quote'] The Zodiac Conspiracy is really more of a sourcebook than an adventure module. Most of the book covers the personalities, plans and tactics of the villains and all that stuff is excellent. All 5 adventures are covered in the span of 6 pages and are really more intended as seeds with the expectation that the GM will cover the details. Also all the adventures are event-driven (Zodiac shows up, PCs react) there are no guidelines for PC investigations between scenarios (which is odd because one of the members of Zodiac is a famous rock star with a public ID). A big downside is that "super-science" is used for two very annoying Deus Ex Machina (Machinae ?) that are really unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Just skimmed over the Zodiac Conspiracy and that's pretty much how it's supposed to work. There's some good stuff there, but not very strong adventure-wise. The Zodiac Conspiracy is really more of a sourcebook than an adventure module. Most of the book covers the personalities, plans and tactics of the villains and all that stuff is excellent. All 5 adventures are covered in the span of 6 pages and are really more intended as seeds with the expectation that the GM will cover the details. Also all the adventures are event-driven (Zodiac shows up, PCs react) there are no guidelines for PC investigations between scenarios (which is odd because one of the members of Zodiac is a famous rock star with a public ID). A big downside is that "super-science" is used for two very annoying Deus Ex Machina (Machinae ?) that are really unnecessary. Kinda what I figured. Railroading + Deus Ex Machinae = not a real good first scenario. Good Writeups + detailed character motives= good suppliment for experienced GM's who are accustomed to filling in the blanks and keeping it fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure My favourite would have to be Wings Of The Valkyrie as it offers significant roleplaying potential that other scenarios don't. After that it would have to be the one from Champions Presents that involves the AI computer and robots - can't recall the title but it has plenty of meat for the harrassed GM. If you don't mind the cheese factor The Great Supervillain Contest is a primo slice of classic superhero fun. Zodiac Conspiracy lacked a certain something for me. Great artwork and about 50% of the villains are great conceptually but the other 50% missed the mark. All IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure My favourite would have to be Wings Of The Valkyrie as it offers significant roleplaying potential that other scenarios don't I was going to bring that up, but as it is rather hard to find..... That adventure led to one of the best Roleplaying moments in my games. A good first adventure to me - dealing with the monster in METE - the PCs meet to defeat it, and meet and interacte with them. Circle and METE - old one. I have fond Memoriest of the Great Supervillian contest, but don't know if it is a good starting adventures. Atlas Unleased was how I kicked off my last campaign. It's a blast to play. Throwing Stars and Bars from Heroic Adventures Vol 1 was always a fun play - Elvis Robots from different stages in Elvis life as part of the bad guys.... lighthearted but fun. Dark Knights from Heroic Adventures 2 was a fun mystery low powered adventure suitable for investigators. The time guy from whichever Champions Presents worked well for me, but I merged it with Horrorworld from Champs 3-d and it became a really nasty adventure. Oh and once the game is going Foxbat Unleashed is amazingly fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure I just had a very old school memory... "What Rough Beast..."from adventures club way back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure I just had a very old school memory... "What Rough Beast..."from adventures club way back in the day. That stupid thing maxed it's claws on one my characters - instant GMs option. Ugg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure That stupid thing maxed it's claws on one my characters - instant GMs option. Ugg. Yeah, it was one Grade-A premium nasty, waznnit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Yeah' date=' it was one Grade-A premium nasty, waznnit?[/quote'] Yeah. After that incident it was a threat/joke in the game "Okay - do want what I have planned or shall I pull out the Rough Beast?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Yes, What Rough Beast is IMHO the best one-shot "dungeon crawl" adventure published for Champions. It also happens to be available on the Internet, with full stats (updated to Fourth Edition HERO), maps, and illustrations: http://www.patric.net/morpheus/hero/beast.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Yes' date=' [i']What Rough Beast[/i] is IMHO the best one-shot "dungeon crawl" adventure published for Champions. It also happens to be available on the Internet, with full stats (updated to Fourth Edition HERO), maps, and illustrations: http://www.patric.net/morpheus/hero/beast.html I loved that one too. Has anyone mentioned Challenges for Champions yet? There's good fodder for beginners in that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Zodiac Conspiracy lacked a certain something for me. Great artwork and about 50% of the villains are great conceptually but the other 50% missed the mark. All IMO... My recollection of ZC was that they relied on the pretty colour artwork in the middle of the book (and this was, IIRC, Hero's only foray into glossy clour interior illustrations) instead of writing good material. This is one reason I generally support "substance over form" - give me a good, well-written supplement over a pretty, glossy package with nothing backing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure My recollection of ZC was that they relied on the pretty colour artwork in the middle of the book (and this was' date=' IIRC, Hero's only foray into glossy clour interior illustrations) instead of writing good material. This is one reason I generally support "substance over form" - give me a good, well-written supplement over a pretty, glossy package with nothing backing it up.[/quote'] Presentation and content do not need to be at opposite ends of the balance-beam. It's no harder to write a good content "pretty" book then it is to write a good content "ugly" book. The writing is the same. It's what's done with the writing once it's completed that makes the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure The thing with any adventure is that some people are going to like it and some are going to hate it. No single adventure can capture the hearts and minds of the entire gaming community. Most of the old adventures are liked due to the nostalgia of them [you remember playing them 20 years ago when life and gaming were simpler]. Champions Battlegrounds is 1,000 times better then Island of Dr. Destoyer, but I bet more people had fun playing through IoDD then CB. That's because in our current time comics are factured into sub-genres, and that makes the comic-gaming fans fractured as well. We all have differing expectations now about what comics really are. Some players want blood and guts, others want realism and intensity, and others heroic idealism. One adventure can't please everyone any more, which is why they don't sell as well as they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Presentation and content do not need to be at opposite ends of the balance-beam. Absolutely It's no harder to write a good content "pretty" book then it is to write a good content "ugly" book. The writing is the same. It's what's done with the writing once it's completed that makes the difference. This comes down to scarcity of resources. Assuming equal cost, the obvious choice is a high quality product in a high quality package. In many cases, however, the maker is choosing where to direct limited resources, and an upgrade to glossy colour art, for example may mean a downgrade to how much we pay the writers. That can lead either to less content (make it 48 pages instead of 64 to pay for the colour art), or to a lower quality product (hire those writers - they aren't as good, but they'll work cheaper). Other things could also get cut (well, no budget left for playtesting - call it "1st Ed" and let the gamers test it. We'll use their fixes when we publish "2nd Ed"). Of course, we'll all say "I want the same quality and quantity of content on colour glossy paper", but that means the price has to go up - at which point, maybe we don't want it quite so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Re: Best published adventure Of course, we'll all say "I want the same quality and quantity of content on colour glossy paper", but that means the price has to go up - at which point, maybe we don't want it quite so much. The Zodiac Conspiracy was published during the Iron Crown years. At the time, the glossy paper confused me too (I don't recall the module costing much more than previous Hero books); I just figured that it was either an experiment and/or that I.C.E. had some special deal with the printers. The glossy paper thing was never repeated for any Hero books after that, so I guess it wasn't the success they (I.C.E./Hero) hoped it'd be. Although, there were glossy inserts on the Fuzion-related Champs projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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