Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

[Robyn]

There's a particular facet of play which I'm thinking may be difficult to convert to HERO:

 

The Shadow.

 

A dark side of the character's psyche, the Shadow is a constant whisper in the ear, able to offer Shadow Dice to enhance the character's abilities, but with the ultimate goal of taking over the character forever.

 

The part that would be difficult to convert is this:

 

In Wraith, your character's Shadow is played by another player.

[Intrope]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Duplication as a Disadvantage, perhaps?

 

Then again, I never really 'got' Wraith. (although any game in which the characters start out even more hopeless than Vampire is an achievement of sorts...)

[Robyn]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Duplication as a Disadvantage' date=' perhaps?[/quote']

 

The trick is that the Shadow is never a separate physical part of the character, really, nor does it exist apart from the character's own mind . . . it's basically the equivalent of letting another player RP your evil twin subconscious.

[SirViss]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

The closest I can come to what is implicated by the "Shadow" personna would be a combination of a Psych Disad for when it is whispering suggestions into the character's ear and Multiform with Accidental Change for when the character looses control to the "Shadow".

 

I think the Multiform would be necessary for the simple fact that IIRC the Shadow can have different Psych Disads, and powers.

[pointyman2000]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

This might not be what you were looking for exactly but:

 

I'd make it as a "Free" Disadvantage with a corresponding "Free" Power

 

0 Pts - Psychological Limitation: Character submits to Shadow in moments of severe emotional stress. (Uncommon, Strong)

 

along with:

 

0 Pts - Shadow Boon: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Conditional Power Only works when Character is under the influence of his Shadow (-1/2)

 

0u - Aid Any Characteristic 1d6 (10 Active Points); Conditional Power Only works when Character is under the influence of his Shadow (-1/2)

 

0u - Aid Any Power 1d6 (10 Active Points); Conditional Power Only works when Character is under the influence of his Shadow (-1/2)

 

Essentially in moments of severe emotional stress the player rolls his Psyche Limitation. If he fails, he must act according to he whispers of his Shadow, which is played by anoher player. In return, the player of the Shadow can choose to activate any of the 2 Aids in he Shadow Boon Multipower for the Character.

[pointyman2000]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Gah, beaten to it. Granted my method uses a multipower rather than a multiform but perhaps SirViss' method may be more accurate if the Shadow influence is that severe.

[SirViss]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

I did't want to touch upon the Shadow-boon that a character could take advantage of, since it has been a long time since I even looked at Wraith. Just look at it as a joint effort.

[pointyman2000]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

True enough, both methods will cover pretty much how to best emulate the Shadow from Wraith anyway.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Are we talking about the Shadow being run by another player in the game, or by the GM? If it's the latter case, the Shadow just becomes a GM-played NPC.

 

I don't know a lot about Wraith, but Robert Harrison's conversion appears to build the Shadow as another character which is insubstantial (represented by buying back some of its Characteristics) which shares the Wraith's body. A Wraith has the Disadvantage: Hunted (Watched) by his Shadow: http://surbrook.devermore.net/whitewolf/WODwraith.html

 

In 5E I'd build the Shadow using the Artificial Intelligence rules.

[SirViss]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

As I remember, usually the Shadow is simply a voice that incites the Wraith to give in to some Psych Disads the character probably already has, but under certain condition, it can totally take over.

 

With those caveats, in the original system, it was suggested that the Shadow be played by another player. He could easily play the "voice", but I am sure that the GM could have made his own "suggestions". If the character gave in to his dark side, then another player was suppose to take over the character.

 

I think the suggestion that other players take on the "Shadow" personna for other player's characters was to spread the GM responsibilties amongst the group. It was (probably) to encourage players to contribute to any scene, and involve them in the story. An admirable goal, but I am sure it wasn't to everyone's tastes.

 

Of course, the loss of control of one's character to another player, was probably to emphasise the dark and depressing nature of the world presented by WW.

[Robyn]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

This might not be what you were looking for exactly but:

 

Not quite . . . (I'll note differences below).

 

Essentially in moments of severe emotional stress the player rolls his Psyche Limitation. If he fails' date=' he must act according to he whispers of his Shadow, which is played by anoher player. In return, the player of the Shadow can choose to activate any of the 2 Aids in he Shadow Boon Multipower for the Character.[/quote']

 

The Shadow is a constant part of the character's psyche, always in the background; but, when it takes over, it does so permanently. In the meantime, it can use its Shadow Dice either against or for the character's efforts, at its whim and for its own mysterious reasons, perhaps tricking the character into relying on the extra assistance, only to withdraw its aid at a particularly vulnerable time.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Surbrook's Stuff - WORLD OF DARKNESS HERO (Thanks Susano. Written by Robert Harrison.)

http://surbrook.devermore.net/whitewolf/WODHERO.html

 

The Wraith (Film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wraith

 

Lord Soth, Knight off the Black Rose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Soth

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[pointyman2000]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Not quite . . . (I'll note differences below).

 

The Shadow is a constant part of the character's psyche, always in the background; but, when it takes over, it does so permanently. In the meantime, it can use its Shadow Dice either against or for the character's efforts, at its whim and for its own mysterious reasons, perhaps tricking the character into relying on the extra assistance, only to withdraw its aid at a particularly vulnerable time.

 

Hmm...

 

So that would mean that the Shadow could mechanically be simulated by a Multipower of Aids and /or Drains with the No Conscious Control and Self Only Limitations.

 

The voices in his head would be a Psychological Limitation

 

As for the aspect of taking over, it could either be as SirViss noted, a multiform to represent the same character with a different set of psychological limitations and personality. I'd rule that the multiform would have an activation roll, but would otherwise be permanent if triggered.

[Robyn]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

The voices in his head would be a Psychological Limitation

 

I think it's just the one voice. Whether he listens to it or not, and if so, to what extent he plays along with what it wants, is up to him.

 

Of course, if he becomes addicted to the Shadow Dice, he may let himself be talked into taking a darker path than he normally would . . .

 

As for the aspect of taking over' date=' it could either be as SirViss noted, a multiform to represent the same character with a different set of psychological limitations and personality. I'd rule that the multiform would have an activation roll, but would otherwise be permanent if triggered. [/quote']

 

Sounds good to me.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Where does the permanent come in? The Shadow might hang on for a while, but the only time it takes over permanently is when the character is so screwed up he becomes a spectre.

[Robyn]

Re: Conversion - Wraith, the Oblivion

 

Where does the permanent come in? The Shadow might hang on for a while' date='[/quote']

 

Exactly. Long-term, not "player gets to roll for every new idea the Shadow whispers about".