Queer heroes

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I'm suprised. Were this anyone else, I would say you are overlooking water to a fish. When you start watching for it, there are subtile ways that Straights announce "I am heterosexual" a dozen times a day.

 

Of course, this is going to be exxagerated / not be subtile when you have a Straight player playing a Gay character. Or a closeted player playing an openly Gay character. Or a Male player playing a Female character. Or a White player playing a Black charcter.

 

For example, look at the now embaressing Blacksploitation period in Marvel, and to a lesser extent DC, in the seventies, with White writers trying to write Black characters.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that really these days male players playing female characters seem to be very, very restrained, to the point where more often they err on the side of not trying to act female so as not to bludgeon the character too badly with misunderstanding, erring on the side of allowing for what might be more masculine traits.

 

PS - and then again, for female supers in a male supers world/male-dominated world, that doesn't seem much off a probable mark, really, to me.

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I usually allow players to play characters outside of their own ethnic/gender group. With mature players, the worst that usually happens is that the character ends up played with non-matching identity elements ignored. Less mature players can be annoying (the classic white male player whose female characters are all hot promiscuous lesbians bugs me), but I don't keep players like that in the first place.

 

I did once have one gay male player who I eventually asked to stop playing stereotypically straight male or female characters. In a similar situation today, I'd probably ask the player to leave the group.

 

With convention games, I haven't had any problems with players role-playing stereotypes in a negative way, but I've had lots of depictions of characters where the ethnicity, gender, etc. are just ignored.

I tend to ignore gender with Kannae, partly because I feel she's of a somewhat strained relationship to humanity anyway.

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Oh, on this topic, we had a player in the Reservoir Dogs game who was picking up a female character. I was a bit nervous RPing-wise when he was first going towards a more hot, promiscuous type, but by the time he got into her backstory, before play, it worked out fine and his RPing of her was really good. He only concentrated on her gender-identity a couple times. One I thought was great, whether stereotypical or not I think it worked well, where very early in the game 4 of the male PCs are at each other's throats, almost literally. One guy has his knife at another's throat, the other 3 have their guns out pointed at each other. The 5th of the males has his gun out cautiously, just covering in general in case. She's in the van right nearby, not having gotten out during what precipitated this. I ask what she's doing, the player says, "I'm just amused by this testosterone-fest."

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I've got a grand total of two indigenous Australian supers in my Champions universe. Both are basically straight lifts from a novel written by an indigenous friend of mine.

 

I mostly leave them in the background, however, because they raise themes I don't particularly want to investigate in my game. Since they are NPCs, I can do that.

 

I probably wouldn't let a non-indigenous player play an indigenous character in my game. Then again, I am playing a character in a PBEM whose ancestry is extremely mixed. But the idea is that he is effectively culturally "white". In other words, I ducked on the issue.

Hmm, well, time to fess up that I play Blazing Arrow Who Talks to the Old Mule From the Western Sea. He's a suburban kid who happens to be half-Native American but neither parent was raised that way (the Native American parent raised entirely off the reservation and to "blend in", so total WASP training in life). He went to try being with his people, with ridiculously naive notions of that. They, given this, wanted nothing to do with him. He took huge doses of peyote for "revelation", which sort of happened, in that his mutant powers manifested and of course he was tripping.

 

So he believes himself a Native American representative but he is a weird mixture of pagan stereotypes, Native American stereotypes, and just plain off-kilter good-naturedness.

 

I would have to say, if a Native American joined the group (well, this campaign isn't active anymore, but if it were) I'd certainly want to check this out with him. But it seems to be carried off reasonably well as the character is sufficiently dim-witted in his way and well-intentioned, as said.

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I find myself creating a lot of female bricks and martial artists, probably because of my early dating habits.

 

My Black characters have tended to be martial artists, gadgeteers and mystics. The Lion of Shaolin is probably the most arguably stereotypical, but then he's a direct tribute to Jim Kelly (Enter the Dragon and many more films).

 

It's fairly hard for writer to create characters of a different ethnicity, sex or sexual orientation without being accused of stereotyping (and sometimes those accusations are accurate). I try to do solid research into a culture before depicting a character from that culture, and to make all of my characters fully three dimensional. In the end I don't think that we as writers can do much more.

I didn't realize the Lion was black.

 

And in our Reservoir Dogs game, with one character who early on is revealed as gay, another character (very appropriately, a drug abuser) had somehow, despite several comments and this even being CENTRAL to the gay character's storyline (he was in love with the big boss' son, the big boss they were sent to kill), completely missed it but we didn't realize it until at the end he says, "Huh, you mean he's gay?"

 

And the obligatory, "Not that there's anything wrong with that." (From Seinfield, I mean)

[OddHat]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I didn't realize the Lion was black.

 

Hm. Maybe he isn't stereotypical enough.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I have this incredible temptation to write up a lesbian superhero called "Stonewall" and just never explain it.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Queer heroes

 

You received interest. Don't anticipate a "huge call" when floating something like this on a gaming board' date=' but remember that for each poster interested there must be some number of others as well out there. [/quote']

And I'm one of them, though my excuse is not checking the boards often enough. As somebody who's played my share of gay/bi characters of both genders with varying levels of 'out-ness,' I'd love to see a resource like this one out there, for my own use and that of others.

[Balabanto]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I should note at this point that it WAS authorial intention in next month's Digital Hero for Calendar Girl and Snow Tiger to be lesbians, but I deliberately left it a little vague so GM's could change it if they wanted to.

 

When Secret Origins II is published, there's no hiding some of the more diverse relationships on that team. Hey, my PC's roleplayed it all, so them's the breaks.

 

I try to encourage positive and negative role models of all kinds when I run Champions, fortunately, I have a mature enough group of people that I actually can.

 

Sometimes, though, this leads to some pretty funny situations.

 

• GM: You see a strange looking man who is apparently composed of blackness with a strange looking stone object that floats bizarrely half in and half out of his chest on the rooftop across from your window.
  
• PC: I teleport there. "Who...or what...are you?"
  
• NPC: I am Obelisk.
  
• PC: Uhmmm....GOOD CHOICE!
  
• PC #2: Mike, you just kicked in my Overprotective of Women disad. I leap in front of the mentalist and shout "Stay Away From Her..."
  
• Me: The window shatters and you leap across the roof, landing in front of Emerald.
  
• Obelisk: "You really have misunderstood me, haven't you? I wouldn't do a thing to her, but you're rather handsome..."
  
• PC #2: Ooops...

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I have this incredible temptation to write up a lesbian superhero called "Stonewall" and just never explain it.

Heh. I would get it primarily because I did a paper on the gay rights movement in high school. I don't know if I would otherwise, maybe because it does come up once in a while, I think I've heard it in discussion, but I can't swear to it.

[Anatosuchus]

Re: Queer heroes

 

OK, this really isn't designed to annoy anyone, and further it's a bit of a threadjack, so I'm perfectly happy to accept "shut up" as a response, but...

 

The original catalyst for this thread was a gay science fiction convention. Can somebody please tell me what one's sexual orientation has to do with science fiction? I like sci fi. I have a sexual orientation. I'm happy to talk, appreciate sci-fi and game with pretty much anyone* whoever (or even whatever, as long as the whatever doesn't mind) they are attracted to.

 

I might have missed an explanatory post, and I notice the OP states this as a hot button for him, so I thought I'd ask. It seems to be that people such as the organisers want both equality and exclusivity - we want access to your club, but you can't come to ours.

 

*Unless they are odious in general, which I will admit can cover a lot of ground especially at a sci-fi convention.

[caris]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Conventions and clubs like this serve a variety of purposes. Usually, such groups do not exclude anyone, but they are focusing a specific sub section of the bigger fandom. It is about discussing works that feature gay characters and themes. It some times covers encouraging people to produce such works. There is also a matter of freedom of self. I do not act with the same level of freedom in the "straight" world that I do in a gay venue. I do not flirt with men that are not friends (or at least known quantities) at Dragon Con (except at parties thrown by gay groups). At a gay venue, I assume that any straight men there are expecting that the possibility that flirting and a pass may happen and are prepared to deal with it in a reasonable manner.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Queer heroes

 

It seems to be that people such as the organisers want both equality and exclusivity - we want access to your club' date=' but you can't come to ours.[/quote']I looked into the gaylaxian con; they explicitly are not exclusive towards heterosexuals at all. I've never heard of any of these types of things being like that. I think these things are partially about feeling more comfortable, and mostly about focus. There's a regular con here in Madison that's very feminist-focused. There's a group here that focuses on historical wargames. I don't feel excluded by them. Non Trek fans shouldn't feel "excluded" by an all-Trek convention, roleplayers by an all-wargame focused con, nor people uninterested in gay stuff by a con with a gay focus.

 

And it sure does make the flirting a lot easier.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Queer heroes

 

So ... the supplement written yet?

[McCoy]

Re: Queer heroes

 

The original catalyst for this thread was a gay science fiction convention. Can somebody please tell me what one's sexual orientation has to do with science fiction? I like sci fi. I have a sexual orientation. I'm happy to talk, appreciate sci-fi and game with pretty much anyone* whoever (or even whatever, as long as the whatever doesn't mind) they are attracted to.

 

I might have missed an explanatory post, and I notice the OP states this as a hot button for him, so I thought I'd ask. It seems to be that people such as the organisers want both equality and exclusivity - we want access to your club, but you can't come to ours.

The subject under discussion at gaylaxian con is alternative relationships in science fiction and fantasy; Storm Constantine's Wraiththu trilogy, the relationship between Aral Vorkosigan and Ges Vorrutyer, the function of the Renunciates in Darkover society, the Secret Identity ans a metaphor for being in the closet, and of course the Kirk-Spock-Bones triangle.

 

Membership is not restricted. Heterosexuals who are interested in the subject matter are welcome.

[Anatosuchus]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Thanks for the responses - this makes much more sense to me now given the theme of the content under discussion at the event. My initial reaction was coming from the point of view of activities which cannot (AFAICT) have a "gay context". For example, being a biker, I have become aware of gay motorcycle clubs and the like which still cause me confusion. I shall now shut up and therefore cease causing excessive topic drift.

[input.jack]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Im sure youve heard "There are no stupid questions".

 

That is patently untrue.

 

But YOUR questions seemed perfectly reasonable and valid ;D

 

 

Is there some problem with people playing characters of other genders? A great many of the characters I play are female, and often of different ethnic or cultural backgrounds than I am. I mean....isnt part of role-playing getting to wander about in other peoples' footgear?

 

In the group I play in, I cant think of a single Player who has not played a character of the opposite gender. Some of our group are bisexual, although most of the group are hetero, but thats never really been an issue. Some of us do a better job than others, especially early on (my first female character I played back in 7th grade, and she was basically identical in personality to the male fighter that preceeded her; she just had a different cut to her mail), but overall we all tend to make characters based on who we want to "be" in the game world, and who we had an idea for.

 

Ive played a number of gay, bi, and straight characters, sluts and virgins, extroverts and introverts, asdists, masochists, and librarians, and so far no one has told me Im doing anything slanderous. In fact, I have been told by several female gamers that I play female characters better than they do. Is this uncommon? I mean, we all hear about the stereotypical "sexist" characters, but do they REALLY appear in actual games?

 

Or have I just been INCREDIBLY lucky in my gaming career?

[OddHat]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I mean, we all hear about the stereotypical "sexist" characters, but do they REALLY appear in actual games?

 

Or have I just been INCREDIBLY lucky in my gaming career?

 

While I'll allow my players to play characters of any background, based on my own experience I'd say you've been lucky.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Steve,

I think you have gotten alot of positive feedback on your supplement idea. Have you decided on whether you or not you will give this a shot? Also, check your PMs, will ya?

[Rapier]

Re: Queer heroes

 

While I'll allow my players to play characters of any background' date=' based on my own experience I'd say you've been lucky. [/quote']

 

Exceedingly lucky.

[zornwil]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I personally haven't seen much trouble at all but then again I hear I am also lucky with groups in general.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Queer heroes

 

I mean, we all hear about the stereotypical "sexist" characters, but do they REALLY appear in actual games?

 

Or have I just been INCREDIBLY lucky in my gaming career?

I haven't had any trouble with that since my old middle-school gaming days.

 

Perhaps ironically, the stereotypes they were painfully imitating were of their own ethnicity and gender.

 

Yeah... that game ended after somebody tried to invent the condom of charming.

 

I'm honestly a little surprised I let it go on that long before finally giving the lot of them enough rope to hang themselves. They did so enthusiastically.

[Balabanto]

Re: Queer heroes

 

Religion can also matter, of course. In Secret Origins II, when you see that, Captain Unity AND Captain Unity II are jewish. So there are always different ways that you can change things, shake them up for your players, etc.